Things are getting out of hand

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  • #593249

    snapple
    Member
    #713868

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I like it. You are supposed to beautify the mitzvos; it shows that you love them.

    Don’t you love the mitzva of kiddush? Didn’t they have golden cups in the beis hamikdash?

    I am willing to accept one of these from anyone who will buy me one. I will even set up your daughter with one of my friends.

    #713869

    deiyezooger
    Member

    Especialy now days with gold being almost $1,400 an ounce.

    #713870

    Jose
    Member

    What bothers you more about this then any other luxury a person may

    spend on?

    What about a person who spends $65,000 on a car rather than $28,000? The difference is much greater. And in all the extra is depreciated in three years, this will retain some value based on the price of gold. What about someone who spends $45,000 on a watch? What specifically bothers you about this more then anything else?

    There was a blogger who made an issue of this a number of years ago (This is not a new item) and of course his biggest problem was that it was for something used for a mitzvah. He had no issue with people going on $45,000 vacations or spending $120,000 on a Mercedes. He was making an issue of gaavah in spending this type of money on a mitzvah. The Mercedes is not gaavah, only a becher is in that blogger’s mind.

    Well I say, if a person has the money why isn’t better that he spends on something showing chashivus for a mitzvah and will become a family heirloom rather than on stam fleeting gashmius.

    Often times the people who make the biggest of issue of this are those who cannot fargin someone or those who cannot tolerate spending on something relating to ruchnius when they can spent it on pure decadence.

    Why don’t you link to a jewelery store item?

    #713871

    myfriend
    Member

    Jose, well said.

    #713872

    minyan gal
    Member

    Personally, I think it is beautiful and would love to own it. If I could afford it without depriving anyone in my life or decreasing what I could give for tzedakah or having to change my life in any way, then why not. This is obviously a luxury item and there are some who can afford such luxuries. This particular item will at least for several generations which is more than can be said for a great many other luxury items.

    #713873

    snapple
    Member

    true

    #713874

    WIY
    Member

    Snapple

    If someone wealthy enough to afford it buys it Lishmah for the sake of Chavivus Hamitzva, to beautify the Mitzvas Aseh of Kiddush (Friday night and Mitzvah Drobbanan by day) and to show his wife and children what money is really given to a Jew for, then not only is it not materialism it is a big mitzvah and beautiful Chinuchand he gets a lot of Schar for it.

    Now even if he doesn’t buy it 100% Lishma it is still way better than blowing the money on a fancy watch or other mishegas. Its still a mitzvah albeit a smaller one than he could have gotten.

    At the end of the day, the Becher stays in the house, he doesn’t buy it to show off to the public.

    Mr or Mrs snapple, please stop being jealous of those who have more than you.

    #713875

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Meh. I personally don’t like ostentatious displays for myself, but I’m not going to tell someone else what to do with their hard-earned money. If someone wants to use a fancy gold becher, or a large silver menorah, I have no real objections. I would never use them, but I’m not going to impose my personal tastes on others.

    The Wolf

    #713876

    charliehall
    Participant

    I thought we were supposed to spend 20% extra to beautify a mitzvah, not 2000%.

    #713877

    frumladygit
    Member

    snapple I am with you. Its ridiculous. Very few people could afford this.

    #713878

    chesedname
    Participant

    I think it’s beautiful, as a matter of fact i almost bought it, i just couldn’t get used to the gold as I’ve been using and seeing silver all my life.

    how could you put a price on a mitzvah? jealousy is a terrible middah!!

    as far as a lexus etc.. ppl can and should spend what they can afford. if G-d gave it to them let them enjoy it, as long as they’re giving tzeddka

    #713879

    amichai
    Participant

    I do not think its a matter of jealousy here. Isn’t their a inyan of yes buying nice things for your shabbos table , but not going overboard.? everyone needs to decide for themselves.

    #713881

    WIY
    Member

    amichai

    Its a Cheftza shel mitzvah that you use 2x a Shabbos as well as every Yom Tov!

    If people find an excuse to pay $70,000 for a car when a $28,000 one would more than suffice than they certainly should be willing to spend $12,000 on a mitzvah.

