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username, I don’t know if you recall that when I first mentioned the inyan of not sleeping in the sukkah I myself wrote that many chassidic groups have customs that don’t seem to fit into halacha. My point was not about not sleeping in the sukkah, it was about the weird lomdus your rebbe used to explain it, a point that was recently reiterated by rockstar.
It must be hard for you to write mentshliche replies to me, an acknowledged non-believer in much of what lubavich believes, but you certainly try, and I appreciate and applaud you for it!
NonPolitical: “That (I believe) is RSo’s point”
Precisely, as I posted before seeing your post.
Eli Y,, The mitzva is being in the sukkah, קיום המצוה and not tthe going into the sukkoh, מעשה המצוה so the consciousness in sleeping doesn’t matter.
Repost: My first post came out very unclearly – I want to just point out that while I believe certain meshichistin are kofrim, sukkah has nothing to do with it.
My first post may be misconstruable, and I want to clarify.
FYI,
I posted about Igros at length on a previous thread that I believe RSO was on, and had no patience flogging an old horse.YR,
The Rebbe never said he’s a Navi.I love how everyone jumps on this sleeping thing, and always goes straight for the craziest possible explanation “he didn’t sleep for eight whole days?? Impossible!!”
Anyone who knows anything about the Rebbe would know that judging by his schedule alone, he never slept properly, and it’s not hard to imagine that on Sukkos he stayed up at night, as he often did during the week, and slept intermittently at other times. I don’t know if this legend is true, but it certainly could be.YR,
Please ask the Mods to send me an email address. Thanks.Sechel; I clearly recall the tekufah before gimel tamuz. I was told then by Lubavicher Chasidim in my shul that the Rebbe said Higia Zman Geulaschem, “Betoras Nevuah”.
Sechel – I already did. Not sure if they passed it on.
What thread refers to the Igros?
Sechel – since this is an excuse to explain why didn’t sleep in the sukkah, it makes no difference if it was intermittent or not – even shinas aray is assur chutz lasukkah. Hence, the only possible explanation in this context is the crazy one.
And we both know chabadniks believe even crazier things about their rebbe. Heck, some even think he’s alive!
Mods: can you pass on to me Yeshivish Rockstars email? Or is there a policy against that?
Sorry, there’s a policy against that.
Rso: “Yes, and I have proven it. Remember, my statement was that there has been no such thing for (at least) hundreds of years. Moshe Rabbeinu was the Nossi Hador. There were nesi’im of Shevatim. There were the nesi’im in Eretz Yisroel. But the concept Nossi hador as applied to someone in the last hundreds of years originated with the last lubavicher rebbe.”
So let’s just clarify, it’s not made up by the Rebbe, (because it’s mentioned in many heilikeh sforim,) just the Rebbe was the one that brought it up in the past generations.
So first why does that make it wrong? Second forget about the title of it, you can just look at how the Rebbe acted, for example before Roshe hashona he stood for hours excepting, panim from all types of yeddin for all walks of life, and on Roshe hashona before, tekios, he took all those panim and kevitulach, and put his talis over them and davend and cryed for some time before he blew the shofor. The same with the friediker Rebbe if you know what he did in Russia, and not only that he said many times that he doesn’t want to be the Rebbe for klal Yisrael, but rather a Rebbe like hi father, and that’s why he didn’t want to move to America, until he was just forced to.
Your not forced to accept it, you don’t have too, but this is facts that happened.
Rso: “(I was going to answer the question you asked immediately prior to the one I quoted above, but I thought that there’s no point stam offending you. וד”ל)”
If you can answer those questions please, both of them.
(I’m not getting offended, because I’m not saying my opinion I’m saying what big people hold. But still didn’t bringe a godel or Rebbe that says what you say)
Chossid: “but even then it is told that the Rebbe didn’t sleep a whole sukkis because of the chshash”
It was told from the maskirim that hong around the Rebbe. And took cyof him
The same it doesn’t make sense to you, it doesn’t make sense to me, but that’s what happened.
And in general he didn’t sleep really more then three hours a night, especially in the early years.
If you only knew a little about the Rebbes schedule, he didn’t sleep too much, especially after a whole night of yechidus, which went to the early morning.And regarding the made up mishigas of writing to the igros.
Rso: from where do you get the fact that, “You are certainly in the minority in lubavich.”???The fact is that ruboi kekuloi doesn’t write to the igros.
Now regarding criteria of being a godel or a tzadik.
Your entitled to your opinion.
