Trief Recipe

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  • #1471950

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    So, I have in front of me a recipe for pulled pork. Of course, I’m not going to make the recipe — but I am considering changing it to a kosher meat (probably chicken) and going with that instead.

    So, what are your thoughts. Of course, as long as there is nothing treif in there, it’s 100% OK halachically. But what about hashkafically? What are your thoughts? All good? Or once it’s associated with tarfus, it should never be made?

    The Wolf

    #1471978

    Joseph
    Participant

    יש דין ויש דיין

    #1471981

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    not sure if you are really wondering or just trying to bait Joseph (which seems to have worked) but I do it all the time, as do many others. Which of course means there must not be anything wrong with it. Right?

    😉

    #1471988

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I’m not sure that a meat recipe can work well with poultry. Other than that, I don’t think there is a problem.

    #1471986

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    I don’t see anything wrong. It says we should not say I hate chazir but I would desire it but I am forbidden to eat it. Also, it says that everything asur has something similar that mutor. Look at the Orech Chaim in Parshas Shemini that chazir meaning will return. will become mutor because it resembles Eisov but he will repent.

    #1471983

    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    Chazal say that one who fails to try something permissible will face din v’cheshbon.

    #1472282

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    יש דין ויש דיין

    Is there, indeed, a din regarding this?

    The Wolf

    #1472249

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Also look at the Klei Yokor in Parshas Shemini what he says about the camel.

    #1472284

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    What’s the difference between the Wolf’s question and a woman asking if she can wear a shell under a sleeveless dress (that besides lacking sleeves is otherwise tznius)?

    Thank you

    #1472294

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Wolf: You will find plenty of “Pulled Brisket” Recipes in the kosher cook books.

    #1472297

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    What’s the difference between the Wolf’s question and a woman asking if she can wear a shell under a sleeveless dress (that besides lacking sleeves is otherwise tznius)?

    You could make the argument that your example is all about the appearance. That does not apply to mine.

    The Wolf

    #1472308

    Joseph
    Participant

    “Chazal say that one who fails to try something permissible will face din v’cheshbon.”

    Will people who fail to go bungee jumping have to give din v’cheshbon for that failure?

    #1472325

    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    “Will people who fail to go bungee jumping have to give din v’cheshbon for that failure?”

    I’m sure you know the answer already as it is a well known ma’amer of Chazal I am quoting. It refers, I believe, to eating. Not jumping.

    #1472326

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    wolf: If copying a treif recipe and substituting kosher ingredients is problematic, half the kosher cookbooks sold in the past 5 years would have to be banned.

    #1472327

    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    Talmud Yerushalmi Kiddushin 48b

    #1472364

    Joseph
    Participant

    “it is a well known ma’amer of Chazal I am quoting. It refers, I believe, to eating. Not jumping.”

    You believe the Chazal means that if someone failed to eat General Tso’s Chicken or Chinese food in his life, he’ll be punished in Shamayim?

    #1472358

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    A nozir is considered a choteh because he rescricts himself from foods permitted.

    #1472375

    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    “You believe the Chazal means that if someone failed to eat General Tso’s Chicken or Chinese food in his life, he’ll be punished in Shamayim?”

    Yes. He / she must try it at least one time in their life (according to whatever shechita they hold).

    #1472398

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    We crossed this bridge generations ago when some creative baal abusta in the alte heim adopted a old ungareshe recipe for boiled sugar with pork and beans and called it Chulent.

    #1472402

    funnybone
    Participant

    Hmmm…if you make a cheeseburger without the cheese, is that ok?
    If you drink milk with a pareve cholent?
    If you eat eggs without bacon?
    Eat lettuce but check for bugs?

    #1472401

    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    Chulent obviously predates whatever GHT is referencing by hundreds and thousands of years.

    #1472403

    funnybone
    Participant

    Baltimore maven, does that include sushi?

    #1472404

    funnybone
    Participant

    Iac: no way, plagiarism in jewish cookbooks!

    #1472430

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Is there, indeed, a din regarding this?

    Joseph, I’m still waiting for an answer on this? Is there one? And, if so, what is it?

    The Wolf

    #1472428

    funnybone
    Participant

    Baltimore, by hundreds or thousands.

    #1472429

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Ah, my apologies, funnybone. I didn’t catch your point until it was too late.

    The Wolf

    (unless the mods can delete both this post and the previous one…)

    #1472427

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    if you make a cheeseburger without the cheese, is that ok?

    Yes. It’s called a hamburger.

    The Wolf

    #1472421

    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    Sushi: yes, it is included in “anything.”
    The Gemora says that noone eats raw fish but they do eat raw meat but as nowadays most people eat sushi, it is included. I personally eat deep fried sushi including banana sushi.

