Tiferes Shlomo and the modern State of Israel

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  • October 24, 2025 11:53 am at 11:53 am #2462861
    yankel berel
    Participant

    I am also confused

    why are hazals definitions of galut not good ‘working definitions’ ?

    I did not post “random musings” …

    I posted hazal’s definitions of galut

    why are hazal’s definitions not ‘commonly agreed foundations’ ?

    I am not disagreeing perse with anything you wrote

    just that it is hollow ,incomplete and therefore misleading , to define a concept by only one characteristic …

    all explanations by hazal are relevant …

    .
    .
    or not ?
    .
    .

    October 26, 2025 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #2463013
    somejewiknow@gmail.com
    Participant

    maybe i am just having issue parsing your words. please make a concrete statement like “Gulis is ….”, so we will (hopefully) have a baseline agreement of what we are talking about.

    [btw, i mean the thing we formally call “gulis” since chorbon bayis rishon, and perhaps since shibid mitzroyim. I don’t mean the nonspecific generalized word that could mean “gulis from my fathers house” or “personal gulis from myself”, etc. It is valuable you brought this up and the exact reason I want to clarify this word now.]

    October 27, 2025 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #2463915
    somejewiknow@gmail.com
    Participant

    @yankel-berel

    Bump to keep this thread up. If still want my answer, I am awaiting your response.

    October 28, 2025 10:12 am at 10:12 am #2464044
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    I have been reading the wicked comments of HaKatan and UJM
    for more than two years, and I noticed that they *** NEVER ***
    criticize the Nazis or the Arabs or the Muslims,
    and they *** NEVER *** blame the Nazis or the Arabs or the Muslims
    for *** ANY *** problem.

    Instead, they blame “The Zionists” for 100% of the problems, 100% of the time.

    This false version of History is disgusting anti-Semitic Victim Blaming,
    and it is the symptom of minds that are very sick and very dangerous to Jews.

    October 28, 2025 10:12 am at 10:12 am #2464050
    yankel berel
    Participant

    have not forgotten

    will post bln
    .

    October 28, 2025 10:13 am at 10:13 am #2464080
    yankel berel
    Participant

    @somejew

    galut includes :

    shibud malhuyot in the form of onerous taxes specifically on the jews

    shibud malhuyot as they interfere with kiyum hamitsvot

    lack of malhut beit david

    dispersion of the yehudim all around the world

    being far from EY

    lacking the avoda

    lacking the tahara engendered by hakravat hakorbanot

    lacking the BHMK

    lacking hashra’at hashechina

    the tsa’ar hashchina

    physical tsarot as a result of shibud malhuyot

    the immense power of the se’or sheba’issa or the yetser hara

    the fact that most of the world’s inhabitants are not aware of the RBSHO and his torah

    lacking the required menucha needed to delve into torah properly

    lacking batei din smuchim

    —

    that is as far as my mind goes at this moment

    all of the above is included in galut

    and will be restored when mashiach will come , may it be soon in our days
    .
    .

    October 29, 2025 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #2465501
    yankel berel
    Participant

    @somejew

    hello

    your requested definition is here
    .
    .

    October 31, 2025 9:38 am at 9:38 am #2466321
    yankel berel
    Participant

    @somejew

    just as reminder

    everything on the list above comes from hazal and sefarim kdoshim

    nothing is my own

    all of the above is kasher to be used as a ‘shared foundation and starting point’ for discussion.
    .

    November 2, 2025 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #2466875
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    SomeJewIKnow, you should save yourself lots of time and effort,
    by admitting that Yankel Berel is smarter than you are,
    and LISTEN to what he says, instead of trying to argue with him.

    November 8, 2025 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #2469122
    yankel berel
    Participant

    hello mr somejew

    this is not a competition in intellect at all

    this is a conversation re the proof that , zionism nowadays, is against any ikarei emuna

    where we are still waiting for somejew to substantiate this claim

    we are waiting along time already …..

    .

    November 9, 2025 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #2469777
    yankel berel
    Participant

    Thought that somejew went on an extended holiday

    but then he popped up on one of the other threads ….

    so mr somejew …

    we were in the middle of a conversation …

    you were going to prove that zionism is a contradiction to the ikarei emuna ….

    you were even going to pinpoint which of the ikarei emuna it contradicts and why …

    you were going to prove that it is impossible to be a religious zionist , because those two terms have to contradict each other …

    am still waiting ….

    .

    November 10, 2025 12:21 pm at 12:21 pm #2469956
    yankel berel
    Participant

    so many questions ….

    so many questions katan , somejew and ujm are ignoring …

    why are they not answering ….

    does it have anything to do with the possibility that they simply do not have the answers …..

    does it have anything to do with the possibility that they fear that their own answers will incriminate their own shittot …..
    .
    .

    November 12, 2025 12:03 pm at 12:03 pm #2470998
    yankel berel
    Participant

    it seems that shtika is kehoda’ah ….

    zionism is not necessarily against any of the ikarei emuna
    .
    .

    November 13, 2025 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm #2471477
    yankel berel
    Participant

    katan and somejew

    would you use a zionist neurosurgeon ?