But I will repeat again, you can’t make up facts according to your on desire, and way you learn, you have to base you shita on some what of a talmid chochom, godel or tzadik. And you should think twice before you come to a maskona, because first you should learn more of what a Rebbe is, and what the Rebbe was, what he was boki in and his day to day life. Second I think you are arguing not just with Lubavitch, but rather must of the chassidishe world, (which you said that you are chassidish.) and some litvish too, you should check up the book חד בדרא and many other books and sforim, and speak to mevinim, before you continue speaking of not holding the Rebbe as godel or tzadik.
Yeshivishrockstar:
First I apologize for not writing harav shach, he did know alot more then me.“I have no intention of bringing up sukkah again here in this forum – my main intention was to demondtrate that it’s not merely sinas chinam when litvishers call certain chabadniks kofrim, but rather that there’s a basis for that.”
What the basis?
First for sinas chinom second that Lubavitch are koifrim.@ SH
“Non Political,
Look it up, the early Chassidim davening way way after Zman Tefilah.”I was bringing a halachic justification that actually had traction with (some) subsequent Poskim. The custom you are referring to was:
1) roundly condemned and ceased.
2) not as widespread as you are implyingBut ok, if you want an early source for davvenning completely outside of zman see the Trumas HaDeshen re: Maariv. If you learn his teshuva you will note that how he deals with the issue is highly instructive.
Chossid – Many Meshichist ascribe to the Rebbe powers that no man can have – Such as he’s omniscient and all knowing and all seeing, can live forever, can be communicated at all times – via the igros; some people – including a rebbe in Ohelei Torah – put a Rebbe picture in front of them while davening for hiskashrus (this has been confirmed to me by a reliable source); there are reports of people having in mind the Rebbe during shema for hiskashrus; the rampant posting of pictures everywhere – not merely gedolim pictures, but more like icons to remind you that he’s always watching you; reports of people asking the Rebbe for help NOT by his kever (Identifying Chabad blog has a list of such cases); the increasing instances of elokist imagery in Beis Moshiach and SIchos Hageulah; and I can write more. AND THESE ARE ALL MESHICHISTIM – NOT ELOKISTIM.
But it’s hard to see why elokism wouldn’t be the logical conclusion of all this meshichist stuff. And this scares me alot.So I’ll repeat: While meshichism is not kefira, many meshichists have belief that go far beyond that.
CS, welcome back! Can you answer my igros question please?
Thanks!
“Also, we want moshiach anyway regardless of whether it’s the Rebbe or not. It’s definitely not a maker or breaker kind of thing.”
GREAT! So at least you disagee with Reuven Wolf, who holds that the Rebbe being Moshaich is the foundation of all of yiddishkeit.
Welcome back to Judaism!
CS, Nachamtani.“He said that the Rambams conditions are unapplicable to the Rebbe today as the Rambams terms were only written to determine someone who is alive. Not if moshiach comes from the dead.”
No offense, CS, but that’s a pretty cheap copout, considering the Rambam clearly writes Neherag, which implies that his criteria DOES apply to the dead. (If not, every Neherag could still theoretically be Moshiach Min Hameisim.”) Also, “Im lo Hatzliach Ad Koh” implies he’s dead, otherwise, how would we possibly know if he hasn’t succeeded? Maybe he will with more time?
Thus, the correct reading is “Im Lo Asa Kol Zeh (and he’s dead) OR EVEN IF he did do all those things (build the bais hamikdash etc) but he was neherag, he still isn’t Mashiach, because he was Neherag.
(This answers up the rambam with the Gemear of Anavim (the famous song): How could Moshiach stand on the bais hamikdash if in order to built itwe need a king, and if a king builds it, he’s Moshiach? The answer is that the king built it but he was killed. Hence, he wasn’t Moshaich.)
Either way, the Rebbe does not fit the Rambam and is thus not Moshaich.
No offense, CS, but that’s a pretty cheap copout,
It’s complete intellectual dishonesty (maybe that’s what you call a copout?).
“He said that the Rambams conditions are unapplicable to the Rebbe today as the Rambams terms were only written to determine someone who is alive. Not if moshiach comes from the dead.”
That sounds very interesting. If this Rov could write it so I could understand exactly what he’s trying to say before trashing him, I’d appreciate it. If you could name the Rov, I’d appreciate it even more.That sounds very interesting
No, unless “interesting” is a euphemism for “retarded”.
It makes the Rambam entirely meaningless, because someone who doesn’t fit the criteria for Moshiach can simply die for a moment and then come back to life as Moshiach.