    #1472431

    out of town yid
    Participant

    The best substitute for chazir I have been told is veal, not beef and certainly not chicken, although you can always try it. NEVER be afraid to take any recipe featuring non kosher ingredients and change them as needed to permissible kosher ones. The ingredients in ANY recipe are NEVER set in stone. WE as Yidden have always done this. If we did not ever do this we would all probably starve, as this has been done all of the time. If we could not do so, ALL kosher cookbooks would have to be banned. Most treif dishes I have encountered can be made KOSHER….either by substitution, or sometimes by just omitting a no good item. It is quite natural to do so, without any worry involved at all. NEVER be afraid to experiment, just keep it kosher, whether by ingredient or by method (such as in very few cookbooks at all, even some kosher ones, does it tell one to BROIL liver before doing anything else to it! ) .
    We are NOT copying the goyim……they probably stole it originally from us, anyway….and adopted it with their wishes! After all, their leaders controlled them for hundreds of years and always told them what to do……and also educated them as they wanted, teaching them only what they wanted them to learn, while often changing the truth. WE WERE and continue to be THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK…..we are the really educated ones. They are getting rid of books now all of the time, replacing all with the internet. WE as FRUM YIDDEN cannot do so. How would I read anything on the internet on Shabbos or YUNTIFF? WE need the book or hard copy form!
    Also, I have seen much too much of a new disgusting practice…..In a shul, how many people are now….NOT using a siddur…..but davening from a device! Do not be lazy…..go get and use a siddur! WE do not wish to copy the goyim, but here is the best way to stop doing so…..use a SIDDUR! OK, I am at a place where there are no siddurim….then OK, use the device then……BUT NOT when siddurim ARE available! ONLY use the device as a supplement! GO FOR the REAL THING! This time, no substitutes usually allowed! HERE…..they truly affect the taste….not to mention the product!

    #1472445

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    they probably stole it originally from us, anyway

    Are you really asserting that all recipes made by non-Jews were originated by Jews?

    OK, I am at a place where there are no siddurim….then OK, use the device then……BUT NOT when siddurim ARE available!

    One morning in shul, we had a neighborhood blackout. There were plenty of siddurim, but I used by phone, as it was (for me) too dark to read the siddur. I guess my davening that day was completely unacceptable. 🙁

    The Wolf

    #1472471

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Large print siddurim are expensive and heavy.

    #1472473

    funnybone
    Participant

    Can one use a trief recipe for kosher, can one use smartphone for davening, can one use a car during the week that he cannot use on Shabbos.

    #1472476

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    Im not saying it should be this way because it certainly should not but i can see a positive angle to using a smartphone to daven from. Unfortunately we have a way bigger problem in shul, and that is talking, talking and more talking. I noticed that those davening from a phone talk a lot less because for the mist part they are fiddling with their smartphones. So maybe davening from a smart phone has it’s advantages. Just my 2 ¢

    #1472523

    Joseph
    Participant

    Wolf: I was pulling your leg.

    #1472545

    jakob
    Participant

    if you make a cheesburger with parve cheese is that ok & kosher or is that going in the chukas hagoyim & might also bring you to C”V by accident make & eat treif at other times

    #1472638

    funnybone
    Participant

    Joseph: the question was about pulled pork, not pulled leg

    #1472795

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Out of town yid. Don’t use a print siddur! Go back and use the scrolls they replaced

    #1472810

    funnybone
    Participant

    Ooty: how do you define disgusting?

    #1473420

    Nechomah
    Participant

    LB – Can you explain your question? “What’s the difference between the Wolf’s question and a woman asking if she can wear a shell under a sleeveless dress (that besides lacking sleeves is otherwise tznius)?”

    No one suggests to wear the sleeveless shell alone, so I don’t get what you’re asking?

    Wolf, in answer to your question, I do not think there is a “din” regarding this. Some extremely cautious people who are suspicious of everything they do in life might not want to use recipes with treif ingredients in them and convert them to kosher, but the average Yid would probably not have an issue with this. I just made a wonderful beef/broccoli/vegetable dish this past erev Shabbos that originally called for bison steak in the recipe.

    I mean, really, if a recipe is by a goy and they call for beef, are you obligated to use treif meat in that recipe? I doubt it, so I just extrapolate and use whatever kosher meat or chicken I feel is appropriate in a recipe. I do, however, have a hard time looking at various seafood recipes and pictures showing that food, but I think that is just a personal thing.

    Bon Appetite!!!

    #1475298

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I just made a wonderful beef/broccoli/vegetable dish this past erev Shabbos that originally called for bison steak in the recipe.

    Bison is kosher.

    The Wolf

    #1475311

    Differences between these cases – you’re still wearing that
    same article of clothing, but you’re not still eating that food.
    (There are also arguments to be made about original intentions.)

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    (Don’t take any of this too seriously.)

    #1475310

    Aren’t all recipes by non-Jews for meat/poultry associated with tarfus?

    …wear a shell under a sleeveless dress (that
    besides lacking sleeves is otherwise tznius)?

    I’ve seen objections stated to that sort of thing.

    #1475551

    funnybone
    Participant

    Random: you can see objections to everything! Hmmmm. ..anyone object to scrambled eggs? Yes! Why? Dont know yet, maybe Haman ate them? It says in the megillah, lasois kirtzoin ish vuish, so they MUST have had scrambled eggs!

    #1475552

    funnybone
    Participant

    Bigson is kosher?

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