    .

    .

    November 15, 2025 8:58 pm at 8:58 pm #2472175
    yankel berel
    Participant

    katan and somejew went on an extended holiday …..

    how convenient ….

    no need to answer questions ….

    no accountability ….
    .
    .

    November 16, 2025 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #2472574
    Yaakov Yosef A
    Participant

    I just noticed this thread. The opening quote has no shaychus to “The modern State of Israel”, which no one dreamed of during the lifetime of the Tiferes Shlomo. (The reference to “Arabs” is also not an issue. The Turks, who followed the religion started by Arabs, were commonly referred to by Jews as “Yishmaelim”.)

    Idea for new threads:

    1. SQUARE_ROOT posts some out of context quote from Gedolim of previous generations supposedly contradicting the current Chareidi positions on controversial issues, usually relating to the matzav in Israel where most of the commentors don’t live, and have limited knowledge of the facts on the ground. It is strongly implied that today’s Gedolei Yisroel somehow are unaware of the “secret information” picked up by SQUARE_ROOT (usually in English translation from a secondhand source.)

    2. Immediately ujm, someJew, and HaKatan jump into the fray with hyperbolic comments about dismantling the State, oaths, kofrim, etc. None of which is necessary for demolishing the fake ????? of SQUARE_ROOT.

    3. The more levelheaded commenters then engage ujm etc. in weeks-long debate about theoretical issues that may have been relevant before the founding of the State, but no longer have any practical ???? ????. Again, none of this has anything to do with the starting comment.

    4. So is born YET ANOTHER “not-really-Zionist-anyway” vs. “hyper-anti-Zionist” verbal MMA match with no ?????…

    5. The site owners make money from clickbait.

    6. Wash, rinse, repeat.

    November 17, 2025 10:06 am at 10:06 am #2472720
    yankel berel
    Participant

    tactics of somejew , ujm and katan

    within the overall strategy of propaganda in favor of their almost idol like misrepresentation of judaism

    repeat ad nauseam baseless exaggerations about the evil of zionism

    by quoting real gedolei yisrael out of context

    ignoring other relevant facts and obvious questions

    retreat when those questions are posed

    and reappear a while later , hoping the public will have forgotten about those unanswered question

    and restart with the very same baseless exaggerations and lack of context

    all the while relying – or hoping to rely – on the public’s short memory ….
    .
    .

    November 17, 2025 10:06 am at 10:06 am #2472741
    ZSK
    Participant

    @YYA – That’s really accurate. And quite funny.

    November 18, 2025 9:59 am at 9:59 am #2473409
    ujm
    Participant

    And, again, for the umpteenth time both Yaakov and Yankel attribute to me what they confused from hearing by others even though I said nothing. In fact, other than one minor comment pointing out the context of someone’s comment, I hadn’t even posted in this thread.

    November 23, 2025 10:47 am at 10:47 am #2475255
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    Yaakov Yosef A said this on 2025 November 16 at 6:56 pm:

    It is strongly implied that today’s Gedolei Yisroel somehow
    are unaware of the “secret information” picked up by
    SQUARE_ROOT (usually in English translation from a secondhand source.)

    __________________________________________
    MY RESPONSE:

    I * NEVER * said that.
    I * NEVER * intended to say that.
    I * NEVER * intended to imply that.
    I * NEVER * even thought that!

    Yaakov Yosef A, you have accused me falsely!

    I feel disappointed, because I really thought that you were better than that.

    By accusing me falsely, you have [almost] descended to
    the level of brainwashed fanatics like UJM and HaKatan,
    who make false accusations, and do not know when to stop.

    I do not know what you were experiencing or thinking
    when you said that, but I urge you to re-consider.

    Thank you, and I wish you a happy Rosh Chodesh.

    November 23, 2025 10:47 am at 10:47 am #2475286
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    Yaakov Yosef A said this on 2025 November 16 at 6:56 pm:

    “…SQUARE_ROOT posts some out of context
    quote from Gedolim of previous generations…”

    __________________________________________
    MY RESPONSE:

    Could you please explain precisely
    how I posted “some out of context quote”?

    Please assume that I do not know – because I really do not know.

    Maybe you could explain how these 5 quotes are “out of context”:

    __________________________________________
    from from the ArtScroll History Series biography
    of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 22, page 546:

    The offer of political support Rabbi Sherer made
    to Yitzchak Rabin was one he would repeat
    on many occasions to Israeli leaders.

    In a 1981 [CE] letter to Israeli Ambassador Ephraim Efron,
    for instance, he described Agudath Israel’s grassroots
    constituency as a “reservoir of manpower which is
    totally committed to the safety and security of Israel.”
    __________________________________________
    from from the ArtScroll History Series biography
    of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 22, page 547:

    In a fascinating letter to Rabbi Menachem Porush,
    written half a year after Israel’s dramatic victory
    in the Six-Day War [in year 1967 CE], Rabbi Sherer
    agreed “that what transpired were great miracles.”
    __________________________________________
    Hearing his criticisms of Zionism, someone once
    told him [Rabbi Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz],
    “I too hate the Zionists. They should be cursed.”