Yeshivishrockstar,
Why couldn’t it be built by משיח בן יוסף who’ll be killed and משיח בן דוד still stand on it
Alternatively why can’t anavim be talking about where we’re worthy for משיח and he comes with a ready made בית המקדש
coffee addict, we have to satisfy both since Aisov has to fall in the hand of Yosef but Moshiach comes from Dovid. We have to build the Beis Hamikdash together with Moshiach on which will come the one from fire.
rockstar (I hope you don’t mind me calling you that. The “yeshivish” part makes it less catchy!): “some people – including a rebbe in Ohelei Torah – put a Rebbe picture in front of them while davening for hiskashrus (this has been confirmed to me by a reliable source)”
What about putting a picture of the rebbe in the pillow under the baby at a bris? No one sees the picture, so it can’t have been put there to bring a hisorerus by looking at it. It must be imbued with some “power”. Why is that not a problem associated with avodah zarah?
I have also hear – I don’t know if it’s true or not – that lubavichers will never throw out a picture of their rebbe, and if they have to dispose of it they put it in genizah. Is this true?
CS, I am answering the meaning of the Zohar. The Torah encourages us to unite ואהבת לרעך כמוך the Tanya says that he is like you by having the same holy neshama, and be one which makes us one with Hashem as demonstrated above. It says מי כעמך ישראל כוי אחד this is the same one as it says כי חלק ה’ עמו Hashem is part of his nation.
“That sounds very interesting
No, unless “interesting” is a euphemism for “retarded”.”
Clearly you didn’t read the rest of what I wrote. Interesting very often doesn’t have a positive connotation.
CS: “He said that the Rambams conditions are unapplicable to the Rebbe today as the Rambams terms were only written to determine someone who is alive. Not if moshiach comes from the dead.”
Are you saying what I think you’re saying? That is, that when your rebbe was alive the Rambam paskened that he was mashiach, but now that you’re rebbe is (allegedly) dead, he is mashiach regardless and the Rambam’s psak doesn’t apply?
Chossid on the term “Nossi Hador”: “So let’s just clarify, it’s not made up by the Rebbe, (because it’s mentioned in many heilikeh sforim,) just the Rebbe was the one that brought it up in the past generations”
Which heilige seforim mention “Nossi Hador” in connection with someone who lived over the last hundreds, possibly thousand, years? I have searched and found nothing.“you can just look at how the Rebbe acted, for example…”
Did you know that there are Rebbes alive today shlita who spend hours EVERY DAY dealing with chassidim and others? Once again you are showing that your understanding and views are based solely on what you heard in lubavich. I can understand that that’s the case, and I don’t have a huge problem with it. The problem that I (and others on this forum) have with views like yours is that you really think that it will convince US that your rebbe was greater “than average”.“If you can answer those questions please, both of them”
OK, but only because you insist: Yes, I think the mivtza of 7 mitvos Bnei Noach is a meshigass, and I have NEVER met any non-lubavicher who thinks otherwise. I’m happy to leave that topic alone because I’m not interested in davka offending.“The same it [not sleeping the entire sukkos] doesn’t make sense to you, it doesn’t make sense to me, but that’s what happened”
The gemoro says it’s not possible, and the Rambam paskens that way. This is not an aggadata as it is nogeia to giving someone malkus in a beis din. There can’t be exceptions. So, in summary, I don’t believe what the mazkirim say. Anyhow, from all the stories the mazkirim were not with him 24/7. Furthermore, he had a bed (possibly a folding bed) in his room. I heard it from a lubavicher (I think he may even be a meshichist – not sure) who saw it.“you have to base you shita on some what of a talmid chochom, godel or tzadik…. first you should learn more of what a Rebbe is, and what the Rebbe was, what he was boki in and his day to day life. Second I think you are arguing not just with Lubavitch, but rather must of the chassidishe world, (which you said that you are chassidish.) ”
I have most definitely discussed the matter with numerous chassidishe talmidei chachomim who, were they Litvish, would be considered gedolim, and I have arrived at my opinions based on those discussions.“you should check up the book חד בדרא ”
You caught me on a sefer that I don’t recall having seen, so I looked it up. Written by a lubavicher and published by lubavich. Let me make a guess based on the title, it quotes all types of people who say that the lubavicher rebbe was chad bedoro. Did I get it right? Can I also guess that there are a lot of people who think otherwise who aren’t quoted?Coffee – How would you know if he was Moshiach Ben Yosef and Not Moshiach ben David? Simple – he was killed.
