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HaKatan: I didn’t say anything about omissions. Your answer is a non-answer – exactly what I expected from you.
yankel berel:
The Avnei Nezer never stated that the oaths are inapplicable and/or irrelevant. The Avnei Zezer agrees that the oaths are indeed relevant and applicable, as brought by numerous poskim throughout the ages and as unfortunately whose deadly punishment was seen – and documented – by chazal throughout the ages.As mentioned to you above, but seemingly ignored:
“No, he does not dispute it. In fact, from True Torah Jews Org site (read the whole thing):
“He answers that the Jewish Oaths were imposed on the roots of the Jewish souls in Heaven…At this point, the Avnei Nezer is bothered: …how could there be a punishment for violating them? He answers that “I will permit your flesh as the gazelles and deer of the field” is not to be understood as a direct punishment, but as a cutting off of Hashem’s protection that comes as a result of the sin…Hashem’s providence and supervision is removed from the body, and the body is left as ownerless as the wild animals, which have no soul.”Clearly, it would be devastating to violate the oaths, even according to the Avnei Nezer and it is very dishonest to imply otherwise – as the Zionists idolaters do.”
So, yes; you are left with, at most, an academic question.
BUT zionists aren’t WORRIED about kurais or mass death. They think it is honorable for jewish boys to die en masse for their political state. Thats how they worship their god. That’s what their dati leumi priests teach them.
you willfully ignore the CLEAR FACT that AVNE NEZER writes that the shavu’ot are NOT LEHALACHA and THEREFORE ARE OMITTED BY ALL POSKIM
so you are left with a dispute .
according to satmar rav they are halacha , according to avne nezer they are not halacha
according to avne nezer they are merely A SIMAN for the persons connection to HKBH and his neshama
when will you acknowledge this oh so clear DISPUTE …..
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.@AAQ
satmar rav takes issue with avne nezer’s pshat in the gemara in his vayoel moshe mentioning him by name
but I have not found that he directly addresses the issue of the gaping hole in all halachik codifiers which avne nezer clearly raises .
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.@yankel-berel
“but I have not found that he directly addresses the issue of the gaping hole in all halachik codifiers which avne nezer clearly raises .”lol. you must be either joking or have zero integrity. Satmar Rebbe actually wrote a whole book about this question called “Vayoel Moshe” and that includes a specific “mamar shalosh shevios” where he ask and strengthens this question from multiple angles, He specifically brings the avnei nezer’s statement that the shevios are “not l’haluche” and the Satmar Rebbe double down and emphasis the point the Avnei Nezer is making. The Satmar Rebbes kasha on Avnei Nezer was NOT about the clear point of “lo l’haluche”, rather his kasha on the Avnei Nezer was in how he understood Rashi (a kasha he is metaretz to matzdik the Avnei Nezer).
This isn’t even hard to find, as Vayoel Moshe has long been printed with an index of sources. “Avnei” starts with an “Aleph”.
So, @yankel-berel, are you indeed joking or do you simply have no integrity?
“BUT zionists aren’t WORRIED about kurais or mass death. They think it is honorable for jewish boys to die en masse for their political state. Thats how they worship their god. That’s what their dati leumi priests teach them.”
This is pure slander and you know it.
Stop calling RZ Rabbonim by terms such as “priests”.
some> He specifically brings the avnei nezer’s statement
so, what is Satmar Rebbe saying about the argument about halachik codices that do not include discussion of 3 shevuos?
To ZSK
No, he doesn’t know it. When people become consumed by some issue all rationality falls by the wayside.
hello – welcome back
am waiting for you on the other thread – you were going to spell out why zionism is necessarily against the 13 ikarim
which ikar , and how so , remember ?
we are waiting and waiting ….
b’h you are alive and well ….
