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I’m interested in hearing what others think of this thought, whether they agree with this or not.
The churban was a culminaton of years of sinning and consequently ongoing weakening of the Jews so the Churban really happened slowly, building up to a crescendo. The culmination of this all lead to the time being ripe for the total Churban but the catalyst that caused the flames to ignite and burst into wildfire and there was no going back was when the Jews killed Zacharia Hanovi or the story with Bar Kamtza.
So the destruction of the Bais Hamikdoshes were not two occurances rather a culmination of hundreds of years of events that lead to each churban.
I think the geulah too, will be a culmination of events that will lead to moshiach’s arrival. In other words the belief that Moshiach can come any day is the idea that any day the process of geulah can start. And I believe, looking at world events that the process of Moshiach’s arrival has started. I don’t want to sound like I have an heretic idea, so maybe someone can explain to me if my idea is wrong or not, but my idea is that Moshiach will not just pop up from one day to the next rather it will be a culmination of events that will lead us to a time that is ripe and there will be one thing that will be the catalyst, the spark and Moshiach will arrive.
Yes, it’s a culmination of a number of events.
BUT….
This culminating event of the white donkey and shofar blowing, etc. can happen at any moment now. That is what the ANI MAAMIN means.
Eliyahu will explain how it happened.
Our eyes will be opened and we will understand.
Until then all is cloudy.
(not my vort)
In the Islamic religious tradition it is written that before the arrival of the Mahdi, the Dajjal will appear riding a white donkey.
In Mesechta Sanhedrin 98a the color of the donkey that Moshiach will ride is described as multicolored.
philo, i dont have sources for you but i am fairly certain that it is well held that Moshiach can ARRIVE on any day (except Erev Shabbos)
First off, you are not equating two equal concepts. The two Churbanos did not happen slowly. The Chato’im built up slowly. Definitely the Ge’ula is also a culmination of Zechusim.
Second of all, the Moderator was actually refering to a Gemara in Eiruvin which says that if someone accepts upon himself to be a Nazir on the day Mashiach comes, he may only drink wine on Shabbos because otherwise any other day he might come or in fact have come.
Another point to keep in mind is that the Churban was a natural thing that Hashem allowed and arranged, but the Ge’ula is an unnatural thing. The Maharal explains that when help comes from that level it comes in one shot, because the nature didn’t produce it so it doesn’t need time, which is nature’s way of getting things moving.
The events you refer to are what lead up to make the situation ripe for Mashiach to come. In that sense all of world events in the past were part of that lead up.
There is a Medrash that says that the year that Moshiach will come, the Yidden will be saying, the world is going on as ever before, can it be Moshiach will come this year?
As you read in that article, with our Zechusim we can hopefully speed up the process. But in either case the actual coming is not a natural and slowly gaining process.
If you are able to, you can learn through the Maharal’s Netzach Yisroel, which is a Sefer all about the Ge’ula.
Disclaimer: I am not a mekubal nor a Rebbeh.
I just saw a Zohar (maybe in Tikkunim) which says that anybody who is mechashev the ketz is foolish, because Hashem never revealed it.
I was very puzzled, because the Zohar itself, elsewhere, does give an exact date (which unfortunately has passed). I forget it now, (although I may have once posted it on YW) but I think it was 5480.
Baba Pashuta Yid, if you are refering to the Zohar Chadash in Balak, there are different Girsaos. Perhaps it wasn’t meant to be really clear there either, especially being that it passed. We might have a Cheshbon but we don’t necessarily know the bumper date. But I’d still rather hear a better Terutz.
On a lighter note:
Perhaps you can’t know when he’ll come because some say that he already came.
Please post the sources if and when you can.
Haleivi, the source for the year (which is actually 5408, not 5480 as I posted earlier) is in Zohar Parshas Toldos, Page 30, Os 68 in my edition (Sulam). This is the year of Techiyas Hameisim.
The source for the fact that the time of Moshiach has never been revealed at all, and that it is foolish to try to calculate it is from Medrash Haneelam, Parshas Breishis Page 131, Os 347 in my edition (Sulam).
Just searched Wikipedia on Sabbatai Zevi and this is what it says:
“At age 22 in 1648, Sabbatai started declaring to his followers in Smyrna that he was the true Messianic redeemer. In order to prove this claim he started to pronounce the Tetragrammaton in Hebrew, an act which Judaism emphatically prohibited to all but the Jewish high priest in the Temple in Jerusalem on the Day of Atonement. For scholars acquainted with rabbinical, and kabbalistic literature, the act was highly symbolic. He revealed his Messiahship early on to Isaac Silveyra and Moses Pinheiro, the latter a brother-in-law of the Italian rabbi and kabbalist Joseph Ergas.”
Note that the year 1648 is 5408 according to Kaluach v. 3! That may be why he chose to reveal himself that year!
Haleivi writes:
“On a lighter note:
Perhaps you can’t know when he’ll come because some say that he already came. “
If he comes this year it will be 770.
pashuteh yid you know you have a week left.
In the Islamic religious tradition it is written that before the arrival of the Mahdi, the Dajjal will appear riding a white donkey.
In Mesechta Sanhedrin 98a the color of the donkey that Moshiach will ride is described as multicolored
I don’t think this is the appropriate forum to be discussing other religions.
this was written in explanation of the source of a common error that people make re the Moshiach. (see artchills post)
a Limud like this is perfectly appropriate, and you will find elucidative comments re other religions in the Gemorrah, Midrashim and all over the Meforshim.
the S’fas Emes holds that Moshiach’s arrival is dependent on mitzvos accumulated by Klal Yisroel, like a bank account, once the total is reached he can come-so, it can be any day. Also, why each individual’s mitzvos are so valuable & important!
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