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IMHO, NO principal should ever throw out a student until he has gotten permission from 3 Gedolim and offer the parents the names of the three Gedolim he contacted and discussed the issue with. In the case where two out of three Gedolim totally agree that the child has to be thrown out, the following is the litmus test on the true warmth of Yiddishkeit of this principal:
How a principal behaves when he throws a student out, speaks volumes about what is in the principal’s heart and mind and his caring for each and every Yid. The student is a Yid.
If the principal cries (honestly) and shows the student that he’s in pain while he’s asking the student to leave, and tells the student that he predicts well for the student and points out his/her virtues and talents, when he/she throws a student out, the principal leaves the student with good feelings about the principal, himself and Yiddishkeit. The child will remember what happened in the principal’s office for the rest of the student’s life. Every single word uttered by the principal and the feelings with which it was said, will be replayed in the student’s mind for the rest of his life.
If the principal stays neutral and shows no praise and no anger towards the student, the principal is a principal of neutral qualities, and will leave the student with neutral feelings about the principal, himself and Yiddishkeit. (Could be better).
If the principal belittles, yells, talks down, embarasses, predicts a negative future for the student, when the principal throws the student out, may Hashem replace those principals with others. May Hashem enact a “Vayokom Melech Chodosh”- either a new “king” or old king with new “gezeiros”. These principals will leave the student with B A D feelings about the principal, himself and Yiddishkeit, and will certainly have a chelek in this student going OTD.
IMHO those principals who arent very close to the first description, should look for a new line of work. Their hearts and minds are not in the right place and are causing damage to Klal Yisroel that takes years to undo, if it can be undone at all. Often permanent damage results. I would think Hashem is not pleased with these principals.
It sounds good in theory, but I think that it could be rather difficult in the real world.
You want every principal to be a gadol hador. So do I, but if we would demand it, we won’t have enough principals.
Of course – There definitely is a mentchlich way to do it. As we know, in our day and age, that it’s not always the biggest Mentchen that reach to levels of power. Unfortunately a lot of people don’t see their own chesoronos and behave not in the proper way.
If you go to the very frum yeshivos, you have to play by the rules or expect to suffer the consequences if you don’t and they catch you!
OfCourse said: Please explain what the principal, and anyone else, stands to gain by negativity such as name calling and belittling the student that he/she is throwing out
What Daas Yochis and Health answer your request. Basically, 1) principals are human and 2)they wield a lot of power and that comes with its issues.
3 gedolim?
no. one gadol is good enough for me; but not only should he ask, he should also listen to what the gadol says. i agree with op that principal does not have to be a gadol hador, but he should be asking shailos from someone who is a gadol in chinuch every step of the way. the damage that a principal can do is scary.
I believe it’s in the Living the Parsha series, Rabbi Yaakov Bender relates a story from when he was in the Mir yeshiva. A bachur got into gambling, and not only was he gambling, he was drawing others in as well. R’ Shmuel Berenbaum zt”l refused to expel him from the yeshiva! A group of bachurim pleaded with him to kick the boy out, but he refused. Instead, he met with the bachur, and worked 1-on-1 with him to solve his problems.
This is how the big Rabbonim deal with these things.
Yes, clearly the first example is the the best principal, while the second two are reshaim.
I don’t know that there is no ground between crying and just matter of factly calling security and handing the kid a box full of his crayons and rulers. There probably are many steps in between.
But generally, any principal who does not attempt to encourage the kid and help him afterwards is a rasha.
Ofcourse -“Unfortunately some Mechanchim are dangerously impulsive/explosive/hurtful.”
This statement applies to every human being, not just Mechachim. In the time of Chazal you could expect a Rebbe to be a Malach -therefore the Torah requests to look for such people. In our day and age, the Rebbeyim/principals who are Malachim are far and few inbetween.
Every person has to work on themselves and not worry about the next guy. This is very hard and the biggest Nisoyon of our generation. I’ve had some very bad things done to me and I tried to get Justice, but I didn’t succeed. Real Justice will be in the next world!
Of course – I don’t think that the orgs. that do Kiruv also do the OTD kids. They have created special orgs. for this. I also don’t think that all the OTD kids are from bad mechanchim, there are many factors. This is why I suggested in the other thread, if ch’vs a kid gets thrown out, the parents should move quickly to get the kid in another yeshiva, even a MO yeshiva, before the kid gives up on Yiddishkeit!
“Unfortunately some Mechanchim are dangerously impulsive/explosive/hurtful.”
and some bring their own personal insercurities into their jobs and their reasons why they would punish a kid. some cant fagin kids who have what the principals wish they could have had…..its sad….
yep and when teachers and principals cantadmit even when their wrong but confuse the kid till he/she doesnt even know what shes doing.wow……and their the ones being mechanech…..good one.
You want every principal to be a gadol hador. So do I, but if we would demand it, we won’t have enough principals.
In the long term is this really better?
Of course – Exactly. Why wouldn’t a modern school take an “A” student who was thrown out for talking to girls? Especially when most of the students in MO schools talk to the other gender.
Aries – Are you just guessing or do you know cases of MO yeshivos refusing to take boys who were thrown out from regular yeshivos for minor infractions, like talking to girls?
If, indeed, the kid willingly and knowingly broke a school rule as important as this, I think we can agree that some punishment is in order. Was there no punishment between “nothing” and “explusion” that could have been applied?
The Wolf
Excellent point, and the answer probably lies in the numerous factors which were not specified in the OP.
Also keep in mind, that with three weeks left to go in the school year (and in this case, until graduation), the students feel like they can get away with anything, so the response might be different than it would be if it had occurred in the middle of 11th grade.
Once thing that I think
Did I really say that? My God — my proofreading skills must be horrible.
The Wolf
my proofreading skills must be horrible.
They’re better than most (and that error wouldn’t be caught by spell-check).
Don’t sweat it, your post are extremely readable.
You’re allowed to make a mistake one in a while! ?
Unfortunately, many of today’s principals are as messed up as their students. They can do more damage than good and can destroy a person’s life (personal experience). People are opening schools left and right and are they qualified to be in chinuch?! NO! It’s happened too many times that principals (and teachers) have ruined children and teens (pushing them more OTD than back on) not to learn from experience. Why is this still going on?! Nobody learned it already (the hard way) Yes, there are some excellent principals and they should be the ones in charge-not every lady/guy off the street!
done my rant 🙂
Of course – It’s not that new schools are opening all the time, is the problem -some of these old schools are the problem. I know plenty of old schools whom have the same mediocre staff or worse for years. This is why new schools are opening -people don’t want change in the old schools. Some of these new schools are doing a much better job than some old schools! Doesn’t mean that every new school is better – I said some!
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