Trump ruined the GOP
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- This topic has 52 replies, 20 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 5 months ago by Reb Eliezer.
December 2, 2020 11:34 am at 11:34 am #1925126
He turned most Republican politicians into lying sycophants and most Republican voters into conspiracy theorists. We sane and honest Republicans are homeless.December 2, 2020 12:17 pm at 12:17 pm #1925294crazykanoiyParticipant
True, sad, and very unfortunate.December 2, 2020 1:57 pm at 1:57 pm #1925325akupermaParticipant
That is why the Republican won almost 2/3 of the Senate seats being contested in 2020, and almost tied the House, and won most of the contested state races. That is also why in referenda, California, the super-blue state, defeated proposals to ban the “gig” economy, and to mandate racial preference for politically favored groups (in particular to have a numerus clausus restricting Asians). And suddenly, even Biden is having second thoughts about cancelling Trump’s “make America great again” tariffs.
Whether he is really a boor, or was “acting in character” from his media image as portrayed in “The Apprentice”, many people disliked Trump, but otherwise indicated approval for his policies.
It is true that some aspects of Reagan area Republican doctrine may be out of permanently favor, such as the muscular foreign policy (beloved by neo-cons) or free trade, but it turns out that on both of those issues, it seems more a matter of public opinion having moved, as the Democrats don’t seem anxious to support them either.
There were many irregularities in the election, which is to be expect do the first time use of mail-in ballots with no advance procedures, but while Trump is annoyed the fact that the Republicans won overall suggests Trump wasn’t cheated, and he lost not due to fraud, but because many people supported the Republicans, but rejected Trump.
The most likely change is that in 2024 the Republicans will run a candidate with Trumpian (populist, rather than conservative) views, but with the pretense of derekh eretz that normally characterizes professional politicians. If you are a neo-con, you are homeless. If you are a free trader (and support liberal immigration of workers), consider supporting the Libertarians.December 2, 2020 2:18 pm at 2:18 pm #1925334
Trump remade the GOP into a better and stronger party that doesn’t content itself in only doing what Democrats say they may do and no more.December 2, 2020 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #1925342torahvaluesoverpartyParticipant
I absolutely love what trump has done to the gop. The next gop nominee will undoubtedly be the one who was able to convince us gop voters, that he/she will govern the way trump did. That he/she will GET THINGS DONE the way trump did. There’s a reason trump got the most non-white support of any Republican in 60 yrs. Yes, the Republican party is now Trumps party, he’s redefined the gop, and I can’t be any more happy about that.December 2, 2020 3:08 pm at 3:08 pm #1925351
Torahvalues: It will be a looooong wait for another Trumpkopf.
In fairness,Trump didn’t “ruin” the GOP. He was very clear before he was elected in 2016 as to who he was and what he would do. The ruination of the GOP was in the hands of those Republicans who as a prior poster noted, twisted themselves into lying sycophantsand conspiracy theorists to avoid being “tweeted at”.December 2, 2020 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #1925365
The GOP is stronger in 2020 than it was in 2016.December 2, 2020 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #1925399smerelParticipant
Whatever many faults Trump has, ruining the GOP is not among them.
The mainstream media can tell you Trump turned most Republican politicians into lying sycophants (in real life I never met anyone who uses the word sycophant)all they want but in real life there is little difference in the typical Republicans politicians behavior in 2015 and 2020.