Either way, even if you disapree with my pshat in Rambam, CS’s rovs answer is disingenuous to say the least.
SHY: ” it’s not hard to imagine that on Sukkos he stayed up at night, as he often did during the week, and slept intermittently at other times”
That doesn’t exempt him from sleeping in a sukkah as even a shinas arai, as opposed to achilas arai, is mechuyav. And we all know how makpid lubavich is on eating or drinking anything in a sukkah, so according to basic halacha he should have gone to even great length to have naps in the sukkah.
Again, I’m not saying that the minhag of not sleeping in the sukkah is wrong, even though I don’t know where the minhag came from. I’m saying that the “lomdishe” excuse makes no sense at all.
Coffee – How would you know if he was Moshiach Ben Yosef and Not Moshiach ben David? Simple – he was killed.
That’s not what I said or asked
This is what I said
Why couldn’t it be built by משיח בן יוסף who’ll be killed and משיח בן דוד still stand on it
Because you said
Thus, the correct reading is “Im Lo Asa Kol Zeh (and he’s dead) OR EVEN IF he did do all those things (build the bais hamikdash etc) but he was neherag, he still isn’t Mashiach, because he was Neherag.
(This answers up the rambam with the Gemear of Anavim (the famous song): How could Moshiach stand on the bais hamikdash if in order to built itwe need a king, and if a king builds it, he’s Moshiach? The answer is that the king built it but he was killed. Hence, he wasn’t Moshaich.)
And to laskern,
I don’t follow what you’re saying
coffee addict, we have to satisfy both since Aisov has to fall in the hand of Yosef but Moshiach comes from Dovid. We have to build the Beis Hamikdash together with Moshiach on which will come the one from fire.
I’m saying the בית המקדש coming from fire is already built in שמים through our מצות and moshiach will come with it
But if we’re not worthy we have to build it with משיח בן יוסף who died and then משיח בן דוד takes over
Sorry I’m using my phone to reply so can’t see what I’m writing so clearly and other people’s comments
“ In chassidish non lubavitch society, dressing tznius is not necessarily an indication of sensitivity to kedusha and yiras shomayim, but an indication of communal pressure. ”
How do you say things like that with a straight face?
Clearly you didn’t read the rest of what I wrote. Interesting very often doesn’t have a positive connotation.
Sorry about that. I read your post but did miss the word “trashed”.
I don’t know why you’d need some unnamed rov to explain nonsense. As presented here, it’s total garbage and an embarrassment to the Rebbe, regardless of whether someone actually said it previously.
““ In chassidish non lubavitch society, dressing tznius is not necessarily an indication of sensitivity to kedusha and yiras shomayim, but an indication of communal pressure. ”
How do you say things like that with a straight face?”
I for one agree. It’s not necessarily a good thing, but the fact is that in Lubavitch today, there is no such thing as communal pressure, rather איש הישר בעיניו יעשה, so when the stigma isn’t there, and someone still does the right thing, it shows on a certain depth of character, and strong principles.
Societal pressure is a good thing, and one of the issues in many Lubavitcher communities today is that there simply isn’t any, but on the other hand, societal pressure also masks many underlying issues within the said society. I’m not going to illustrate my point, it resonates differently within every community.
Halevai we had communal pressure in Crown Heights, and Halevai people would have the sensitivity and Bushah to dress properly even if they don’t believe in it.
SH – with all de respect (and I do mean that), you are either missing the point or avoiding it. I hear your point and it isn’t a bad one. My objection was, I thought obviously so, the first half. If she had respect for others, and wasn’t so full of herself and her ways, she would have written:
“In chassidish non lubavitch society, dressing tznius is an indication of sensitivity to kedusha and yiras shomayim, with the addition of communal pressure. ”What she in fact said, and I am assuming you honestly missed it, was that the non lubavitch chassidish are dressing tznius because of communal pressure, not kedusha or yiras shomayim. What kind of stupid comment is that? How does she say things like that and wonder why people are offended. Your point was a good one and adding that the pressure CAN take away from the mitzvah is right on. Her comment is just more indicative of her illness.
@Chabadshluch:
This igros thing that you expect answers from the Rebbe is garbage. The Rebbe said on the friediker Rebbe that HE will find away to answer, not that YOU find him away to answer, after yud shvat the Rebbe said to ask brochois and daven by his kaver, not to ask his igros. And btw the Rebbe didn’t always answer everyone, so who said he answer you (not saying that the Rebbe way of answering can not come sometimes for the igros, could be that’s the way he decided to answer this time, but that’s not the way you ask the Rebbe, and that’s not, that the Rebbe has to answer. The way we know how ask a Rebbe is the Rebbe did it himself.So stop with the mishugasim.
