- This topic has 26 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 3 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
In this weeks Yated- teaching Savlanus (and other Midos) in the Yeshiva of Kelm, sparked serious discussion at my Shabbos table.
R’ Lipshutz’s remembers his Zaidy R’ Levin… R’ Lipshutz quotes his Zaidy: “Every boy who came to Kelm was examined by the Alter and the people who came after him and given a middah, a trait,which he was to work on during his period in the Kelmer Yeshiva. Mein Middah iz geven Savlanus. To me, they gave the trait of Savlanus,remaining calm. Ziben yahr hob ich ge’arbet oif der middah…I worked on this middah for seven years…” (page 50, January 21, 2011)
This paragraph lead to a very emotional discussion at our Shabbos table.
__________________________________________________________________
Question:
If Savlanus, an extremely worthwhile Midah, can be taught, why cant we teach it today?
Was some form of negative reinforcement used, that would never be allowed today?
Have our methods of teaching and our treatment of kids, helped our kids? Are kids today better off with less serious emphasis on Midos?
I started learning the sefer Haser Kaas Mileebcha.It answers all of the above questions!
Maybe the way to teach savlanus is to have savlanus and show it. If you give it some thought do WE as parents, mechanchim, etc. show the salvanus needed to teach it? Do we show other midos and are the best role models we can be in order to teach the midos WE need to teach?
I think they emphasized HUMILITY which eliminates a lot of triggers!
Ofcourse: It may be worthwhile to read up about Kelm. Once you get more of a picture of Kelm and its exactness, please present it to us.
Reb Yaakov Kamenetzky also learnt in Kelm. During his first week, at Krias HaTorah the gabbai called up a Yisroel for the Cohen’s aliya, assuming no Cohanim were present. Reb Yaakov pointed out that there was indeed a Cohen present. He wasn’t thanked, he was punished. Was not allowed into the Bais Medrash for a day. His crime: Looking around durring davening.
Ofcourse: You’re welcome. I don’t think I even scratched the surface of Kelm
Another taste of Kelm:
(I have heard of, but have not seen for myself) A well know Gadol who is still alive today (AMUSH) who says in the middle of a Shmuz “This is what has to be done if you find out your pants are Shatnez” and goes ahead and takes them off (in front of all those present).
Sheviras Hamiddos!
May we be so strong.
gavra_at_work: This “gadol” could not have learnt in th Kelmer talmud Torah. Its not a taste of Kelm at all.
TBT:
Of course he didn’t, he would be well over 120 at this point (for real Kelm).
The idea is Mussar vs. a non Mussar approach.
OC: That assumes the Gadol cares one Iota for his own Kavod, and doesn’t feel the lesson taught to his talmidim is more critical.
Gedolim may not care for their own covod but they care a great deal about Covod Ha Torah, which they represent
Mr. 80:
That is why I said the second point. Limud goes before Kavod.
Besides, if it did actually happen, do you have a Hava Amina that Kavod HaTorah would be Doche the Issur of Shatnez?
i wouldnt poskin based on an article from the aish website.
im sure it depends on which garment and who is present and the weather conditions
there are factors of sakana and covod ha briah which need to be considerd.
gavra_at_work: here are some of the people who learnt in Kelm (amongst many others..)
Reb Nosson Vachtfogel of Lakewood
Reb Yaakov Kaminetzky
Reb Elya Lopian
Reb Chazkel Levenstein Zecher tzadikim L’vrocho.
The OP also mentions the article about Reb Layzer Levin
If these are the Talmidim, they’re approach is the one I would believe is closer to the Kelmer approach. And there are honest books out there about them.
i thought that was Slobodka
Mod 80: the story? I read it about Kelm. Writers do occasionally interchange stories.
i didnt get the impession from the story that he was wearing shaatnez, only that he was illustrating with action what would need to be done in the event he was.
limud comes before covod cannot be applied so broadly, certainly not to a Godol removing his pants before a rabbim. do you think a Godol would teach while sitting on a Sefer Torah to make some point of limud?
I just learned something:
Someone who discovers they are wearing shatnez is required to remove the garment immediately.
Of Course. That is the point.
could be Kelm, my memory has a leak.
limud comes before covod cannot be applied so broadly, certainly not to a Godol removing his pants before a rabbim. do you think a Godol would teach while sitting on a Sefer Torah to make some point of limud?
If needed, Yes. No less than Avraham Avinu told Eliezer to place his hand on his Makom Milah, since it was needed. (Just thought of that off hand as an example, don’t ask me specific questions)
I don’t feel you need to follow his Mehalech (I’m not of that camp), so don’t feel it is required. I imagine many Roshei Yeshiva would never think to do such a thing.
okay
Re:the Shatnez inyan,keep in mind that once upon a time even undergarments were fairly modest.D’rache’ha darchei no’am.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.