    “Chas v’chalilah (Heaven forbid)!”
    Reb Shraga Feivel [Mendlowitz] interjected.

    “To the contrary: They should be blessed,
    along with ALL those who are building up our Holy Land.
    I only pray that they observe mitzvos.
    But chalilah to curse or hate them.

    They are tinokos shenish’bu
    (people who never received a Jewish education and so were led astray).”

    SOURCE: Reb Shraga Feivel: the life and times
    of Rabbi Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz, the architect
    of Torah in America     (chapter 16, page 228)
    by Yonoson Rosenblum for Artscroll / Mesorah,
    year 2001, based on Aharon Sorasky’s Shelucha DeRachmana,
    ISBNs: 157819797X, 9781578197972, 1578197961, 9781578197965
    __________________________________________
    In a conversation with the Satmar Rav,
    shortly after his talk on the U.N. declaration,
    Reb Shraga Feivel [Mendlowitz] was subjected
    to the sharpest criticism for his “Zionist leanings.”

    Later he told his family,
    “I could have answered him [the Satmar Rav]
    Chazal for Chazal, Midrash for Midrash,
    but I did not want to incur his wrath,
    for he is a great man and a tzaddik.”

    He added with a twinkle,
    “And besides, he has a fiery temper”…

    SOURCE: Reb Shraga Feivel: the life and times
    of Rabbi Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz, the architect
    of Torah in America     (chapter 26, page 335 to 336)
    by Yonoson Rosenblum for Artscroll / Mesorah,
    year 2001, based on Aharon Sorasky’s Shelucha DeRachmana,
    ISBNs: 157819797X, 9781578197972, 1578197961, 9781578197965
    __________________________________________
    “In 1948, after the Arabs attacked the newly declared
    Jewish state and soldiers were falling on the battlefield,
    several Roshei Yeshivah taunted Reb Shraga Feivel
    [Mendlowitz] for having recited the blessing
    HaTov VeHaMeitiv].

    Reb Shraga Feivel turned to Rabbi Aharon Kotler,
    who agreed with him that the U. N. resolution
    was indeed worthy of the blessing.”

    SOURCE: Reb Shraga Feivel: the life and times
    of Rabbi Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz, the architect
    of Torah in America     (chapter 26, page 331,
    footnote 3, heard from Rabbi Nesanel Quinn)
    by Yonoson Rosenblum for Artscroll / Mesorah,
    year 2001, based on Aharon Sorasky’s Shelucha DeRachmana,
    ISBNs: 157819797X, 9781578197972, 1578197961, 9781578197965
    __________________________________________
    Reb Yaakov [Kamenetsky] felt that but for
    the creation of the State in 1948 [CE] a million Jews
    would have become assimilated as a result of
    the despair that followed the Holocaust and
    attributed the renascence [rebirth] of Soviet Jewry
    to the miraculous Israeli military victory in 1967.

    If only the Israeli government had also recognized
    Hashem’s miraculous deliverance in 1967 [CE],
    he added, history would have been changed.

    .…

    Similarly, he [Rabbi Yaakov Kamenetsky] concluded, recognition of
    Israel’s role in preventing millions of Jews
    from losing any connection to the Jewish people
    must mitigate our kana’us, even as
    our love for our fellow Jews in Eretz Yisrael
    must “not blind us to [their] shortcomings.”

    SOURCE: Reb Yaakov: The Life and Times of HaGaon
    Rabbi Yaakov Kamenetsky     by Yonason Rosenblum,
    based on the research of Rabbi Noson Kamenetsky (chapter 11, page 209),
    Mesorah Publications, publication dates: February 1993 & January 2004,
    ISBN: 0-89906-413-2 (hardcover)
    ISBN: 0-89906-415-9 (paperback)
    __________________________________________

    I thank you in advance for enlightening
    all of us with your knowledge and wisdom.

    I wish you a happy Rosh Chodesh.
    __________________________________________

    November 23, 2025 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #2475913
    Always_Ask_Questions
    Participant

    SQRT> Reb Yaakov: The Life and Times of HaGaon Rabbi Yaakov Kamenetsky by Yonason Rosenblum, based on the research of Rabbi Noson Kamenetsky (chapter 11, page 209), Mesorah Publication

    I noticed lately a couple of books “based on” R Nosson’s work. I did not check how good the secondary sources are, but I highly recommend the original work by R Nosson. It is full of well-researched details that should give you an unbiased of the times.

    November 23, 2025 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #2475960
    Yaakov Yosef A
    Participant

    Reb SQUARE_ROOT, ?????? ????? ??????,

    1. With regard to your first post directed at me, do you know what “imply” means? By using readily available second hand material to supposedly “prove” that current Gedolei Yisroel are wrong on major issues of Hashkafa and Hanhaga (even without saying so explicitly), you IMPLY that you know better than they do because – you know how to read an Artscroll biography?! I am criticizing the IMPLICATIONS of your posts, not their literal content.