As far as turning Republican voters into conspiracy theorists it was the Democrats who spent years on Russian collusion and other such conspiracy theories and indictments. (I do agree that many people have gone nuts with Trump Derangement Syndrome but for the most part they aren’t Republicans and it was the media, not Trump, who caused that syndrome)
As far as the general state of the GOP after Trump goes. Unlike twelve years ago when Obama first won noone is writing the obituary for the GOP after Biden won. No Republican presidential candidate in the past sixty years has gotten such a high percentage of minority voters. If anything Trump has shown that the predictions of the GOP demise due to the decreasing percentage of white voters is not trueDecember 2, 2020 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #1925412
Unlike Godalhaorah, CrazyKoniy and RatingS I am a Republican who was active before Trump and now, the GOP has fresh energy, the 117 congress had GOP men and women of of shapes and colors, the GOP controls most state houses and will control redistricting, The GOP was alive before Trump during Trump and after TrumpDecember 3, 2020 7:48 am at 7:48 am #1925548
The GOP holds disproportionate power due to gerrymandering, Democrats concentrating in urban areas, the makeup of the Senate, etc.. You can’t argue that they represent a majority of voters. I’m concerned about the upcoming redistricting and what will mean for the health of our democracy.December 3, 2020 10:55 am at 10:55 am #1925596
@Benny, some of the worse gerrymandering is done in the deep blue state, the health of the democracy survived when the Democrats controlled the map in the the 70s, 80s and 2000, I guess it depends on whos ox is being gored.
The problem for the dems is there has been a population shift from the high tax states such as New York, California and Illinois to business friendly states such as Texas and Florida , The Democrats hold a 10 vote margin in the house with shift in the new seats its more then likely the the GOP will control the house in 2022.December 3, 2020 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #1925673
Benny, hopefully and likely with the upcoming redistricting the Democrats will be reduced to a smaller minority of public office holders on that local, state and federal levels.December 3, 2020 8:00 pm at 8:00 pm #1925734ForshayerParticipant
Said nobody, EVER. He’s the best thing to happen to this country since they put wheels on suitcases!December 3, 2020 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #1925765
Of course you know you can find examples of gerrymandering in the past several decades or the period before the VRA was passed but REDMAP in 2010 changed things for the worse. Also, I don’t know another period when the overall political system has been so stacked in one direction. The Republican Senate majority will represent 40 million fever people, even if Democrats win both Georgia races. Finally, the electoral college has never been so lopsided.
How healthy is it when there are no competitive districts in an entire state for a whole decade? Besides Maryland and maybe Illinois, what deep blue gerrymander can compare with Texas, Ohio, or any of the other Republican ones?
Democrats won the overall house margin by about 3% but still lost a bunch of seats. Republicans lost the popular vote for state legislatures but still maintained a majority. If the current maps continue in purple states like Wisconsin, North Carolina, and now Georgia, Democrats have practically no chance of taking the legislature in the near future.
Regarding the upcoming redistricting, Republicans will have total control of the process for 43 percent of districts, while Democrats will just control just 17%, partially because the have taken the high road and opted for independent redistricting. Also, it’s not just “high tax” states projected to lose representation. Alabama, West Virginia, Minnesota, Ohio, Michigan all might lose a district. We’ll see what happens. 2022 is still a long way off.December 3, 2020 11:46 pm at 11:46 pm #1925799
Benny, you woke up too late. From the 1950s until 2010 the districts were gerrymandered in strong favor of the Democrats. The House, electoral college and state legislative districts were skewered in the Democrats favor for 60 years so that even though Republicans often got an overall majority of the vote the Democrats still got a majority of the representatives.
Similarly with the Senate, the Democrats overall got less votes but more senators since they owned the South due to their civil war history of supporting the Confederacy.
It was good for them then with no complaints about it being bad for democracy. Well, we can keep the current Republican advantage for sixty years too.
In 2070 lets reassess whether to even the playing field.December 4, 2020 6:41 am at 6:41 am #1925867
@Benny ” Besides Maryland and maybe Illinois, what deep blue gerrymander can compare with Texas, Ohio, or any of the other Republican ones?” Ok How about Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, California, Washington State, BTW Illinois wrote the book on gerrymandering going back to the Richard Daley. If you want to see fine example of NY gerrymandering look up the 98 Assembly District map, it is 60 miles long in meandering in suburban NY.
“Democrats won the overall house margin by about 3% but still lost a bunch of seats.”