Syag, she never said that. Talk about reading comprehension, you missed a key word.
I quote: “In chassidish non lubavitch society, dressing tznius is not NECESSARILY an indication of sensitivity to kedusha and yiras shomayim, but an indication of communal pressure. ”She never intimated or otherwise implied that non Lubavitch Chassidim dress Tznius not because of Yiras Shamayim, what she was saying is, is that sometimes dress is not a good enough indication of Yiras Shamayim, because outward behavior, and dress in particular are prone to being influenced by societal norms and pressure. This isn’t rocket science, it’s a very good observation.
This was a few years before the Rebbe’s petrira. I knew a “tunkele” aide, who visited mainly Yiddishe seniors mainly in Crown Heights & Williamsburg. “Mesiach lefi Tumoh” she said that “The women in Williamsburg are much more modestly dressed than in Crown Heights”. Need I say more?
Which heilige seforim mention “Nossi Hador” in connection with someone who lived over the last hundreds, possibly thousand, years? I have searched and found nothing.
They don’t connect it with someone particularly, but to say that such a musig exists, that there is a nossi hador in every generation (no matter how recent) that has a nitzutz of Moishe rabbeinu, like the mekoirios quoted above. Your only problem is that you don’t like that the Rebbe associated the friediker Rebbe as a nossi hador (and the same goes on himself). I can understand your felling, but it’s not a made up thing.
“Did you know that there are Rebbes alive today shlita who spend hours EVERY DAY dealing with chassidim and others?”
Very possible, but do you have any names?
Yes, I think the mivtza of 7 mitvos Bnei Noach is a meshigass, and I have NEVER met any non-lubavicher who thinks otherwise.
What exactly is the “meshigas”? That Hashem commanded them to keep the 7 mitzvos? Or to tell them about it?
I don’t see a difference between telling a non frum person to do a mitzvah, and telling a goiy to do a mitzvah, the same Hashem that commanded us do to 613 mitzvos commanded them to do 7 mitzvos.And what’s with this rambam???
רמב”ם הל’ מלכים פ”ח
וְכֵן צִוָּה משֶׁה רַבֵּנוּ מִפִּי הַגְּבוּרָה לָכֹף אֶת כָּל בָּאֵי הָעוֹלָם לְקַבֵּל מִצְוֹת שֶׁנִּצְטַוּוּ בְּנֵי נֹחַFirst I thought you don’t have to any respect for the Lubavitcher Rebbe (which in itself is surprising) and know it looks like you bechlal don’t have respect to the rambam, or anyone that doesn’t fit your personal shita and mindset. (Miss quoting Gemorahs;))
And btw I met lots of non-Lubavitchers that agree with it.
“The gemoro says it’s not possible, and the Rambam paskens that way. This is not an aggadata as it is nogeia to giving someone malkus in a beis din. There can’t be exceptions. So, in summary, I don’t believe what the mazkirim say. Anyhow, from all the stories the mazkirim were not with him 24/7. Furthermore, he had a bed (possibly a folding bed) in his room. I heard it from a lubavicher (I think he may even be a meshichist – not sure) who saw it.”
Good question, but the same I can’t understand how he had Ruach hakodesh and did miracles, the same to is with this. Maybe he just was not an ordinary person.
And yes the Rebbe had a bed in is room, but that was only in the last five years after the rebbitzim past away.
“I have most definitely discussed the matter with numerous chassidishe talmidei chachomim who, were they Litvish, would be considered gedolim, and I have arrived at my opinions based on those discussions.”
NAMES PLEASE
“You caught me on a sefer that I don’t recall having seen, so I looked it up. Written by a lubavicher and published by lubavich. Let me make a guess based on the title, it quotes all types of people who say that the lubavicher rebbe was chad bedoro. Did I get it right?”
If doesn’t make a difference who it was written by, it just states and has pictures of many great rabbeim meeting the Rebbe. Not necessarily Chad bedorah, but that they held of the Rebbe and asked him for brochois.
PACTS WITH NAMES AND PICTURES.
“Can I also guess that there are a lot of people who think otherwise who aren’t quoted?”
Very possible, if you can please name me some.
For some reason you don’t have any………….