    2. WRT your second post, do you rely on Artscroll biographies for authoritative information on anything else, other than source material for new “coffee room” threads?

    3. That being said, none of the quotes you mentioned are in any way Hashkafic “game changers”. One doesn’t need to curse Zionists or to not see any positive side to anything they ever did in order to be opposed to drafting Yeshiva bochurim etc.

    November 24, 2025 2:05 pm at 2:05 pm #2476033
    yankel berel
    Participant

    Square root reminds me of somejew and katan

    just from the other side of the fence

    both sides erroneously think they know better than the overwhelming majority of gdolei yisrael

    both sides hang their shitot on some clearly contorted quotations

    and both sides seriously infringe on their credibility in the process of doing so.
    .
    .

    .
    .

    November 24, 2025 2:05 pm at 2:05 pm #2476095
    yankel berel
    Participant

    @ujm

    you probably are lumped together with katan and somejew because you seem to possess the same dictionary as them ….
    .
    .

    November 24, 2025 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm #2476436
    ujm
    Participant

    Yankel: My only dictionary is Oxford.

    November 24, 2025 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm #2476465
    somejewiknow@gmail.com
    Participant

    @yankel-berel

    I have not seen @HaKatan nor have I said anything in CR that is not fully and explicitly supported unanimously by gedolei yisroel in their own published mainstream writings.

    I’ve noticed a common pattern here in CR, one side (the Torah side) is regularly quoting mainstream seforim with specific references. The other side at best quotes artscroll third hand fluff stories while dismissing any serious torah point.

    There are numerous many books from all Torah camps expressing the disgrace of the false religion called “Zionism”, from Agudas Yisroel to Sefardi Gedolim, to Litvish, Yekish, Chassidish, Hungarian, etc. They all express the same refrain.

    However there are ZERO books in the Torah world that defend that false religion, rather only non-Jewish sources are ever mentioned like Kook and the “University” part of YU-JB.

    Nonetheless, the blind around here continue to pretend that the Gedolim of yesterday aren’t talking about today and the Gedolim of today are misled. The zionist fools in CR believe that every Gadol is really a zionist, but they never published, and everything they published against zionism is somehow not accurate or misunderstood.

    For anyone that want to learn Torah m’sinai, there is no ambiguity. We Jews do not follow any false moshiach, not Yashke, not Sha”tz, not Kook, not Bibi ymach shemum v’zichrum.

    November 26, 2025 5:07 am at 5:07 am #2477124
    yankel berel
    Participant

    hello r somejew

    am happy to hear from you directly

    let’s continue our conversation

    you were going to explain why zionism necessarily contradicts any of the ikarei emuna

    which one and how

    you asked me to provide what galut means based on the torah and hazal

    so — here we go : galut includes : ein mukdam ume’uchar …

    shibud malhuyot in the form of onerous taxes specifically on the jews

    shibud malhuyot as they interfere with kiyum hamitsvot

    lack of malhut beit david

    dispersion of the yehudim all around the world

    being far from EY

    lacking the avoda

    lacking the tahara engendered by hakravat hakorbanot

    lacking the BHMK

    lacking hashra’at hashechina

    the tsa’ar hashchina

    physical tsarot as a result of shibud malhuyot

    the immense power of the se’or sheba’issa or the yetser hara

    the fact that most of the world’s inhabitants are not aware of the RBSHO and his torah

    lacking the required menucha needed to delve into torah properly

    lacking batei din smuchim

    —

    there might be more descriptions of what we are lacking in galut

    but that is as far as I got for now ….
    .
    .

    looking forward to hearing from you soon ….
    .
    .

    November 28, 2025 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #2478483
    yankel berel
    Participant

    somejew ???

    November 30, 2025 11:12 am at 11:12 am #2478743
    HaKatan
    Participant

    yankel berel:
    You seem confused about the Torah’s perspective on Zionism. All, not just the overwhelming majority, gedolei Yisrael hold that Zionism is treif.
    It is plainly obvious, and doesn’t take a gadol to hold that, but that is nonetheless the reality.

    December 1, 2025 1:32 pm at 1:32 pm #2479311
    yankel berel
    Participant

    @katan

    Square root reminds me of somejew and katan

    just from the other side of the fence

    both sides erroneously think they know better than the overwhelming majority of gdolei yisrael

    both sides hang their shitot on some clearly contorted quotations

    and both sides seriously infringe on their credibility in the process of doing so.

    December 1, 2025 4:24 pm at 4:24 pm #2479737
    somejewiknow@gmail.com
    Participant

    @yankel-berel

    i’ve never gone against any gedolim nor claimed that I understand more. I challenge you to find anything of Torah substance that I have said in CR that I can’t back up with statements from Gedolim.

    And I don’t meant this that I will nitick some distortion. I mean to say that my stance (as well as Hakatan it would seem) is fully aligned with mainstream Torah taught by Gedolim.

    For example, take the evil masis imadiach Kook yimach shemo. There are a number of gedolim who have taught that he is a rushe gumir and yimach shemo. But, there are zero charedi gedolim who have taught that he is not a rushe.