That’s because the urban voters voted without brains, no matter who is on the GOP line they would not vote for them therefore they win districts 90-10.
“Also, it’s not just “high tax” states projected to lose representation. Alabama, West Virginia, Minnesota, Ohio, Michigan all might lose a district.”
Minnesota ranks #5 in tax burden, Ohio #12, WV and Michigan lost population thanks to Obama’s policies that dried up jobs. Of course NYS is proudly number one as the highest tax burden.December 6, 2020 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #1926233KGNParticipant
He made the Republican Party better. It use to cater more towards Neocon, Libertarian, and Protestant Christian but now appeals to people who do not fall into any of those 3 categories. As a person who volunteered in the Trump promotion office, I saw people from different cultural backgrounds who felt incentivized to vote because of Donald Trump.December 6, 2020 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #1926325hujuParticipant
It takes more than a single jerk to ruin a political party. It takes lots of jerks willing to coddle him, support his lies, mislead the party rank and file.December 6, 2020 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #1926388
Who ruined the Democrat Party – Johnson, Carter or Clinton?
They each built upon the ruins of their predecessors.December 7, 2020 9:42 am at 9:42 am #1926561hujuParticipant
To ujm: It’s nice to see that you left Barack Who’s sayin’ Obama off your list of who ruined the Democratic party.December 7, 2020 11:07 am at 11:07 am #1926610
Does anyone believe we will ever see a viable third party in our lifetimes? A few months ago I would have assumed a substantial number of traditional Republicans would have split from the Trumpkopfs and reclaimed their long-held policy agenda without all the “America First” isolationism, raciist tropes, vulgarity, and threats against those who disagreed. Given the total silence among the R’s to the Biden win, that doesn’t look like its going to happen anytime soon and they will quietly folllow the Trumpkpf over the cliff. (Perhaps more objectively, they and a good percentage of the 75 million Trump voters will go over the cliff).December 7, 2020 11:37 am at 11:37 am #1926629
Third parties in the US don’t have a very good track record, last serious 3rd party attempt was 1992 in Ross Perot with 18.9 % of the vote and not a single vote in electoral collage. The only serious 3rd party was Teddy Roosevelt in 1912 who came in second.
Conversely why don’t the moderate and blue dog democrats jump ship now that the party has been hijacked by the AOC and alike.December 7, 2020 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #1926751
To huju: I don’t want to be accused of racism. As you well know, being a card carrying party member, that any criticism of a black person constitutes racism in the world of today’s Democrat Party and their media cronies.
Ghadorah: Considering that the Republicans won across all down ballots, against all odds, under Trump and the president himself gained millions of voters over the last election, the Republicans realized that Trump must have down many right things these last four years.
Common: Teddy came in third.December 7, 2020 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #1926782
Woodrow Wilson Democratic 435 electoral votes popular 6,293,454
Theodore Roosevelt Progressive (Bull Moose) 88 electoral, popular 4,119,207
William Howard Taft Republican 8 electoral votes popular 3,483,922December 7, 2020 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #1926799
Saychal, AOC and her ilk haven’t hijacked the Democratic Party. Bernie and Liz lost the primary to Biden in a landslide. Unlike the GOP’s 2016 primaries, Democratic voters rejected the crazy candidate and voted for the boring moderate, both in 2016 and this year.December 7, 2020 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #1926800
UJM: It’s striking that Trump lost in an election where the GOP did well. It means many voters are like me – we generally prefer GOP to Dem but we want Trump out.December 7, 2020 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #1926813
Rating: 100 out 222 dems in the 117 congress are members of the progressive caucus need I say more?December 8, 2020 6:42 am at 6:42 am #1926953
Ujm, I’m a little late but you’re clearly wrong. Democrats won the majority of the overall votes for the House of Representatives from 1946 to 1994. The lines were drawn more to protect incumbents than to completely transform the playing field.
“Well, we can keep the current Republican advantage for sixty years too.