    Should I mention the fact that there are families that spend $100,000,- $1,000,000 I personally know of a wedding where the flowers cost $100,000. $100,000!!!!! .If we can splurge like that for a wedding when a person can easily have a beautiful wedding for $40,000 we better be prepared to splurge like that for our mitzvos as well!!!

    #713882

    smartcookie
    Member

    Rather spend on a magnificant Shabbos table than spending on a car, vacation, etc…

    Although I do think the price on this specific Becher is absurd, I still think you shouldn’t get all excited about it before you rant about all other Shtussim people spend on.

    #713883

    bezalel
    Participant

    210 grams at 14k gold contains 122.5 grams of gold.

    122.5 grams is about 3.6 ounces.

    3.6 ounces at $1364.20 is $4211.12.

    #713884

    tzippi
    Member

    I think there’s this Ibn Ezra on Lo Sachmod that some people might want to check out…

    #713885

    bpt
    Participant

    I heard about this last year and called the store that was listed as selling it to see if it was a hoax (they assured me it was not).

    I don’t care how rich you are. For generations, silver has graced the shabbos table. This is obsene.

    Feh.

    #713886

    arc
    Participant

    whats the big deal? there are plenty of things that are pricey if you can afford it then go ahead.

    There is a medrash that (loosely) says rich people should live to their standards because they will be more likely to give tzedaka.

    #713887

    WIY
    Member

    PointTzippi

    Good point. Its an essential understanding to what Lo Sachmod means.

    #713888

    chesedname
    Participant

    tzippi

    I checked it out, you misunderstood it.

    he says you shouldn’t dream of owning something someone else has, that you CAN’T get.

    he brings the example of simple farmer not dreaming of marring a princess.

    if you can’t afford a gold becher, you’re right don’t think of it.

    if you could afford it, the Ibn Ezra doesn’t apply, and let the person buy what he wants, and use it as he wants. don’t forget there are times that we’re supposed to be using our “best” and if someone is worth a billion, the $50.00 becher others use would not be his best.

    #713889

    at least you save on the shipping- its free!

    #713890

    tzippi
    Member

    Chesedname, true, not a perfect analogy, but there’s still the point of a nekudas habechira that it’s just not part of my lifestyle or reality and not for me. Fine for someone else though, I don’t need to make a macha’ah.

    #713893

    ronrsr
    Member

    it makes sense to me.

    King Ahasueros, for all his wealth, could have had 100 beautiful megillah cases, yet he couldn’t buy even one single ziplock bag. Therefore, the ziplock bag is more precious than a silver megillah case.

    Q.E.D.

    #713894

    pet peeve
    Member

    everything else aside, its a little impractical. gold is a soft metal, much more so than silver, so if it truly is 100% gold, with no fillers, its very likely to bend/get misshapen. not the most sensible item out there. then again, when is luxury practical? 🙂

    #713895

    WIY
    Member

    WolfishMusings

    I have noticed a pattern that mosherose waits for you to say something he doesnt like or agree with and then poof he shows up to attack you. He is baiting you. Please ignore him so he will leave you alone.

    #713896

    striving
    Member

    Wow it’s ridiculous how so many members of this forum seem to be looking for ways to put each other down! i.e. mosherose’s criticism of WolfishMusings. It’s really sad and I think that you should be careful before putting people down like that. It’s important to remember that the members of the CR are real people with real feelings. Isn’t being a mensch more important than hiddur mitzva (example from mosherose’s post —sorry mosherose I don’t mean to pick on you – it’s not just you… that post just caught my eye as an attempt to put someone down on a personal level)

    I used to post here a bit and read the posts all the time… but it just made me sad to see the way people talk to each other.

    🙁

    #713897

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I would like to point out that I was m’chavein to mosherose, as I was the first to absurdly say it was hiddur mitzva.

    #713898

    mazal77
    Participant

    WIY posted “If someone wealthy enough to afford it buys it Lishmah for the sake of Chavivus Hamitzva, to beautify the Mitzvas Aseh of Kiddush (Friday night and Mitzvah Drobbanan by day) and to show his wife and children what money is really given to a Jew for, then not only is it not materialism it is a big mitzvah and beautiful Chinuchand he gets a lot of Schar for it.”

