The Jewish National Anthem

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  • #588244

    Will Hill
    Participant

    G-d is our King,

    Him do we serve

    The Torah is our Law

    And in it we believe.

    And we do not believe in the government of the heretics.

    And we do not care about its laws.

    We will go in the ways of the Torah

    In fire and water.

    We will go in the ways of the Torah

    We will sanctify the Name of Heaven

    #622527

    Toras Moshe
    Participant

    I believe the correct translation is thus:

    G-d is our King,

    We are his servants

    The holy Torah is our Law

    We are loyal to it.

    We do not recognize the Heretic Zionist Regime

    Its laws do not apply to us

    We walk in the ways of the Torah

    In fire and water

    We walk in the ways of the Torah

    To Sanctify the Name of Heaven

    Of course authored by the great Hagoen Rav Amram Blau 60 years ago.

    #622528

    intellegent
    Member

    What’s the tune?

    #622529

    “And we do not believe in the government of the heretics.

    And we do not care about its laws.”

    Ever heard of “dina d’malchusa dina?”

    #622530

    yoshi
    Member

    How does the tune go? 😉

    #622531

    cantoresq
    Member

    I like Hatikvah better. It’s more Jewish.

    #622532

    Jewess
    Member

    I thought it was “Shema Yisrael HaShem Elokenu HaShem Echad”.

    #622533

    Itzik_s
    Member

    BS”D

    Not to be confused with the following which is the anthem of the Ku Klux Karta, a band of clowns who desecrate the above, which is a heiliger niggun written by the tzaddik Reb Amram Bloy ZY”A, by singing it at rallies with sonei Yisroel:

    Ahmadinejad hee malkynee

    Veloi hinynee ovodim

    Hakoiran hakoodoish hee chayaynee

    Veloi aynaynee maaymeenim

    Mekesef shel koifrim anee chayyim, anee chayyim

    Umin hacheckim anee oichlim, anee oichlim

    Bederech harishis nylych, baesh ubamayim

    Bederech harishis nylich, lekabel tashlumim kiflayim!

    Ahmadinejad is our king

    And we are his servants

    The “holy” Koran is our life

    We don’t believe in it

    From money of unbelievers we live

    And from their checks we eat

    In the ways of evil we walk

    In fire and in water

    In the ways of evil we walk

    To get double welfare!

    #622534

    Itzik_s
    Member

    BS”D

    “And we do not believe in the government of the heretics.

    And we do not care about its laws.”

    Ever heard of “dina d’malchusa dina?”


    BS”D

    Reb Amram and his true followers were in E”Y before yenne medine and they accept no aid or even documents from it as they do not recognize it. Don’t confuse them with Hirsch or any other clowns who should be singing my version above.

    As for the tune, it is on a site run by the clowns but please don’t give them any more hits.

    I have a great modern recording of Hashem Hu Malkeinu by Ariel Zilber. If the editor agrees, and since it is in the public domain but no longer online, I will make it available for download on one of my sites and post the link here sometime tomorrow or I will send it to YWN so they can post it for download (which I would prefer).

    And neither the words nor the music of the hymn to prikas oyl malchus shamayim that is played in E”Y are Jewish.

    #622535

    Pashuteh Yid
    Member

    Very funny, Itzik.

    #622536

    Joseph
    Participant

    Give me a break,

    The famous Ran in Nedarim categorically states that Dina Dmalchusa Dina is inapplicable in Eretz Yisroel (as every Yid has a G-d given right to live there.)

    #622537

    Chuck Schwab
    Participant

    Was the anthem originally composed in Loshon Kodesh or Yiddish, by Harav Blau ZTV’L?

    #622538

    mariner
    Member

    joeph, where is the famous ran exactly? i doubt you are quoting it correctly, as if you said such a thing to any of the kings of with yehuda or yisroel, you would have been killed for treason! there has to be more then that.

    #622539

    Joseph
    Participant

    Nedarim 28a

    (Just because you may not like it, doesn’t make the Ran inaccurate.)

