June 15, 2011 9:26 am at 9:26 am #777504TakeaDeepBreathMember
To answer the OP’s plea for actual practical advice: if I’m wearing a skirt I’m concerned about (as some are ok if you sit slowly and smooth them but ride up if you don’t pay attention, or are straight, or cut oddly), or I’ll be doing something that might affect skirt coverage (re: roller coaster) I’ll make sure to either pack a shawl or scarf I can drape over my legs, or wear a sweater that I can take off and do the same with.June 15, 2011 9:34 am at 9:34 am #777505mikehall12382Member
Mdd…I dont see a joke anywhere in my post.
Pacman…As for being responsible for others there is a proper way to go about it. Criticizing is not the way. Maybe you should follow the example of Kiruv rabbis. They have a non confrontational judgmental approach. They get people to change and it’s not because they shame and tell people how wrong they are.
People would be more receptive with this approach.
The tznius crisis can be worked on through education, not telling women how wrong they are. You may actually drive women further away.
Work with people to get them to change telling them how wrong they are won’t work.June 15, 2011 10:57 am at 10:57 am #777506
So there is non tochacha and leitzanus in this thread.
Nothing I see that can be classified as tochacha. Some whining, preaching and a few snide remarks yes, tochacha, none. Leitzanus, plenty of it, mostly directed mostly towards the whining and snide remarks.
Again. Anyone see or hear from our terribly disturbed sandrac? That is leitzanus of the highest order.June 15, 2011 2:20 pm at 2:20 pm #777507
Humorous display is not leitzanus; as we imitate Hashem who also displays humor.June 15, 2011 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #777508Tzvi HirshMember
It is the same problem with hip hugger skirts when they lean forward their epidermis shows.June 15, 2011 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #777509oomisParticipant
Tzvi Hirsch is right – this is something I have been noticing very often. As soon as girls raise their arms or bend slightly to pick something up, the low back or belly is visible. I see it primarily when shopping, when someone reaches for something on a higher shelf.June 15, 2011 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #777511
Epidermis shows all the time. Not all Epidermis must be covered, unless you are referring to a problem (or a very similar one anyway) that seems to plague plumbers.June 15, 2011 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #777512Pac-ManMember
When the “problem” occurs to a girl in the supermarket, it is far far bigger problem than when it occurs to a plumber in the bathroom.June 15, 2011 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #777513mewhoParticipant
people know what they are buying . if they dont know before they try it on, they surely know afterward. if you puy a low skirt or a short shirt and you wear them together you HAVE TO KNOw that you will be showing some skin out in public.
seriously, some of these posts are laughable.
everyone should invest in a full length mirror as well so you know wheat you look like from top to bottom.June 15, 2011 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #777514
I think there is a tznius crises in the CR.June 16, 2011 3:39 am at 3:39 am #777515mddMember
Making a joke out of violating issurim is leitzanus.June 16, 2011 9:22 am at 9:22 am #777516
And also a leitzanus crises.June 16, 2011 9:42 am at 9:42 am #777517
“everyone should invest in a full length mirror as well so you know what you look like from top to bottom.”
I couldn’t agree more, especially for men who leave the house with pants and jacket from two different suits; shirt tails out of their pants; pant zippers down; stained clothing; etc.
Heard this from a Rav: One remedy for men who have tznius issues is for them to take off their glasses in problem locations.
And if you have perfect vision, wear glasses for distortion.June 16, 2011 11:13 am at 11:13 am #777518
Ooohhhhh you used bold font.
It is easy to point out peoples shortcomings. That is not tochacha. It is not even logical and it is definitely worthy of being shouted down, perhaps not outright leitzanus.
All I can say to those who are “deeply disturbed” with the car/tznius “crisis”, don’t be a peeping tom, stop looking into other peoples cars.June 16, 2011 11:19 am at 11:19 am #777519
Men. Worry about the clothing purchased and worn by your own wife and daughters. Don’t worry about plonis wife and daughters. If their dress “deeply disturbs you”, speak to ploni, stop berating his wife and daughters.June 16, 2011 1:31 pm at 1:31 pm #777521mddMember
Apashutayid, maybe, they should be allowed to walk around in bikinis and men just should not look? Why do you defend assias aveiros?
And I do take offence at your sarcastic insults.June 16, 2011 9:23 pm at 9:23 pm #777523
I am not defending anything. In fact, I have repeatedly stated that men should NOT look at women, or how they are dressed. They should certainly not be looking into other peoples cars. You stick your head where it doesnt belong, you run the risk of seeing things you might not want to see.
I am not defending women who dress in a way that violates halacha, perhaps you choose to see it that way. I have repeatedly commented about what I see as the foolish perpetuation of the almost obligatory browbeating of women, mostly by men. It accomplishes nothing and any attempt at tochacha (which I doubt is uppermost on most peoples minds but that is another story) is lost with the negativity.
Seriously want to make an impact? Explain to those who sell the objectionable clothing, why they should not. Your friend in shul has a wife or daughter who contributes to this so called crisis, speak to him, or the Rav, or the Rebbetzin, let them deal with it.
Note: To the moderator that did not allow an earlier post through, thank you. I regretted writing it 30 minutes after I did.
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