    You can rightfully claim that MOST gedolim don’t talk about him, and it is true that I am following those gedolim who taught that we must be vocal and uproot that heresy from klal yisroel. But, don’t accuse me baselessly of “knowing better than the overwhelming majority of gdolei yisrael(sic)”.

    December 2, 2025 10:52 am at 10:52 am #2479869
    Shimon Katz
    Participant

    somejewiknow said “For example, take the evil masis imadiach Kook yimach shemo. There are a number of gedolim who have taught that he is a rushe gumir and yimach shemo. But, there are zero charedi gedolim who have taught that he is not a rushe.”

    Rav Yosef Chaim Zonnenfeld ????, who was his ?? ?????? on many fronts, treated him with respect and friendship, and worked with him on some important projects like the famous joint trip to the “Moshavot” when they travelled and taught together for almost a month. So I don’t think he held Rav Kook ??? was a “rasha” ???. I think the mainstream Chareidi position is that he was an Ehrliche Yid and Talmid Chacham, just mistaken on certain crucial points. Obviously Satmar and others hold more strongly against him, but I never saw anyone, even Satmar, write on him ???? ???? Chas Veshalom. Do you consider Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach ??? and Rav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv ??? to be Chareidim? They did not hold Rav Kook ??? to be a “rasha”.

    December 2, 2025 10:53 am at 10:53 am #2479892
    yankel berel
    Participant

    somejew :
    … But, there are zero charedi gedolim who have taught that he is not a rushe. [re rav kuk].

    —

    have a look in osef michtavim imrei emet

    [who satmar rav titles as harav hagaon hatsaddik]

    about rav kuk

    and tell me again – honestly …

    was rav kuk a rasha in emrei emets eyes ??

    .
    .

    December 2, 2025 10:53 am at 10:53 am #2479920
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    Dear Yankel Berel,

    I hope you feel well.

    FIRST:

    I *** DO NOT *** believe that I “know better than
    the overwhelming majority of Gdolei Yisrael”,
    as you stated in your previous message.

    If I ever said anything that gave you that impression,
    then I apologize.

    SECOND:

    No offense intended, sir, but with all due respect,
    could you please explain how these quotes
    are “clearly contorted quotations”,
    as you stated in your previous message:

    __________________________________________
    Rabbi Moshe Sherer joined Agudath Israel as its Executive Vice President
    in year 1941 CE and became its President in year 1963 CE.

    from the ArtScroll History Series biography
    of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 13, page 321:

    “He [Rabbi Moshe Sherer] assured [Prime Minister Yitzhak] Rabin…
    that he could always count on Agudath Israel of America
    to be strongly supportive of Israel’s security needs.”
    __________________________________________
    from from the ArtScroll History Series biography
    of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 22, page 552:

    “… secular Israeli officials viewed Rabbi Sherer [as]
    one of the major American Jewish leaders,
    and highly valued his eagerness to assist Israel …”
    __________________________________________
    Hearing his criticisms of Zionism, someone once
    told him [Rabbi Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz],
    “I too hate the Zionists. They should be cursed.”

    “Chas v’chalilah (Heaven forbid)!”
    Reb Shraga Feivel [Mendlowitz] interjected.

    “To the contrary: They should be blessed,
    along with all those who are building up our Holy Land.

    I only pray that they observe mitzvos.
    But chalilah to curse or hate them.

    They are tinokos shenish’bu
    (people who never received a Jewish
    education and so were led astray).”

    SOURCE: Reb Shraga Feivel: the life
    and times of Rabbi Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz,
    the architect of Torah in America
    (chapter 16, page 228) by Yonoson Rosenblum
    for Artscroll / Mesorah, year 2001 CE,
    based on Aharon Sorasky’s Shelucha DeRachmana,
    ISBNs: 157819797X, 9781578197972, 1578197961, 9781578197965
    __________________________________________
    “In [year]1948 [CE], after the Arabs attacked the
    newly declared Jewish state and soldiers were
    falling on the battlefield, several Roshei Yeshivah
    taunted Reb Shraga Feivel [Mendlowitz] for having
    recited the blessing [HaTov VeHaMeitiv].

    Reb Shraga Feivel turned to Rabbi Aharon Kotler,
    who agreed with him that the U. N. [United Nations]
    resolution [to establish a Jewish State in Eretz Yisrael
    in year 1948 CE] was indeed worthy of the blessing.”

    SOURCE: Reb Shraga Feivel: the life
    and times of Rabbi Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz,
    the architect of Torah in America
    (chapter 26, page 331, footnote 3,
    heard from Rabbi Nesanel Quinn) by Yonoson Rosenblum
    for Artscroll / Mesorah, year 2001 CE,
    based on Aharon Sorasky’s Shelucha DeRachmana,
    ISBNs: 157819797X, 9781578197972, 1578197961, 9781578197965
    __________________________________________
    Rabbi Yaakov Kamenetsky said this:

    “In this land [Eretz Yisrael] … a carpenter is not merely a laborer,
    but one fulfilling the mitzvah of building Eretz Yisrael.”