    #622540

    Feif Un
    Participant

    Who appointed this as the “Jewish National Anthem”? Isn’t it currently used only by the reshoim who are self-hating Jews?

    Judaism doesn’t really have a “National Anthem”. By definition, a national anthem is for a country – isn’t that what “national” means? Israel has a national anthem. Judaism doesn’t. It can be the anthem for a group (such as Neturei Karta), but it’s not a national anthem.

    If ther e was an anthem for the Jewish people, I like Jewess’s idea – Shema is better suited.

    #622541

    Joseph
    Participant
    #622542

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Feif Un, you can be a nation and not have a country. That was one of the breaks that Reform made with Orthodoxy in the early 1800’s in Germany. They claimed to be Germans of the Hebrew faith, and not a nation aspiring to return to Israel. That’s why they called their synsgogues Temples; they said Berlin was their Jerusalem.

    #622543

    Mayan_Dvash
    Participant

    …so it’s not Az Yashir?

    #622544

    lammed hey
    Member

    When I first saw this thread I thought it was some sort of joke. Now that I see you are serious…

    “A national anthem is a generally patriotic musical composition that evokes and eulogizes the history, traditions and struggles of its people, recognized either by a nation’s government as the official national song, or by convention through use by the people.” (Wikipedia)

    As such, I vote for “Lulay Torascha”. Alt: “Shir Hama’alos Beshuv Hashem es Shivas Tziyon”. 🙂

    They evoke our struggle and hope.

    (Shema is a statement of fact, and does not follow the guidelines)

    #622545

    Itzik_s
    Member

    BS”D

    It was originally composed in Loshon Kodesh – Hashem Hu Malkeynu is the original. Reb Amram ZY”A spoke loshon hakodesh as opposed to “Ivrit”. If you look on the Wikipedia entry for him there is a copy of a food coupon he issued (I guess in place of currency); it is written in laha”k.

    #622546

    “Reb Amram and his true followers were in E”Y before yenne medine…”

    “Yenne medine?”

    Don’t you mean the State of Israel?

    [I’m no Zionist, but I recognize it as a state as much as I recognize the USA as one.]

    #622547

    Itzik_s
    Member

    BS”D

    I refer to it as yenne medine – a state it indeed is (one of Obama’s 60 perhaps considering that it receives so much US aid that it no longer needs at this point), but one that I can’t call by its name as it is a desecration of that name which is a Torah name that also contains one of the names of Hashem.

    #622548

    Itzik_s
    Member

    BS”D

    Indeed, though, this is not the anthem of the Jewish people – it is the anthem of bnei Torah in Eretz Yisroel and a protest song.

    The anthem of the Jewish people indeed could be any one of a number of psukim from Tehillim that can be put to music; the motto of the Jewish people is Shma…echod.

    For the anthem of the frum community in NY, I humbly propose Lipa’s GELT song :-)! Then again, except that it is in Yiddish and acheinu bnei Yisroel who are not of European origin could not relate to it, Sheloi Asoni Goy from A Poshuter Yid could be the anthem of the Jewish nation….at least on Purim!

    #622549

    Itzik_s
    Member

    BS”D

    Indeed, though, this is not the anthem of the Jewish people – it is the anthem of bnei Torah in Eretz Yisroel and a protest song.

    The anthem of the Jewish people indeed could be any one of a number of psukim from Tehillim that can be put to music; the motto of the Jewish people is Shma…echod.

    For the anthem of the frum community in NY, I humbly propose Lipa’s GELT song :-)! Then again, except that it is in Yiddish and acheinu bnei Yisroel who are not of European origin could not relate to it, Sheloi Asoni Goy from A Poshuter Yid could be the anthem of the Jewish nation….at least on Purim!

    #622550

    Joseph
    Participant

    Itzik,

    Are your views of yenne medina prevalent in Chabad?

    #622552

    The Big One
    Participant

    They should sing this heilige niggun in the Yeshivos.

