June 30, 2010 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #591882MOMof4Member
I was wondering that since we don’t listen to music during the 3 weeks then why is Yeshiva World playing regular music as opposed to Acappela. Am I the only one bothered by this? I really love listening to YW music because of the variety of songs played.June 30, 2010 3:57 pm at 3:57 pm #883719
Shouldnt this be taken up with YWN directly?June 30, 2010 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #883720YW Moderator-80Member
Perhaps because the Chiuv is on you to not listen. You have to click on it to hear it. There are many Poskim who mater listening to music that is not live, for anyone. And Poskim who permit it under certain circumstances to certain people.July 1, 2010 12:38 am at 12:38 am #883721sof davar hakol nishmaMember
it’s the same as any other thing that is offered by yidden and you can’t accept. Why are FRUM clothing shop owners selling untznius/unfitting clothes? True They shouldn’t but it’s our choice , we have bechira to chose the right from wrong. Applies to music… and anything else. (BTW – many poskim hold accapella is also assur)July 4, 2010 1:50 pm at 1:50 pm #883722tralalaMember
there are so many jewish cd’s without music, maybe an idea for ywn?July 4, 2010 2:34 pm at 2:34 pm #883723WIYMember
We are talking about the Churban Bais Hamikdosh here and the 2000 years of painful golus. What does it say about us if for 3 weeks we can’t go without music. We need “Heteirim” to listen to music? The fact that we can’t go 3 weeks without music during the time of Aveilus for the Bais Hamikdosh is truly something we should be crying and saying kinnos over.July 5, 2010 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm #883724
To follow along the theme expressed by wellinformed. I asked my rav what is and what isnt muttar to listen to during the three weeks. He told me, lets leave the halachic angle out of the discussion for a second and look at the hashkafa of the question. If someone was R’L in aveilus for a parent, would they listen to taped or acapella music?July 5, 2010 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #883725Max WellMember
Indeed, hashkofos are always important.
You should be following the spirit of the law, not just the letter of the law.July 6, 2010 4:04 am at 4:04 am #883726Aishes ChayilParticipant
Reb Itzikel of Psehvorsk once told someone who asked if something was permitted in the 9 days answered as follows:
‘When times were good and things were prosperous, there should have been a more stringent take on this period.
However, since we are in such a painful, sad golus, we should be able to ‘breath’ a bit.’July 6, 2010 9:32 am at 9:32 am #883727YW Moderator-42Moderator
Why would someone who doesn’t listen to music be listening to YWN Radio during the 3 weeks? The only people who are listening to it are those who do listen to recorded music anyway so why should YW deprive these people of a great source of good Jewish music?
The only question I can see here is for those people in between who listen to Acapella. The question is why doesn’t YW provide that. I assume that they didn’t bother making any changes to the YWN Radio because that would cost money and would take away from the Moderators’ salaries.July 6, 2010 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #883728
Rav Simcha Bunim Cohens sefer/book by Artscroll on the “Three Weeks” pretty clearly states that most ( I believe it says “almost all”, but am not 100% certain) poskim agree that recorded music should not be listened to during the three weeks (I didnt read the list of poskim he brings in the footnotes). He even says there are many poskim who dont allow listening to “singing without musical accompanyment” (which I assume means acapella).
It is important to point out that many poskim dont agree with listening to music, live or taped the whole year, zecher lechurban. In one of R’ Moshe Z’l tshuvos about listening to taped music during sefira, he begins by asking, who said it is muttar all year long.July 6, 2010 4:40 pm at 4:40 pm #883729outoftowner123Member
This is Rabbi Sobolofsky who goes into detail regarding the Halachot, including the opinion of Rav Feinstein ZTL. Its important to understand that just because someone listens to music all year long or during the 3 weeks, doesn’t mean they are committing an aveirah or going against halacha. Anyone who thinks such is obviously misinformed of the actual differing opinions. It’s important for people to follow their Rav and ask their own sheilah.July 6, 2010 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #883730
I didnt mean to imply that Rav Moshe Assured listening to music at any time. Was trying to point out that listening to music at any time during the year is not such a clear cut issue overall.