    SOURCE: Reb Yaakov: The Life and Times of HaGaon
    Rabbi Yaakov Kamenetsky     by Yonason Rosenblum,
    based on the research of Rabbi Noson Kamenetsky (chapter 11, page 210),
    Mesorah Publications, publication dates: February 1993 & January 2004,
    ISBN: 0-89906-413-2 (hardcover)
    ISBN: 0-89906-415-9 (paperback)

    __________________________________________
    Rabbi Lazer Brody [a Chareidi Rosh HaYeshivah] taught:

    “…HaShem should protect the soldiers and the police…
    we have to express our thanks to every Israeli soldier and police-man…”

    SOURCE: lecture titled: “The Protective Force”
    by Rabbi Lazer Brody, 2015/10/25, this lecture was found on Youtube

    __________________________________________

    I thank you for reading this message.

    Please answer this question, but only
    when it is very convenient for you to do so.

    I am confident that all of us will benefit from
    hearing your great knowledge and wisdom.

    Sincerely,
    SQUARE_ROOT

    December 2, 2025 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #2480217
    ujm
    Participant

    Shimon / Yankel:

    ???”? ???? ???? ???? ???

    ?”?
    ??? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ?’ ??? ?????”? ????????? ???”? ?”? ????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ???”? ???”? ???? ???? ?????????? ???”? ?????”?, ?????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ????, ???? ????? ?? ??? ?’ ??? ??????? ????? ??? ?’ ????? ??? ???????? ??? ????? ?’ ?????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ??????, ??? ???? ?? ????? ???? ?????, ????? ????? ??????? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ?????? ??????? ?”? ?? ?????”? ?????? ??? ??? ???’ ????, ??? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????, ????? ??? ????? ???? ???, ??? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ????”? ???? ?????? ?”?, ??? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ??????, ??? ?? ??? ????? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???????? ???”? ??? ?????? ????, ??????? ??? ??? ?? ????? ?? ??? ???? ???”? ??????? ?????? ???, ???? ????? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?????, ??????? ??? ????? ????? ?? ?????, ?????? ?????? ??????, ?????? ???????, ???? ????? ??????, ????? ??? ?????? ?????, ?? ?’ ??? ???? ??? ???, ??? ? ? ???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?????, ???? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ?? ????, ??? ???? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ?????, ???? ?????? ???????? ?? ?? ????? ??’ ??????? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ???????? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ?????”? ?????? ????”? (??? ????? ?????????-??”? ????? ?????), ??? ???? ??’ ????? ??????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ????????, ????? ?? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ??????, ???? ????, ????? ?? ?? ????? ??’ ?????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ?????, ???”? ???? ?????, ?????? ????? ????? ??? ??”? ???? ??? ??????.

    ???? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ??????? ?????, ?? ?? ?? ????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?’ ?????? ?? ????? ???? ??????, ???? ????? ????? ????, ????”? ???? ??”? ???? ?’ ??”? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??? ???????, ????? ?? ?? ????? ???? ?? ??? ?”? ??? ???? ????? ?’ ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ?????? ????”? ????”?, ??”? ???”? ??? ???? ??”? ?”? ???? ?”? ??? ????? ???????? (???? ??? ??? ?’ ???? ?’) ??? ????? ?? ??? ??? ??????? ???? ??????, ??? ???? ?? ????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ???????? ???? ??????? ????”?, ??????? ??????????, ??? ??? ???”? ???”? ???? ??”?, ????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????? ????, ???”? ????? ???? ???? ???? ????”?.

    ???? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ?”?, ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ???”? ????, ????? ?? ??”? ??? ?’ ????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??????? ????, ?”? ?????? ?”? ??? ????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ?? ????, ???? ??????? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ????”?, ?????? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ?’ ???? ????????? ?????? ????? ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ??, ????? ????”? ?”? ??”? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ?’, ??????? ????? ???? ?”? ?????? ???? ?? ??????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?? ?????????? ??? ??????? ????”?.

    ??? ?”? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?? ?’ ???? ?????? ???”? ???? ??? ????? ?? ??????????, ?? ????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ???????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ??? ?????, ??? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ????? ???? ?????, ?????? ??? ????? ?? ????????, ???? ??? ????? ????? ?? ?? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????, ????? ????? ???? ?????, ??????? ?????’ ???? ????? ????, ??? ????? ?”?.

    ??? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ?????? ??????????? ????? ???? ??????? ?? ???? ?????, ??? ??? ???? ??? ????, ???? ????? ???? ?????, ??? ???? ?”? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ?????? ????”? ????? ?? ?’ ???? ???? ????? ?? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ??????, ???? ????? ??????? ???? ?? ?????? ????’ ?????? ??????.

    ?????? ????? ?? ?”?, ????? ?????? ????? ?”? ?????, ??? ?”? ???? ?? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???????, ??? ????? ???? ??????, ???? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??? ??????, ????? ???? ?? ?????? ????”? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ??? ???, ???? ????? ???? ????? ?????, ?????? ???? ??? ??’ ??? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ??’ ??’ ???? ????? ???? ?????? ?? [???? ??”? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??? ?”? ?????. ????”? ????? ??”? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ??? ?”? ????? ?”?, ????? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ??????? ?? ??”? ?”? ???? ?????? ??”? ??????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???. ??? ?? ???? ????? ???”? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?”? ?? ?? ???? ??? ???? ?? ?? ???? ??”? ???? ???? ???? ???????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ?”? ?????, ?? ????? ?? ???”? ???? ?? ??? ??’ ?? ????? ??????, ???????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ??”? ?????? ???? ??????? ?????? ?????? ????.

    ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ??’ ??? ???? ??????, ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ???”? ??”? ???? ??”? ???? ?”? ???? ?? ??????? ???? ???? ?????, ????? ???? ????’ ????”? ???? ?’ (??? ???? ??? ??) ??”? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ??????? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ???, ??? ?? ??? ???”? ?”? ????’ ??? ?’ (??? ?”?), ?????”? ???? ?”? ??”? ?? ??”? ?”? ???? ?????”? ????? ????? ???? ?”? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????? ??’ ????? ???? ??? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ??’, ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ??”? ????? ???? ????? ??’ ???? ??? ??’ ???? ?????? ???? ???’ ????, ????”? ???”? ????? ???? ????? ???, ????? ????? ?????? ??’ ???? ?? ??????, ?????? ?????? ????? ?? ????”? ????”? ???’ ??”? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ?? ??? ???????, ???? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ?? ????? ???, ???? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ?? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ??’ ??”? ??? ???, ????? ??”? ??’ ????? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ???? ????, ??”? ??????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ????].

    ???”? ???? ?????? ????? ???”? ??? ????? ????? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ?”? ?????? ????, ?”? ??”? ?? ????? ???? ???’ ????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ????, ??”? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???????, ???”? ??? ???’ ?? ????? ??????.

    ??”? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ????? ????? ??????? ???????, ?? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ???????? ??? ??? ?????, ??”? ???? ????????? ???????, ??? ???? ???????, ??”? ????”? ????? ?? ????, ????? ????, ??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?????, ??? ???? ???? ???, ????? ????? ????? ???”? ??????? ?????? ??? ???? ?????, ?? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ???????, ???? ?????? ???? ??? ????, ???? ???? ???? ?????, ????????? ???? ???? ???? ????, ???????? ?????? “???” ????? ????? “??????” ????? ?????? ??????, ????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ???, ??? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ?”? ????? ??”? ???? ?????, ?”?, ????? ???”? (????? ?? ?”? ?”?) ??? ??????? ??? ???? ?????, ?????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ?????????? ???? ?????? ?”? (??????? ?? ?’ ?”?) ?????, ??? ????? ??? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ?”? ????? ??? ?? ??”? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ??? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ??????? ???? ?????? ???????, ??”? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??”? ???? ??? ???? ????????, ???? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ??????, ???? ??’ ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????, ???? ????? ???? ???? ?????, ??? ????? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ???????, ?????? ??? ??? ????’, ?? ???’ ???? ??????, ????? ?? ????? ???? ??? ?????, ????? ????? ??? ??????, ???? ??? ????’, ??? ?????? ??????, ???”? ???? ?????, ????? ?????, ??? ?????? ??? ?????, ?????? ??”? ??????? ??? ???? ?????, ????? ???? ?????, ???”? ??????? ?????? ?????.

    ???? ??”? ?????? ???????, ???? ?????, ??? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ?’ ?????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ?????, ????”? ??? ??? ?????, ??? ???? ??????, ??? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ?????, ?? ????? ???? ?’ ??????, ??????? ??? ??????, ????? ????? ???????, ????? ????? ???? ??????, ???????? ?????? ???????, ????? ???? ???????? ????? ?? ????? ???? ???.

    ?”? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??????? ?? ????? ?????, ??? ?’ ??’ ???? ??? ??? ???? ?”? ????”? ???”? ??”?, ??”? ????? ??”?

    ??’ ???? ?????????

    ???? ???
    ??”?, ?”? ???? ??? ?’ ??????? ????”? ??”?, ?? ?? ??????

    ???? ????? ?”? ????? ???????? ???”? ????”? ????? ??”?, ?????? ???? ??? ????? ?”? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ??????? ???????? ?????? ???????? ?”?, ??? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ??????? ?”? ???”?, ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ???”? ?????”? ?????? ?”? ( ??? ????? ?????????-????? ?????) ?????”? ??? ???”? ?????”? ?????? ????”? (??? ???? ????-????? ?????) ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ???????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ???, ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ?????, ?? ???? ????? ????? ?? ??? ??????? (?’ ???’ ?????) ???? ??’ ????? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ?”?, ???? ???? ???????? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ?’ ??? ?????, ??? ?? ??? ?? ?????? ????”? ??????? ?????? ????? ????, ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ???????? ?????? ??”? ??????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ????”?, ???? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ???? ??? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ??’ ???? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ??’ ??????? ??????, ??? ????? ??? ?? ??? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ???.

    ??????…(????? ????? ????? ??”?)

    ??”? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?”? ???, ??? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ?”? ?? ?????? ?? ?? ??????? ??????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ??? ?????, ??”? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ????????? ?”?, ?????? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ??? ??? ???.