    #622553

    Pashuteh Yid
    Member

    Itzik, you are right that Hatikvah has some problems. Fortunately, I have corrected them, as below, so it is now 100% kosher:

    Kol od balevav pnimah

    Nefesh yehudi homiyah

    Ulfaatei mizrach kadimah

    Ayin ltzion tzofiah

    Od lo avdah tikvateinu

    Hatikvah bat shnot alpayim

    Lihyot meshubadim

    Tachat habavliim

    Tachat haromaim

    Vtachat hayishmealim. (Sing last lines with great feeling.)

    #622554

    Joseph
    Participant

    torahis1, is that what they taught you in your temple? Perhaps you can ask your Rabbi if she can learn it with you again.

    Nowhere have I discussed psak. I teitched a Ran. And the Ran is clear that it holds Yidden are neither chiyuv in taxes nor in Dina Dmalchusa Dina in Eretz Yisroel.

    Incidentally, the way I teitched it is how Rabbi Herschel Schachter teitched it. You can say omg again.

    #622555

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Joseph,

    It is Elul. No need to be sarcastic

    #622556

    Joseph
    Participant

    less, the response was appropriate for the vitriol expressed by the clown.

    Incidentally, the Ran we are discussing is famous for holding that Dina Dmalchusa Dina is inapplicable in Eretz Yisroel. This teitch is not in dispute by anyone.

    In fact, taxation is the primary component of Dina Dmalchusa. And the fact that a Jew is not obligated to pay taxes in Eretz Yisroel, clearly demonstrates Dina Dmalchusa is not binding in Eretz Yisroel.

    This is aside from a whole host of other reasons that Jews are not bound to the laws of the illegitimate zionist regime in the holy land. (Without getting into the contentious specifics, i.e. the 3 shvuos, etc.)

    #622557

    Itzik_s
    Member

    BS”D

    Joseph – yes they are, kind of under the surface, especially since Gush Katif. Our concern is only for Jews living there since the medine is unfortunately a fait accompli; we do not see any significance to the medine and the Rebbe ZY”A was said to refer only to Eretz Yisroel and never even once referred to the medine (I am not sure if this can be confirmed).

    Pashuteh – you forgot tachat haEropeiim tachat haAmerikaim which is the state of yenne medine today.

    #622558

    Joseph
    Participant

    Itzik, Would you characterize Chabad’s position on yenne medina more or less in line with Brisk/Satmar/etc.’s position regarding it?

    #622560

    Joseph
    Participant

    tis1, Your vitriolic bashing of others won’t help you in your attempts to reform the way Klal Yisroel approaches life.

    #622561

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Joseph,

    If what you say is true, then which hospital do you use, who picks up your garbage, what bus do you ride? If it’s assur to “give” to the state, shouldn’t it be assur to take as well? What is the basis for chareidim participating in the political process?

    #622562

    Will Hill
    Participant

    torahis1, why don’t you take your disgraceful comments elsewhere? say to a reform site? you are out of place and out of line here amongst Torah followers. And please change your screen name, as you disgrace it.

    #622563

    Itzik_s
    Member

    BS”D

    I’m no expert on Brisk, and although I very much admire Satmar and Reb Yoilish ZY”A I am not sure that what I know about Reb Yoilish’s position is accurate or just the “pop” version (I would like to learn or at least “go over” Vayoiel Moishe but have never found the time to do so, nor do I have the sefer with me). So I am not really qualified to answer your question. I do know that the Rebbe’s opposition was never formally tied to the 3 oaths and is a continuation of the Rebbe Rasha”b’s viewpoint which is said to have influenced Reb Amram ZY”A and the real Neturei Karta.

    The one difference is that Chabad Chassidim in E”Y try to engage the medine when necessary, such as with educational funding for “kiruv” schools, and pay taxes and are part of the bituah leumi system. That is mostly because the medine does exist and there are six million (?) Jews living there who need to be , and even the worst klipa (the internet, for instance, as well as the medine!) can be converted or at least used for kedusha. I would say in terms of interaction with the medine, we are closest to Ger except that Ger is part of Aguda.