    There are many other ways to be mechanueh children to show what money is really given for. I don’t think people are jealous in what you accuse them of having such things. Most people don’t need such things and are quite content with their becher, be it brass, or ceramic. I think the real issue is that it bothers people who really value what money can do and help out. There are more important priorites in life. Like helping a needy bride, helping people have operations to be able to live… You can educate a child by showing him instead of spending on luxuries. Show the children you are writing a check to so and so’s tzedekah.

    Trust me, I am not jealous. I live by the adage, “the more one has, the more one has to worry about” I don’t want such things.

    #713899

    WIY
    Member

    popa_bar_abba

    It is a hiddur mitzvah. But that doesnt mean one is obligated to buy such a becher even if he can afford it.

    #713900

    WIY
    Member

    mazal77

    “There are many other ways to be mechanueh children to show what money is really given for.”

    I agree, Im just saying its not up to you or me to tell someone how to show the message to his kids. Additionally, I will go out on a slight ledge and say that anyone who buys such a becher Lishma probably gives tons of money to Tzeddaka as well and is probably mehader other mitzvos in a similar manner by showing money is not an object when it comes to mitzvah observance.

    #713901

    smartcookie
    Member

    Dear posters- get a life. Why are you getting so hysterical over an overpriced Becher when people are throwing away big money for shtussim.

    This problem is an old one and you can’t help it.

    But I would rather be upset when I see the OTHER things people spend on. I’ll worry about an expensive Becher least.

    #713902

    tzippi
    Member

    To ronrsr: matches, too.

    #713903

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    WIY:

    I said it was hiddur mitzva. I was the first one.

    #713904

    WIY
    Member

    Popa

    You didn’t use the word hiddur but you are correct you were first!

    #713905
    #713906

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I remember you said in another thread that you had a beautfiful silver megilah case and instead you used a ziplock bag.

    That’s right. I won a megillah at a Chinese Auction quite a while back. With it came a large silver case, with bells. Aside from the fact that the case was far too large for the megillah itself, it was far too ostentatious and showy for me.

    Since I don’t like things that I consider ostentatious, I never used the case and instead did carry it around in a Ziploc bag for a few years, until my in-laws bought me a simple wooden case (which I use today).

    Apparently hiddur mitzvah means nothing to you.

    I wasn’t aware that it was a hiddur to use something that I personally find distasteful. If you have something to the contrary that says that it is, please cite it.

    The Wolf

    #713907

    im sorry,

    that post of mr was deleted but he reposted it and it slipped by. he tends to post in a huge flurry and its hard to catch everything. you only see about 10% of his posts.

    #713908

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    im sorry that post of mr was deleted but he reposted it and it slipped by. he tends to post in a huge flurry and its hard to catch everything. you only see about 10% of his posts.

    I don’t know why you’re apologizing. I don’t mind responding to my critics, no matter how silly their criticisms are.

    Personally, I was always of the opinion that message boards shouldn’t be moderated and that people should be judged on the quality of their ideas. If someone wants to put up silly arguments, then by all means let them… they’ll just reveal themselves for the type of person that they are. If you give ’em enough rope… 🙂

    The Wolf

    #713909

    dunno
    Member

    I don’t see why it’s anyone’s business besides the person buying it. If this is how he wants to spend his money, good for him.

    #713910

    well rudeness and bad manners create an environment which has a hashpoh on those immersed in it even if they recognize it for what it is

    #713911

    my post was directed to wolf not dunno

    i see how that could be ambiguous

    #713912

    dunno
    Member

    Mod 80 –

    I was wondering…

    #713913

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    well rudeness and bad manners create an environment which has a hashpoh on those immersed in it even if they recognize it for what it is

    I understand. I was just pointing out that there is no need to apologize *to me* for anything anyone else says about me. I don’t mind responding to my critics and letting their statements speak for them.

    If you want to keep it out as a matter of board policy, that’s up to you, of course — but that doesn’t warrant or require an apology to me.

    The Wolf

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