Yes Sechel. That IS what you said, and what you wish she said. But she didn’t say that. If she had, I wouldn’t have bothered commenting.
You accuse me often of twisting words, well I have to say I see a plethora of ,”s/he didn’t mean that”, “can’t you read? nobody said that”, “why is everyone jumping on nothing” etc.
Nothing we ever point out actually exists in your mind (plural your). If we have a good point against your rebbe we are being disrespectful to your rebbe and not deserving of an answer (forget that your rebbe is disrespectful to halacha), and if we have a good point about the ‘followers’/minhagim/manhigim they get brushed aside as not even worth addressing.
Interesting tactic (prepare for the bellowing/insults, the third method of dealing with pointing things out)
““The women in Williamsburg are much more modestly dressed than in Crown Heights”. Need I say more?”
Yeah, no one ever argued with that.
Which heilige seforim mention “Nossi Hador” in connection with someone who lived over the last hundreds, possibly thousand, years? I have searched and found nothing.
They don’t connect it with someone particularly, but to say that such a musig exists, that there is a nossi hador in every generation (no matter how recent) that has a nitzutz of Moishe rabbeinu, like the mekoirios quoted above. Your only problem is that you don’t like that the Rebbe associated the friediker Rebbe as a nossi hador (and the same goes on himself). I can understand your felling, but it’s not a made up thing.
“Did you know that there are Rebbes alive today shlita who spend hours EVERY DAY dealing with chassidim and others?”
Very possible, but do you have any names?
Yes, I think the mivtza of 7 mitvos Bnei Noach is a meshigass, and I have NEVER met any non-lubavicher who thinks otherwise.
What exactly is the “meshigas”? That Hashem commanded them to keep the 7 mitzvos? Or to tell them about it?
I don’t see a difference between telling a non frum person to do a mitzvah, and telling a goiy to do a mitzvah, the same Hashem that commanded us do to 613 mitzvos commanded them to do 7 mitzvos.And what’s with this rambam???
רמב”ם הל’ מלכים פ”ח
וְכֵן צִוָּה משֶׁה רַבֵּנוּ מִפִּי הַגְּבוּרָה לָכֹף אֶת כָּל בָּאֵי הָעוֹלָם לְקַבֵּל מִצְוֹת שֶׁנִּצְטַוּוּ בְּנֵי נֹחַFirst I thought you don’t have to any respect for the Lubavitcher Rebbe (which in itself is surprising) and know it looks like you bechlal don’t have respect to the rambam, or anyone that doesn’t fit your personal shita and mindset. (Miss quoting Gemorahs;))
And btw i met personally many non-Lubavitchers that agree with the Rebbe regarding this.
“The gemoro says it’s not possible, and the Rambam paskens that way. This is not an aggadata as it is nogeia to giving someone malkus in a beis din. There can’t be exceptions. So, in summary, I don’t believe what the mazkirim say. Anyhow, from all the stories the mazkirim were not with him 24/7. Furthermore, he had a bed (possibly a folding bed) in his room. I heard it from a lubavicher (I think he may even be a meshichist – not sure) who saw it.”
Good question, but the same I can’t understand how he had Ruach hakodesh and did miracles to the same is with this. Maybe he just was not an ordinary person.
And yes the Rebbe had a bed in is room, but that was only in the last five years after the rebbitzim past away.
“I have most definitely discussed the matter with numerous chassidishe talmidei chachomim who, were they Litvish, would be considered gedolim, and I have arrived at my opinions based on those discussions.”
NAMES PLEASE
“You caught me on a sefer that I don’t recall having seen, so I looked it up. Written by a lubavicher and published by lubavich. Let me make a guess based on the title, it quotes all types of people who say that the lubavicher rebbe was chad bedoro. Did I get it right?”
If doesn’t make a difference who it was written by, it just states and has pictures of many great rabbeim meeting the Rebbe. Not necessarily Chad bedorah, but that they held of the Rebbe and asked him for brochois.
PACTS WITH NMAES AND PICTURES.
“Can I also guess that there are a lot of people who think otherwise who aren’t quoted?”
Very possible, if you can please name me some.
For some reason you don’t have any………….
Furthermore, this case is off the subject. The Rabbonim instituted the practice you are objecting to, they are not coming to justify it expo facto.
And @Rso
My point was not about not sleeping in the sukkah, it was about the weird lomdus your rebbe used to explain it, a point that was recently reiterated by rockstar.
There’s a general klal that you don’t need as strong of a Svara to legitimize an existing Minhag than to innovate a new one.
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