Rav SB Cohens sefer DOES say that many poskim (it may even say most – but I dont remember) forbid listening to recorded music during the three weeks and goes so far as to say that a number of poskim even forbid listening to acapella (even SINGING is assur according to some poskim).
Of course, everyone should follow their own Rav, that goes without saying.July 6, 2010 5:39 pm at 5:39 pm #883731yaff80Participant
Why cant this music be for the sefardim, who only keep shevua shechol boi tisha b’av?
Those who are ashkeneizi should have self control not to press the play button.
Is it not similar to shabbos? When shabbos come in, in E.Y, it is still Fri in USA. The israelis are not mechalel shabbos to listen to music just because YWN are playing it?July 6, 2010 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #883732
Yaff80. I am sephardi and we hold no music during the 3 weeks. Shevua Shechol Boi, is no showering, swimming, and laundry. But, according to our Rabbi definetly no music.July 6, 2010 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #883733
Just went to double check my book on the 3 weeks and I was correct. Quote from book Halachot and History of the Three weeks “Shaare Rahamim Halachot Series”
1.” Music is forbidden because it leads to joy. No distinction is made between live music at a party or music from a radio or tape, even listened to in private. This ban is upheld by Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef, Shilta, and Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, Zt’l.”
2. “Group singing should not be engaged (e.g. in camp) but singing to Hashem, i.e. during Prayer, is permitted.”
3. “One who earns his livelihood in the music field is permitted to work until Rosh Chodesh, Av. However, on the seventeenth of Tammaus and from Rosh Chodesh (including Rosh Chodesh)till Tishah B’Av, he should refrain from doing so.”July 6, 2010 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm #883734
Even Dancing without music during the 3 weeks is not allowed with out questiont the entire 3 weeks for Sephardim and Ashkenazim. This Halachah is brought down in the Magen Avraham, Aliah Rabbah, Prei Megadim, Kaf Hachaim and many others.July 6, 2012 1:10 am at 1:10 am #883735SayIDidIt™Participant
May Moshiach come first!July 6, 2012 2:10 am at 2:10 am #883736Song of BlessingParticipant
Amein!! 3 weeks without music x_x my worst nightmare. I get a heter for the Omer but I hate doing that if we can’t listen we can’t listen….July 6, 2012 3:01 am at 3:01 am #883737SayIDidIt™Participant
SiDitrade;July 6, 2012 6:11 am at 6:11 am #883738
Wait I thought accapella is ONLY for sfiras haomerJuly 6, 2012 6:26 am at 6:26 am #883739YW Moderator-42Moderator
Shopping, as you can see if you read this thread there are many different opinions/minhagim regarding this. Some are machmir not to listen to even accapela and others will even listen to recorded music. Some are more machmir during 3 weeks then during sefira, others are not. Personally, I try to follow the spirit of the halacha and therefore try to avoid acapela that is rocky but will listen to slow, hartzig acapela songs, especially ones that have to do with Yerushalayim, the churban, etc.July 6, 2012 6:37 am at 6:37 am #883740
Oh..you think I have the pacience to read all this?July 6, 2012 12:35 pm at 12:35 pm #883741ChortkovParticipant
There are two types of singing without music: Something like the Maccabeats, which is one guy singing and the others making sounds r singing as the music – that may be assur and is definitely not in the spirit. You can also get something like Dudi Kalish, which is just a choir of people harmonizing – no music. THat is even in the spirit of Sefira to listen to.July 6, 2012 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #883742BTGuyParticipant
I would also add that a capella is no less musical/music than sounds created by things of wood, brass, and strings.July 6, 2012 1:16 pm at 1:16 pm #883743
Apushatayid: Rav Moshe does Assur listening to music all year round (OC 1:167, if I recall correctly). People are confused about this because in YD 2:54 (give or take a few Simanim, maybe 56) he explains a different Shittah. But it’s clear (to me, at least) that he holds like the T’shuvah in OC 1.July 6, 2012 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #883744
Btw a lot of ‘acapella’ is made by the computer such examples are: akapella and the maccabeatsJuly 6, 2012 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #883745
Shopping: I think the Maccabeats are straight voices (I don’t know if that changes anything). They don’t computerize it.July 7, 2012 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #883746
I listened to a concert of theirs and they sounded much worse than on the Cd. On youtube it shows a live performance of them videoed by someone other than them and they sound horribleJuly 8, 2012 1:40 pm at 1:40 pm #883747haifagirlParticipant
I would also add that a capella is no less musical/music than sounds created by things of wood, brass, and strings.