    ????”? ?? ???? ??? ??????? ????? ??????? ?????’, ??? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ??? ??? ?????”? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ?”? ????????, ????? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ?”? ???????, ?? ???”? ????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ??”? ??????, ?????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ??”? ???”? (??????? ?? ?”? ?”?), ??? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?”?, ???’ ?? ????? ????? ????????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ?”?, ???”? ???’ ????? ?????? ??? ????? ?????, ?????? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ???? ???, ????? ?? ????? ???????, ????? ?????? ?? ?? ????? ?????.

    ?”? ???”? ????? ????? ????, ?????? ???? ?’ ?????? ?????, ????? ?????, ????? ????? ????, ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????????

    ??’ ???? ?????????

    December 2, 2025 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #2480673
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    SR knowledge of how gedolim felt about Israel is equal to his understanding of how to successfully navigate the shidduch system, just about zero on both

    December 3, 2025 7:59 pm at 7:59 pm #2481488
    yankel berel
    Participant

    @ujm

    SR ‘s opinion about rav kuk is well known and not a chiddush at all

    I only took issue with the extreme and clearly untrue statement that all gdolim considered rav kuk a rasha

    this is a clear lie

    your quote of SR’s letters are completely irrelevant to this
    .
    .

    December 4, 2025 10:32 am at 10:32 am #2481558
    ujm
    Participant

    SR ‘s opinion about rav kuk is well known and not a chiddush at all

    Actually, that isn’t true. Very few people are actually aware of the strong words (to put it diplomatically) that the SR said about RK, that I copied above.

    December 4, 2025 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #2481969
    yankel berel
    Participant

    @ujm

    do you agree that not all gedolim held that rav kuk was a rasha ?
    .

    December 5, 2025 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #2482008
    ujm
    Participant

    Yankel: From what I know (not being the expert) I think that;s accurate. Others simply didn’t consider him to be a godol.

    December 7, 2025 10:21 am at 10:21 am #2482299
    yankel berel
    Participant

    @ujm

    you seem to contradict yourself in your latest post

    and you also seem not to answer my question

    will repeat the question then :

    do you agree that not all gedolim held that rav kuk was a rasha ?
    .

    December 7, 2025 10:21 am at 10:21 am #2482472
    HaKatan
    Participant

    @yankel berel
    Even those who did not consider him a rasha, kofer or the like, still very much did consider his works to be totally against the Torah.
    The Chazon Ish banned the sale of his books.
    The Gerrer Rebbe stated that Rabbi Kook was “omer al tamei tahor”, and that was after Rabbi Kook gave him a letter (later retracted) that claimed he was retracting his problematic views.
    And on…

    December 7, 2025 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #2482649
    ujm
    Participant

    Yankel: There’s no contradiction.

    December 8, 2025 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm #2482968
    yankel berel
    Participant

    Thanks to katan and to ujm who by their omissions and sidestepping confirmed :

    not all gdolim considered rav kuk to be a rasha …..
    .
    .

    December 9, 2025 10:02 am at 10:02 am #2483690
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    Rabbi Isser Zalman Meltzer [ZTL ZYA] also once said to
    Rabbi Chaim Ozer Grodzinsky [ZTL ZYA] from Vilna:

    “The two of us are considered Torah giants until
    we reach the door of Rabbi [Avraham Yitzchak] Kook’s office    .”

    (cited by Rabbi Eliezer Melamed in Israel National News, 2013 August 8).

    December 9, 2025 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #2484034
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @ Square root:
    Your comments are almost-alwaysfilled with laitzanus and Onaas Devarim,
    both of which are prohibited by the Torah
    that you allegedly claim to believe in.

    Unfortunately, laitzanus and Onaas Devarim have become
    so common, and so normalized, and so accepted,
    that many people no longer consider them to be forbidden.

    December 9, 2025 10:19 pm at 10:19 pm #2484196
    yankel berel
    Participant

    the liar who calls himself somejew says :

    ‘there are zero charedi gedolim who have taught that [rav kuk] is not a rushe’ ….

    imrai emet in osef michtavim titles him as harav hagaon ish haeshkolot and as someone with good midot albeit mistaken in certain issues ….

    again – somejew claims that :

    ‘there are zero charedi gedolim who have taught that [rav kuk] is not a rushe’ ….

    —-

    now can we believe somejew on this topic anymore ?

    or did he lose his chezkat kasrut ?

    it seems that whenever somejew reads , hears or smells anything that starts with the letter z , he simply takes leave of his senses ….

    .

    December 9, 2025 10:19 pm at 10:19 pm #2484217
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    After the Balfour Declaration, in HaTekufah HaGedolah, page 174 to 175,
    Rabbi Meir Simcha of Dvinsk (born in 1843 CE & died in 1926 CE)
    wrote that “the fear of The [Three] Oaths has departed.”

    He expressed his approval of Religious Zionism
    in Sare HaMeah, Volume 6, pages.233 to 234.

    December 10, 2025 11:53 am at 11:53 am #2484304
    yankel berel
    Participant

    @square

    Rabbi eliezer melamed has the same trustworthiness when it comes to information about rav kuk …

    …. as somejew and katan.

    they all are passul le’edut legabei rav kuk.

    all are clear nog’im , one as a soneh , the other as a hasid.
    .
    .
    .

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