    In any case, I raise no eyebrows when I sing Hashem Hu Malkeinu on Shabbos with friends, and many of Reb Amram’s relatives are part of the core of Chabad in Yerushalayim – at least one Yerushalmi Lubavitcher, now a shaliach on the West Coast, is named Amram for his relative (great-uncle?).

    #622564

    gedalya
    Member

    Itzik s – If I am not mistaken Harav Farkash (of Lubavitch- author of many great seforim e.g. Shabbos Khalacha and more is an einekel through marriage.

    A side point – doesn’t it say that klippos hatmeios cant be nisaleh to kedusha

    #622565

    The Big One
    Participant

    Itzik:

    Its amazing that all the Gedolim opposed zionism (despite hte predictable religious zionists howls that are sure to follow.) This is despite their subtle differences in how to deal with the state once it became fait accompli. i.e. Brisk, Satmar, and the real Neteurei Karta opposed any interaction or cooperation while the Agudah, Chabad, Ger while similarly opposed to zionism felt it prudent to cooperate where necessary or beneficial.

    Do you know if Reb Amram and all the old Yishuv spoke Loshon Kodesh, or whether they oppsed using Loshon Kodesh as an “everyday language” for Divrei Chol, like other Rebbonim?

    #622567

    Itzik_s
    Member

    BS”D

    Yes, Gedalya – Harav Farkash’s son is married to a Blau relative and it is his son who is named Amram. R’Amram Farkash is in either Oregon or Washington IIRC.

    Regarding the klipos hatmeiois and kedusha (and I guess what you are getting at is how it applies to yenne medine), I have a response but I need to check it over before I post it as if I don’t check the sources it will be both rambling and inaccurate. Will try to do so by Sunday IY”H B”N.

    #622568

    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    Well, as I am one of the resident “reshoim” on this website (after all, I do believ in the ultimate good of the “medinah”) and the field has been left open to the ones who woould gladly shake hands with Ahmenidajab and the Hamas leadership, let me just inject some sense in your deranged comments.

    To itzik- IF you are a chabadnik-and I have my doubts about this- you totally misrepresent Lubavitch and their position. You certainly misrepresent the rebbe’s position. He was absolutely, totally in support of Israel ( the name you hate so much).His shlichim are everywhere and have actually fought in wars as soldiers. He was implacably opposed to any “giving back’ territory and considered all of Eretz Yisroel OUR land, UNDER the present government.

    You are either an impostor or an ignoramus (maybe both) but Lubavitch you surely don’t represent, weherever you are now in “Eastern Europe”.Every one of your rantings has absolutely NO backing or source, as you always add : I am not sure if this can be confirmed. it cannot be confirmed because it is a lie.

    To all the other (predictable) medinah- haters: You can write your drivel here as much as you want, we Yidden, who live in our own homeland under our own government, are going “mechoyil el choyil” and, in spite of the many difficulties, are continuing to build a real Yiddishe medinah that will last at “bias goel zedek’ and then we will all dance with Elijahu Hanovih .led by Shlomele z’l and all the other zaddikim as we build a new Bais Hamikdosh! Bimheru bejoenu!

    #622569

    cantoresq
    Member

    led by Shlomele z’l and all the other zaddikim as we build a new Bais Hamikdosh! Bimheru bejoenu

    _______________________________________________________________________________________

    PUHLEASE!!!! Shlomo Carelbach’s music has as much to do with the shirah in the Beit haMikdash as does Led Zeplin’s at the Met.

    #622570

    Itzik_s
    Member

    BS”D

    Rabbiofberlin, thanks for the laugh. The only credit I can give you is that you may have been exposed to the unfortunate “Chabad-lite” nonsense that some New Agers are pitching in the Rebbe ZY”A’s name these days. The shluchim from abroad, including many acquaintances of mine, were sent because the Rebbe ZYA wanted to bring Jews closer to Yiddishkeit. Chabad soldiers serve just as Gerrer soldiers do – to defend Jews, not the medine.