Thank you.July 8, 2012 3:55 pm at 3:55 pm #883748
Yes, but the issue is not how musical it sounds but rather whether it has the Halachic status of Zimra B’manah or Zimra B’puma.July 9, 2012 3:02 am at 3:02 am #883749YW BandMember
This year there is a kulah, that since Tisha B’av is a nidcha, it is mutar m’ikur hadin to listen to music right after the fast but our minhag is to wait til the next morning (before chatzos). This applies to meat & wine as well, but everything else is mutar already after the fast.July 9, 2012 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #883750
YW Band: Any source for having to wait until the next morning for music? (Not having meat and wine that night is strange enough, but at least that is brought down and seems to be accepted practice). And it’s not a Kula, it’s more Chamur than most years. Usually you can do all of these things at Chatzos of Yud. This year you need to wait until (at least) Tzeis of Yud.July 9, 2012 3:07 pm at 3:07 pm #883751RABBAIMParticipant
Is it time to be machmir on feeling loss of Batei Mikdash and show Hashem how much we miss it and need it. If we look for leniences in music or in aveilus in general we will not feel the loss as intensely and cannot cry or mourn or beg for what is missing with the same depth. Small things DO make a difference!July 9, 2012 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #883752BTGuyParticipant
You’re velcro. lol. (You’re welcome).
After reading this thread I am totally confused about if its ok or not to: play music for others (as YWN), listen to music, listen to live music, listen to recorded music, listen to computerized “music/muzak”, or a capella (also depending on how it is created), during the Three Weeks.
But, to be safe, I will Bl”N (only in case I forget and pop in a CD or hit a preset on the car radio and suddenly remember to shut it off), try not to listen to music, but I know I will hear it.
Oh, if you hear music but make an effort to not “get into it”, is that ok?
Maybe we need a hechsher on music…July 10, 2012 4:35 am at 4:35 am #883753
BTGuy: Almost everything in this topic is dependent upon Minhag because so many of these are new issues that never existed before, so it’s hard to have a set Halachah on it and many different people were Noheg many different ways. The point is to show our Aveilus on the Churban. Now, that doesn’t mean Assering everything we can think of and it doesn’t mean Mattering everything. It means you discuss with your Rav whatever would be best for you.
(I remember growing up not listening to any music at all during S’firah and the 3 weeks and I always thought it was an Issur Gamur. Then I remember being shocked when I saw the Nitei Gavriel, who is very far from a Meikil, bring down that the Minhag is to listen to slow songs, even with instruments. I had never even thought that such a Minhag could exist. But it was a great lesson for me in not assuming that what I had ever seen was the be-all end-all for Halachah.)May 1, 2017 9:44 am at 9:44 am #1266689
I was told by a Rav that slow music is okay l’chatchila. And I think there are opinions that any non-live music is okay. Of course, everyone should ask their own sheilaha. I am just pointing these things out in terms of judging others.May 1, 2017 9:44 am at 9:44 am #1266681
Some people have a heter to listen to music during sefira because it’s too hard for them to be without music for so long. In that case, it’s better to listen to acapella (that’s the psak I got).
Regarding the poster who compared it to someone in aveilus, l”a, I know a girl whose mother was nifter and it was really hard for her to be without music (I suspect she suffered from depression or something similar, which apparently is true of a very large portion of the population nowadays). Her Rav told her that she only had to refrain from listening to goyish music (which apparently she normally listened to).
Even without special heteirim, there are many opinions regarding what one is and is not allowed to listen to during sefira, so certainly no one should be judging anyone else (unless they are holding a public concert with live music, and then maybe you should just assume that they don’t know better).May 1, 2017 10:27 am at 10:27 am #1266718
Please note – the first post of mine was written as a continuation of the second post.
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