In 2070 lets reassess whether to even the playing field.”
It’s becoming increasingly apparent that if Democracy isn’t working in the Republicans favor they will abandon it.December 8, 2020 7:09 am at 7:09 am #1926970
Benny, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Democrats had no problem with gerrymandering for many many decades when it benefited them. They’ll now have to live with many years of gerrymandering advantageous to Republicans. Suddenly becoming johnny come lately’s against gerrymandering when it no longer suits their purposes won’t cut it. The Supreme Court has upheld gerrymandering and that settles the issue.December 8, 2020 8:56 am at 8:56 am #1926985
@Benny, really now? Democract Gerrymandering does not exist??? look and the Mass. NY and NJ maps and tell me it does not exist.
PS you never looked up the 98 NYS assembly district map that is over 70 miles longDecember 9, 2020 10:40 pm at 10:40 pm #1927477charliehallParticipant
The NY congressional map was drawn by a court, not Democrats. The NJ congressional map was drawn to eliminate a Democratic seat; it is a Republican gerrymander.
The NY State Assembly map is indeed a Democratic gerrymander but the NY Senate map is a highly partisan Republican gerrymander.
The only states where the congressional maps are Democratic gerrymanders are Maryland and Illinois.
Edited- please calm downDecember 13, 2020 10:34 am at 10:34 am #1928138MosheFromMidwoodParticipant
The Republican party for the most part is spineless and spends its time in power trying to please the press or Dems or whatever except for constituents. Lots of people like Trump for the very reason that he doesn’t behave like a typical GOPer.December 13, 2020 12:26 pm at 12:26 pm #1928176
@Charlie Hall, Really now? NJ redistricting in 2010 was controlled by a ten member bipartisan commission with the 11th member being a democrat, the combined district was Steve Rothman and Scott Garrett, the rest of the state was gerrymander heavy democrat.
Massachusetts is gerrymandered heavy democrat’s, after all that was the home state of Elbridge Gerry.
None of the NY state senate districts approach the absurdity of the state assembly districts, when you have 2/3s of the assembly districts south of the Tappan Zee Bridge you know something is messed upDecember 13, 2020 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #1928244Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
I think most of latest gerrymandering is Republican due to them winning a lot of local elections lately. Each party takes advantage of the rules when they can. It may be becoming worse lately as politicians have full demographic and predictive analytics on voters, and we, the voters, are at the losing end all the time.December 13, 2020 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #1928261
The gerrymandering has been a problem with both parties, although given that there were more Republican-controlled legislative bodies in the 2010/11 cycle, there were more Red states whose electoral boundaries were distorted to assure Republican control than blue states seeking to lock-in Democratic friendly district boundaries. When the Dems took control of both Virginia legislative bodies last year, they suddenly had questions about the wisdom of a bipartisan commission they had previously approved to limit future gerrymandering. After much debate, it was finally allowed to go forward but showed that political hypocrisy was still alive and well on BOTH sides of the aisle.December 13, 2020 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #1928275simcaParticipant
trump did not ruin the GOP its all lies. and everybody knows thatDecember 14, 2020 10:23 am at 10:23 am #1928390
gadolhadorah, your both sides argument doesn’t really work. There is clearly a growing backlash to partisan gerrymandering around the county, with voters approving ballot referendums in both red and blue states. Partisan fairness is not as much of a priority for the Republicans.
Virginia is moving forward with independent redistricting and the legislature is giving up power. The same is true in Colorado. Utah voters approved a redistricting measure but the legislature altered it so that they may ignore the independent maps and pass gerrymandered maps. The Ohio legislature allowed for a nearly worthless redistricting amendment. In Missouri, after voters approved independent redistricting in 2018, state lawmakers and GOP voters were able to repeal it. The Kansas Senate President openly embraced gerrymandering when she revealed plans for a map that would eliminate the lone Democratic Representative. Democrats have almost no chance in the near future of taking a legislative chamber in battleground states like Georgia or Wisconsin. The system is broken.December 14, 2020 10:25 am at 10:25 am #1928441
We cannot ruin something without the susceptibility to be ruined.December 14, 2020 10:25 am at 10:25 am #1928449
The GOP is no longer a Party, it is now a cult based on Idol Worship.December 14, 2020 11:03 am at 11:03 am #1928461
Benny, there is no bipartisan backlash to gerrymandering. The backlash is only coming from partisan Democrats. The Supreme Court of the United States has recently clearly upheld the legality of gerrymandering.