    And don’t forget for one moment that the Rebbe ZYA sent Carlebach packing because of his krum methods of kiruv and low standards – those who add Carlebach to their new-age Chabad-lite (and Breslov-lite) potpourri conveniently forget that fact.

    Re what language Reb Amram spoke on a day to day business, I will ask one of his relatives if he knows as I am not sure. He may have used loshon hakodesh at times because there were actually Sefardi hahamim with whom he had contact and who were part of the old yishuv that opposed the medine.

    Finally, no one, not the small remaining group of real followers of Reb Amram ZYA, or whichever of the Reb Arelach splinters is the most “kanoi”, or even Mishkenos HoRoim supports the five and a half choilim who went to Teheran.

    #622571

    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    cantoresq….I appreciate your insight and comments but your disdain for shlomele z’l and his music has addled your brains….and just to make you happy. shlomo will be joined by yossele rosenblatt and moshe koussevetsky, and your favorite. leibele glanz….

    #622572

    Itzik_s
    Member

    BS”D

    Not just his music but his conduct….

    #622573

    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    As usual, itzik does not respond to reality, but avoids the issues…as I said, you are either ignorant of the facts or distort them deliberately… I do not’ for one moment, believe you that you are a chabadnik. you totally distort reality to suit your own prejudices….

    wherever you are, in your dark eastern european hovel, rest assured that all those chabad-lite, breslov-lite,shlomo-lite ,zionist-lite yidden and others, will continue to grow and grow…to spread torah and yiddishkeit, to bring yidden back to their “bashefer” while you continue your bitter and solitary journey to spiritual oblivion…

    #622574

    Joseph
    Participant

    Itzik,

    Perhaps you can explain why after the last Rebbe zt’l, another one was not appointed – as had been done after all the frierdik Rebbe’s.

    #622575

    Joseph
    Participant

    BTW berlin, Itzik is a rather well-known Chabadnik. He runs several websites that proudly mention his chasidus, a fact that has been mentioned in some press releases regarding his business, and is known in the community.

    #622576

    Itzik_s:

    Here we go – “The State of Israel, The State of Israel, The State of Israel, THE STATE OF ISRAEL, THE STATE OF ISRAEL [Medinat Yisrael]!”

    I’m no Zionist, and at the same time want to slit the NK[VD]’s throat, but I recognize it as the State of Israel.

    Would you rather it be called “The State of Affairs?”

    #622577

    Itzik_s
    Member

    BS”D

    The freaks will continue to grow like an onion as their children frei out one by one, confused as they are and should be by their parents’ mix of a little Tanya, some Likutei Moharan, a bit of Carlebach, crystals, aromatic oils, the ones who we are Grateful that they are Dead and who knows what else! I remember these freaks all too well from my days in Crown Heights.

    No, I am not a “Chabadnik” unless you happen to be speaking E”Y slang which is not my language of choice even when visiting E”Y – I am very proud that my Ivrit slang is about 25 years out of date. I am a LUBAVITCHER CHOSSID or CHASSID CHABAD, not a wannabe who hangs around and learns a few snippets of sichos and a sentence or two of Tanya.

    Now, if you are really in Berlin, ask Rabbi Teichtel what the Rebbe ZYA’s view on Zionism was – and while you are at it ask him if his grandfather HY”D (or is it great grandfather), who wrote Eim Habonim Smeicha, held by tzioinus. You’ll be in for a real surprise.

    #622578

    Yanky55
    Member

    Rabbiofberlin- I am proud to stand beside you as a rasha who supports Israel.

    I have no doubt that HKB”H does as well. One only has to take note of the fact that the State of Israel survives each and every day AL PI NESS!!!

    If not for His intervention, there is no way Israel would be able to protect itself from the 100 million Arabs that surround it.

    If the six day war cannot be seen as a ness and a ringing endorsement of the State by HKB”H, then people are either blind or naive (I’d prefer to say stupid, but I’ll just get a lot of flak for name-calling in Chodesh Elul C”V).

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