Things people in the CR find offensive

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  • #613772
    haifagirl
    Participant

    Here’s a thread to list things we find offensive. I’ll start.

    We have hired five shadchanim to deal exclusively with girls age 23 and over. . . They are to actively create a database of all the older single girls, including their profiles.

    I’m an older single. I find it very offensive that girls young enough to be my daughters are called “older” singles.

    #1038549
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    haifagirl,

    when should they start calling someone an “older single”

    #1038550
    squeak
    Participant

    Sorry you feel that way. Older is relative. Compared to you they are young, but they are not comparing to you.

    #1038551
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I don’t believe anyone is an older single before they are 30.

    If you aren’t old enough to learn kaballah*, you aren’t old enough to complain about who was called out 40 days before you were born.

    *Popa is clearly not old enough to learn kaballah or nigleh, v’duk.

    #1038552
    golfer
    Participant

    I’m with haifagirl on this.

    There is way too much pressure on the younger members of our society to get that ring on their finger. And increasing desperation when our young ladies celebrate their 22nd birthday without having had the need to buy a double stroller. I can’t imagine why a 23 year old is ready to enter “older singlehood.”

    On the other hand, if we’re going to address the problem in any fashion, it’s probably not wise to wait until the ladies are 35, or even 32.

    I’d like to put in a vote for calling a girl an “older single” at 26 or 27. Certainly not before her 25th birthday.

    And if a guy wants to join “older guy-dom” (yes, contrary to popular propaganda, there are actually living, breathing older guys who are not married) I’d give him his membership card at 28 or 29. Maybe 30.

    I’m curious for others to weigh in on this. Especially those who are not married and would like to accept or decline the “older” title.

    #1038553
    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    I’m pretty sure 40 is the cutoff for learning kabbalah.

    #1038554
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I don’t believe anyone is an older single before they are 30.

    At 29, they’re older than 28. It’s about context, as squeak said, and in the context used, there’s nothing offensive.

    #1038555
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Dy and squeak,

    I was getting at that

    #1038556
    Joseph
    Participant

    I find it very offensive that 60 year old pipsqueaks young enough to be my children are called “older” singles.

    Among Chasidim 21 year olds are older singles.

    #1038557
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Don’t you find it offensive that unmarried people are called “singles” as if it defines them?

    #1038558
    Joseph
    Participant

    Don’t you find it offensive that married people are called “married” as if it defines them?

    #1038559
    hodulashem
    Participant

    I believe that it’s all relative…. I’m single and nearing my 22nd birthday, and although many of my friends are already purchasing double strollers, I do not consider myself to be old! However…. When my 19 year old co-workers (who were my campers a few years back) walk in sporting sheitels, I do feel old in a sense…

    and when I see my co-workers who are in their mid-thirties and are still single, my perspective obviously changes….

    As far as what is actually considered an “older” single, I can completely understand why someone in haifagirl’s place is offended by 23 being labeled as older! in my opinion, “older” is not before 25… Yet in defense of those 23 year olds, as young as they are in comparison to the singles in their 30’s, 40’s, 50’s and beyond, they are also in a challenging position… Although they are young, have a whole life ahead of them, and should really just have a little “patience”, we should be mindful of the fact that they have been in shidduchim for the last 4-5 years. No, it hasn’t been 20 years. But every girl enters shidduchim with the same anxious butterflies and hope for their future… some marry the first guy, some get lots of dates, some get dates here and there, some go on dates every week and just can’t find the one, and some wait and wait by the silent phone for months- and then years… Each year that passes makes the heart a little heavier. These 23 year olds are not “old”, but they have spent the last 4-5 years attending vort after vort and wedding after wedding, 4-5 years of planning friends’ bridal showers, 4-5 years of frustration and heartache… eventually the questions of “when” turn into the question of “if” they’ll merit to meet their intended and start their own homes… bH, I am not personally feeling a sense of despair because believe that when the time is right for me, it will happen. but I do know girls that are in their young 20’s and are the only ones left of their circle of friends… and they are losing hope.

    I am not trying to undermine the pain of haifagirl and others in her situation! I just want to point out that as new as us young ones are to this struggle, the struggle is still there, as is the fear of the unknown…

    May all of klal yisroel be zoche to their personal yeshuos bmheira b’yomainu!

    #1038560
    hodulashem
    Participant

    i just want to correct myself- it hasn’t been 4-5 years of frustration and heartache! They started off eager and excited… but as the years go on and their friends move, it begins to get frustrating

    #1038561
    cinderella
    Member

    Don’t you find it offensive that unmarried people are called “singles” as if it defines them?