The system isn’t any more broken today than it was 60 years ago. The only difference is that 60 years ago the Democrat Party controlled most redistricting, especially in the South, and gerrymandered districts to their great benefit. That lasted many decades. Today, since about ten years ago, Republicans reversed that and gained the same control of redistricting that Democrats used to have. Democrats, of course, hate that. So they now decided it has become anti-democratic — since they are no longer in charge. It was good, though, while they ran the ship.
It may be true that today, due to micro level data on election districts by the block level and using sophisticated software algorithms gerrymandering can be done much “better” than could be done 20+ years ago. But it wasn’t due to Democrats lacking effort while they were in control to gerrymander to the most of their ability decades ago.
So it is the Democrats loss. They’ll have to live under this new regime. Not because I said so, but because the Supreme Court has so ruled.December 14, 2020 11:04 am at 11:04 am #1928460
The Democrat Party is today the modern version of the American Communist Party.December 14, 2020 12:03 pm at 12:03 pm #1928468
@CTlawyer: Jan 21 Joe Biden will raise his right hand and take the oath.
Jan 1 2021 fifty GOP senators will take the oath as will 213 GOP congressmembers
most state legislatures are GOP controlled, live goes on with or without DJTDecember 14, 2020 1:40 pm at 1:40 pm #1928487
You have absolutely no idea what you are posting
The Democrat Party is NOT Communist and never has been. It does not call for government ownership of everything.
It looks to expand government run and funded social dating back to the New Deal of 1933.
I like having Social Security and Medicare.
Did you refuse your stimulus check this year (disclosure I don’t qualify based on income limits).
Do your kids benefit from USDA school lunch assistance.
Do friends and family get Section 8, SNAP Benefits, WIC, Medicaid, ACA?
Perhaps you are a landlord, as I am and collect rents paid by the housing authority to holders of Section 8 vouchers. Maybe you are a doctor or dentist who can bill Medicaid for your patients…
Maybe you live in NYC and have a rent controlled or rent stabilized apartment, or use subsidized public transit.
Not all socialism is badDecember 14, 2020 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #1928541HealthParticipant
RR -“Saychal, AOC and her ilk haven’t hijacked the Democratic Party.”
Of course they have.
Bernie and the Squad just had a taped interview how they will implement their views with a Biden presidentcy.December 14, 2020 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #1928538HealthParticipant
RR -“It’s striking that Trump lost in an election where the GOP did well.”
He didn’t lose.
The DemonCrats planned to make sure Biden won with Multiple ways of Fraud!
It’s so funny how the DemonCrats knew Trump would win, but us Cons weren’t so sure.
They had more confidence in Trump, than most Cons.December 14, 2020 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #1928546
health, if people say you are drunk, it is a good idea to lie down and not to drive. If you are told Biden won, accept it.December 14, 2020 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm #1928557
TYPO….it reads social dating, should read social programs in my last post.December 14, 2020 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #1928559
Its been over since late at Night November 3, and been over, over as each of the swing states certified its vote. But as of 5:21 pm EST today, its OFFICIALLY OVER, when California voted pushing Biden to 302 electoral votes. DONE, GET OVER IT (excuse my CAPS which I always complain about others using).December 14, 2020 7:12 pm at 7:12 pm #1928570
Ghadorah: It ain’t over till the fat lady sings. That’ll only happen on January 6.December 14, 2020 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #1928583
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