—now regarding your question whether I am joking or lost my integrity ….
the answer is : neither ….
avne nezer clearly says the shavu’oth are not lehalacha
with a new pshat in the gemara
and puts those two points together
and therefore the poskim left out the shavu’oth
as the essay by daniel pinner rightly points out
now I did not learn vayoel moshe recently
its probably some years ago
I do remember satmar rave taking issue with avne nezer ‘s new pshat
but I do not remember him specifically addressing the exact point which this essay highlights and
which was also obviously bothering avne nezer
therefore I wrote in good faith – not joking – , that I have not found where satmar rav addresses this point raised by avne nezer [and daniel pinner]
about hashmatat haposkim
even when reading your post , I have not found an answer to this specific point
do you have an answer ?
would you care to share it with us ?
without diversion to a different topic ….
avne nezer did not have another one , besides his own ….
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.dati leumi priests ….. [somejew]
—to call the NK murderers is also not accurate …
but more accurate
than calling the dati leumi rabanim ‘priests’ ….
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.There is no need to go to the “Oaths” issue nowadays. לכל הדעות there is no prohibition for an individual to move here, then or now, and there is no chiyuv for the tzibbur to leave once they got here. There are also many reasons to be opposed to various aspects of the State and some of its institutions that have nothing to do with the oaths. So what is the point of the debate?
satmar rav, as far as I can remember, does not address hashmatat haposkim
please correct me , with his answer and page number ….
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.otherwise we will have to ask somejew the following question :
are you joking ?
or did you lose your integrity ?
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.Agree with yaakov yosef re the point of no practical application of the oaths in any case
but this has become a staple of the continuous hijacking attempt
am referring to the repeated attempts to co opt legitimate protesters against evil influences and evil actions by the medina
and remake them into blind , no-matter-the-cost , fanatical opponents of the medina …
these are misleading and dishonest portrayals of the mainstream majority haredi rabanim
that’s the reason of the recurring debate about the oaths
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.To the group
I agree with Yaakov Yosef A that this discussion serves no purpose. The State of Israel exists, and Jews have two choices, support it or keep your mouths shut. Threads like this one encourage lunatics to vent and no purpose is served other than to add some coals to their eventual Gehinnom.
We Jews have the choice to actively reject the violent state called “Israel”, condemn those evil people who support that state, and work to teach those Jews who have been misled that the path of Torah is not the path of Zionism or any other false moshiach.
We Jews have the choice to actively reject the NK who join murderers , condemn those evil people who implicitly support violence against our own brothers , and work to teach those Jews who have been misled , that the path of Torah is not the path of NK or any other false substitute for ga’avah and bad midoth .
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.Agree with YYA. These arguments are purposeless.
SJ: Just give it a rest already. It appears people are getting sick of you and your cronies non-stop hijacking of threads with your cries of “Gevalt! Zionism!”. And anyway, you don’t live in Israel, so your opinion is completely irrelevant whinging.
@yankel-berel
NK, as much as I have ever seen them regularly exclaim, never support any violence from any side. They explicitly claim not to support the palestinian resistance as well as the zionist resistance. They DO claim that their agenda is specifically to decrease violence towards “our brothers”, members of Klal Yisroel.
@zsk
I have been staying directly on topic, you don’t know where I live, and the Torah is true regardless of my failings. So, I’m not sure my you post empty criticisms. Is that what kureis feels like, rushe?To yankel berel
You know how much I like and respect you and it’s to that point that I reiterate my suggestion that you don’t waste time arguing with SJ. Nebach, he’s another lost soul. As to your claim that you want to save others who will be misled, no one is interested in their insanity.
To somejew
To your credit, you have good Middos and don’t resort to name-calling like YYA. Unfortunately, I and almost every other Jew, completely reject everything you stand for.
SJ: you’re right, I don’t know where you live. Monroe, Kiryas Joel, Monsey, Stamford Hill, Antwerp or Brooklyn make more sense for the likes of you, as opposed to somewhere like Y-lm, Bnei Brak or Kiryat Sefer. Go ahead and correct me.
My criticism of you is not without basis or merit. Every single criticism others have made of you and your opinions are exactly why I just told you to shut it already. But also bizui talmidei chachamim and whole litany of aveiros associated with lashon hara. I don’t need to rehash them.
You’re really fast to call people names and hurt insults, but this is the internet and you can easily hide behind a screen. If I’m an evil person, you don’t know what evil – or a truly bad person – is.
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