    Just as offensive as married people being called “husband”, “wife”, or “couples” as if it defines them. We’re talking about their marital status, what else are you supposed to say?

    #1038562
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    If I’m not mistaken, RebYidd’s point is that if you try hard enough, you can be offended by any term.

    Hodulashem, there’s plenty of reason for people who have been seeking their zivug for a long time (is that phrase pc enough?) to be frustrated, but I don’t think it makes sense to express that understandable frustration in terms of being offended by innocent terminology.

    I believe that R’ Rechnitz was very accurate in using the term “older singles” for 23 year old girls in the context he was discussing.

    He was discussing taking extraordinary measures to help them get married, and since many (probably most) boys don’t want to go out with girls older than themselves, and boys start at 22-23, it becomes much more challenging to find shidduchim for girls at 23. The term was in no way being used objectively.

    #1038563
    ivory
    Member

    I thought this was a list of things people found offensive . Not another thread on the shidduch crisis ….

    #1038564
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Do you find discussion of the shidduchim crisis offensive?

    #1038565
    hodulashem
    Participant

    DaasYochid, it might not make sense to us that one would get frustrated over this innocent terminology… But I do understand why someone over the age of 40 would be pained by the idea that a 23 year old is being called “older” …and although no offense was ever intended by all the innocent people, i think it’s ok for one to express how hearing this affects them. we all need a little venting time, no?

    #1038566
    Joseph
    Participant

    “The term was in no way being used objectively.”

    I think it was, accurately, being used objectively.

    #1038567
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    we all need a little venting time, no?

    I dont like when people take out their frustrations, even justified ones, on the innocent. Is it okay if I vent about that?

    #1038568
    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    We need an exclusive “Shidduchim CR” for all these (offensive) Shidduch threads. How about ImNotAMotherYet.com? (And maybe all the Seminary threads can be there as well?!)

    😉

    #1038569
    haifagirl
    Participant

    I’m single and nearing my 22nd birthday, and although many of my friends are already purchasing double strollers,

    My friends’ kids are purchasing double strollers.

    #1038570
    ivory
    Member

    I don’t find shidduch crisis discussions offensive. Just making an observation.

    #1038571
    squeak
    Participant

    I am offended by double strollers. Often. Sidewalks are just not wide enough for them and me.

    #1038572
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I don’t find shidduch crisis discussions offensive. Just making an observation.

    I know, I was kidding, observing that your comment wasn’t on the list either. 🙂

    #1038573
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Squeak, I am offended by your attempts to pass double strollers on the sidewalk. (Sorry, I just needed to vent.)

    #1038574
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    squeak,

    im offended by people who are offended by double strollers, if those kids were grown up (like 3 & 4 they would be holding their mothers hands and for sure you cant get by

    #1038575
    squeak
    Participant

    Well I take umbrage with those who misunderstand my usage of the word offend. Gotta be real specific with this crowd.

    And yes, I’ve also been offended by toddlers walking by, but no one mentioned toddlers until now. While we’re expanding the list, lets add homeless folks, push wagons, bikes, skateboarders, and the occassional distracted (woman) driver.

    #1038576
    always here
    Participant

    wow! haifagirl & squeak! I thought someone had pulled up another old thread! very cool to *see* ya! 🙂

    *haifagirl~ please excuse my using ‘ya’ for ‘you’ 😉

    #1038577
    haifagirl
    Participant

    when should they start calling someone an “older single”

    At least 40.

    A girl who is 23 is, technically, young enough to be my granddaughter.

    #1038578
    haifagirl
    Participant

    And have you ever noticed that a child will call an 18-year-old who is married “Mrs. So-and-so” (or “Mr. So-and-so”), but will call a 50-year-old who isn’t married by his or her first name?

    And an 18-year-old will be called a “married woman,” but a 50-year-old is a “single girl.”

    #1038579
    oomis
    Participant

    There is only one thing I find offensive or have ever found offensive in the CR, and that is one poster being mean-spirited and unkind to another. I don’t like bullies. We can agree to disagree about any number of subjects (including shidduchim), but there is never any call to insult or hurt someone’s feelings. Words can hurt and scar, even anonymously.And though some people are more thin-skinned than others, I am pretty certain that only the most ignorant person would be seriously unaware that what he or she has said to someone is uncalled-for.

    #1038580
    always here
    Participant

    +1 oomis

    #1038581
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    haifagirl,

    usually children call people whatever their parents call them,

    i have a friend who i call by his first name in front of my children and my oldest child calls him that too (not sure if its in front of him though)

    #1038582
    interjection
    Participant

    And have you ever noticed that a child will call an 18-year-old who is married “Mrs. So-and-so” (or “Mr. So-and-so”), but will call a 50-year-old who isn’t married by his or her first name?

