December 15, 2010 3:16 am at 3:16 am #593494Trying my bestMember
Orthodox Jewry has been on a march to the right (derogatorily referred to by leftists as “the slide to the right”), towards greater Torah observance (and ancillary political conservatism) for well over 40 years now. Baruch Hashem this march is still continuing to proceed strongly.
What can we do to further this initiative to an even greater extent?December 15, 2010 3:39 am at 3:39 am #717556JamParticipant
continue trying your bestDecember 15, 2010 3:46 am at 3:46 am #717557charliehallParticipant
Why does greater observance lead to political conservatism? My politics have moved quite a bit to the left as I have become more observant and learn about the Torah’s mandates to take care of those who are less well off and its stringent regulation of business activity. Not for nothing did Chazal mandate that prospective converts be taught not Shabat, kashrut, and taharat hamishpacha but leket, peah, shich’chah and maaser oni, and also to place on communal authorities the reponsibility for public works, education, and care of the less well off.
It should also be noted that Rambam in Hilchot Deot says we have to follow the middle path in all things except arrogance.December 15, 2010 5:31 am at 5:31 am #717558RuffRuffMember
And I agree with Charly Hall. Perhaps I don’t agree with him on all his political positions, but I do wholly agree that Conservatism is not holy and has nothing to do with Yiddishkeit. While we align with them because of their tendency to stick up for morality, that doesn’t mean that they have the Messora Hakedosha.
The Yidden in Shushan are criticized for joining Achashveiroshes Seuda. This total submission to a certain party really bothers me. I see here on this site and in the non virtual world, Yidden who idolize talk show figures.
Like I said, I vote Republican in general since they advocate ideas that are important to me. However, I do not say, Mi Ke’amcha Conservatives. I think that deep down, they are extremists; they don’t believe in the government helping anyone at all. When confronted, they’ll either they the absurd claim that if taxes would go down then everyone will be prosperous and there will be no need for government help. Or, they’ll say that sure we should continue helping but we should cut out the unnecessary projects. The other, more common response is to ask a caller some unrelated questions untill you get back into friendly turf, and then hang up.December 15, 2010 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #717560tzippiMember
Trying my best, the logical conclusion, following this to the end of the road, is get off the net.December 15, 2010 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #717561Trying my bestMember
tzippi, I’m sure it would it would thrill you to have that, so the leftists can have a field day on the net without retort. But considering how little rightists are on the net as it is, I’m not sure why the fear of the little responsiveness you do get in the few corners such as this one.
RuffRuff, as the OP indicated the primary point was not political conservatism – that was a minor parenthetical side-point – but rather Torah religious observance.December 15, 2010 3:05 pm at 3:05 pm #717562Feif UnParticipant
Trying my best, I wouldn’t say it’s been moving towards greater Torah observance. I’d say “more stringent observance”. Most of the things which have been accepted by large groups are chumros, not halachah.December 15, 2010 3:43 pm at 3:43 pm #717563popa_bar_abbaParticipant
All I know, is that every Rosh yeshiva I have ever had was a staunch conservative,and on top of current events.
I know of one Rebbi in all the Yeshivos I have been in (5), who had any liberal tendencies, and he was way right of most democrats.
So, we can safely assume that there is a strong correlation.December 15, 2010 4:07 pm at 4:07 pm #717564Meir-123Member
A few chilukim/points:
Re: Political Coservatism – I think right wing politicians are usually in line with our views on Israel, general morality in the US, and even economics. However, I’m not sure that their opinons on stem cell research and abortion is in accordance with the general piskei halacha… So as a whole, it’s a winner, but not 1 for 1 exactly what we feel.
Moving to the ‘right’ needs to strike a good balance. On one hand, it’s a tremendous accomplishment that more people are shomrei mitzvos. Some halachos which fell to the wayside in previous generations are being revived. Checking for shatnez, for instance, was unheard of 50 years ago. However, even as we learn and observe more, we should always remember that klal yisroel encompasses a large spectrum and so does the frum community. That being the case, we always have to differentiate between chumros and halacha as not to overburden the masses and alienate those that can’t hack such a restrictive lifetsyle.December 15, 2010 4:11 pm at 4:11 pm #717565BobchkaParticipant
while going to the left on some social issues is probably correct. the way the left approches it is wrong. the systems in place reward those who get stuck into them. if the system allowed i.e. helped people to get on their feet, kol hakovod. but the system penalizes people who get lower paying jobs to start working back out, by reducing benefits. the chances of correcting the system is better with right leaning partys than leftDecember 15, 2010 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #717566Pashuteh YidMember
Trying, it is not necessarily a march towards more Torah values. It is a march towards extremism put forth by some with particular views that were never mainstrem in Judaism in previous doros. In its wake, have been left many with no parnasa or training to function in a job, who are in desperate financial straits.
Torah values were always to see that my fellow yidden had enough money to live on. Hatorah chasa al mamonam shel yisroel. Shmuel was going to tell people not to buy haddasim meshulashim if they did not lower their prices. Yaakov worked very hard with the sheep for 20 years.
The system that one looks for a spouse via a resume was never a Torah value. That singles should sit home and cry, waiting for a phone call from a shadchan was never a Torah value.
That businesses should have to resort to all kinds of shtick to function and stay alive was never a Torah value.
That many kids can’t read or write in either Hebrew or English after 12th grade was never a Torah value.December 15, 2010 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #717567gavra_at_workParticipant
To the Right, Ever to the Right, Never to the Left, Forever to the Right!?
Where there’s gold, A market that will hold, Tradition that is Old, Reluctant to be Bold!
Come sing Hoshana Hoshana!December 15, 2010 7:22 pm at 7:22 pm #717568Dave HirschParticipant
The Torah position on conservatism is clear .
Nevertheless, I agree with some posters above that Jewish observance is becoming extreme (in some circles). A great example is the lack of secular education (all in the name of Torah). Many things have indeed approved but some things seem to be going over the line.December 15, 2010 8:49 pm at 8:49 pm #717569rtParticipant
It is essential to point out my friends, the Torah is neither a liberal nor conservative “document”, it is a Divine “document”-no one should lay claim to it exclusively. Legal & moralistic positions can be derived from Torah, political opinions can’t. To attempt to fit the American political system to Torah is impossible, there are too many variables. Eg.-we can’t support total abolition of abortion, since halachically there are situations when it is necessary r’l (save life of mother for instance).
Rabbi Shmuel Bloom recently authored an article in the Yated, in which he poignantly points out that the Jewish community has been & is served well by both parties in varied issues & situations.December 15, 2010 11:30 pm at 11:30 pm #717570RuffRuffMember
Trying, I was addressing that very parenthetical side note.
I’m not sure the trend is continuing rightward, or rather, upward. While the community grew over the years, giving way to a comfortable feeling of being in our own world, there is also the opposite drive. We reached the stage of settling in America, and the general goal and direction was toward more Yiddishkeit. Now, it seems to have climaxed.
There are a lot of dried up souls around. If you want to continue the upward drive, the best thing would be to infuse our children with Geshmack and love for Torah and Mitzvos. It would help if Mosdos Hatorah would teach meaning in Mitzvos. In Europe, Beis Yaakov taught Choreb, from Rabbi Shamshon Refael Hirsh. I don’t know why they discontinued it. Today there is a new brand, the Laughing Rabbis. Whatever works.
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