    And an 18-year-old will be called a “married woman,” but a 50-year-old is a “single girl.”

    IME I have not noticed any of the above.

    Kids tend to call adults however the adult introduced him/herself.

    Most people will refer to a 50-year-old as a woman and an 18-year-old as a girl regardless of their married status. Of course there are people who will still refer to an octogenarian as a girl and are already calling a ten-year-old a woman, but those are rare exceptions.

    #1038583
    Joseph
    Participant

    IME, in the Chareidi/Jewish world adult women are very infrequently called girls, and it is wrong to call them that IMO.

    About “older” singles, I think any age above the higher end of that particular communities general marriage age range qualifies for that term. A chosid might be called that by 22. For a yeshivish fellow that might be 25. For a member of the MO community it could be 28. And for a gentile it would be higher.

    #1038584
    haifagirl
    Participant

    The first time a child (approximately four years old) called me by my first name and the parents* didn’t say anything. I was quite taken aback. I thought, here I am, more than 20 years older than this kid, and he’s treating me as if I’m his peer, and it seems to be accepted. That was my introduction to the frum community. I got used to it, but I’ve never liked it.

    I always thought it was strange that my friends’ children would call me by my first name, yet they would call their friends’ parents (who were my age) Mrs. So-and-so.

    *For what it’s worth, many, many years later the mother of that kid told me she didn’t like when Plonit came over because Plonit always called her by her first name. Plonit, at that time, was probably 18 or 19.

    #1038585
    TheGoq
    Participant

    Dear, haifagirl you are correct they should address you based on your age and not by your marital status, but this is just human nature I am not excusing this it is wrong, but people will not change. I have found that one will not be happy if they allow society to define who they are, define yourself as long as you know you are an adult living a worthy life then the heck with them, and if it truly bothers you then tell so and so my name is Miss haifagirl not blank maybe they will get the hint maybe not. Hatzlocha.

    #1038586
    West Gate
    Member

    Some people just need to grow a thicker set of skin.

    #1038587
    kapusta
    Participant

    haifagirl, I hear where you’re coming from, and I have a related question for you. Have you ever heard someone in a social setting introduce themselves as Ms. So and So? And I’ve heard women call a store/business and give their name as Mrs. XYZ but never Ms. XYZ…

    I once heard a teenager calling her aunt (mid 30’s) by her first name only and it bugged me a little, but it seems to be standard among the younger crowd.

    Welcome back 🙂

    *kapusta*

    #1038588
    haifagirl
    Participant

    I have heard people introducing themselves as Mr. (or Ms./Mrs./Miss) So-and-so. That’s really not correct. A person should introduce himself (or herself) by his (or her) first and last name. The person should then respond by calling him (or her) Mr. (or Ms./Mrs./Miss) So-and-so until told to do otherwise.

    I have noticed a lack of etiquette in the frum community. Don’t get me started on table manners!

    #1038589
    cozimjewish
    Member

    haifagirl – I don’t agree. Obviously it depends on the situation (a twenty-year-old should not introduce herself to a middle aged person as “Miss”, for example), however, if somebody introduces themselves as Mr/Mrs/Miss etc, that is evidently how they wish to be addressed, and it is usually appropriate. I have only heard older people introducing themselves to younger people in this fashion.

    #1038590
    oomis
    Participant

    It’s so odd – I personally prefer being called by my first name, NOT Mrs. ________. In the VERY olden days, there were no last names. It was not disresepctful to refer to people by name.

    #1038591
    vayoel moshe
    Member

    One thing people find offensive is me 😉

    #1038592
    ivory
    Member

    Posters commenting on things they know nothing about just for the sake of posting!

    #1038593
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I agree, Ivory. I also get offended (as most of you have heard many times) when people complain about things that happen in their communities and state it as a world wide Jewish issue, such as, “frum people are so . . .” or “BY school always . . .” Not only is it disrespectful to all the other Jewish communities and institutions, it’s just plain inaccurate. And since it’s usually negative, it’s serious motzei shem ra.

    #1038594
    oomis
    Participant

    SL – you’re right.

    #1038595
    writersoul
    Participant

    Haifagirl: I absolutely see your point about the name thing. My mom (who was an older single and whose close friends were older singles as I was growing up) always referred to all of her friends by first name, whether they were married or single, in order to prevent any disparity. She felt that Miss Plonit was stuffy and that we had our own aunts and uncles, so for her this was the best solution. And it worked- the only reason why I referred to my mom’s friend ever as Mrs Plonit was because she was also my classmate’s mom. And now that all of my mother’s friends are married we’re still on a first name basis.

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