August 25, 2010 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #592209
Are there certain tzniyus guidelines one should have while exercising whether in the gym or at home? For example in the clothing we wear, in the exercise video we choose, the music for the exercise… or is it that it doesn’t really matter because the excuse is “exercise”, and that its for health reasons so basically I can do whatever I want. What do you think?August 25, 2010 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #693871its_meMember
ask a rabbi not a forum.for everything a yid does there is a halocha. this thread should be closed.August 25, 2010 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #693872
this thread should NOT be closed
discussions of Halacha are fine here
it is up to everyone to use their common sense and ask Shailos where appropriate. everyone knows this.
you are telling no one here a chiddushAugust 25, 2010 7:21 pm at 7:21 pm #693873dunnoMember
Don’t close it but spell exercise correctlyAugust 25, 2010 8:01 pm at 8:01 pm #693874
dunno- sorry, its just one of my words that i can never get straight…but back on topic do you think it is ok to let down all of tznius guidelines for excersize whoops I mean exercise (its a very bad habit!), or should there be a certain awareness of how much to let go- obviously i don’t expect ppl to exercise in their everyday clothing.August 25, 2010 8:21 pm at 8:21 pm #693875SJSinNYCMember
It depends on where you are excersizing, who is around and what your sensitivities are. This is more of a sensitivity than a halachic discussion IMO (obviously basic halacha applies).
e x e r c i s eAugust 25, 2010 8:30 pm at 8:30 pm #693876whatrutalkingabtMember
Really depends what you feel comfortable doing. But my opinion is that in public you should still dress tzniyus and in private its fine to be untzniyus. The music should still be jewish unless its classical, but I have some friends who once took a gym class in a frum place and danced to this horribly disgusting music that made them move in sick ways. As far as the video you choose, I think it depends how sensitive you are but I would only watch an untzniyus lady if I knew no boys would mistakenly walk in. Otherwise I wouldnt care how shes dressed.August 25, 2010 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #693877
I agree with your post- except for the music part. I don’t see anything wrong with using non jewish music- as long a it doesn’t sound like its coming from a reall pritzus place. Fast, beaty music (not rocky) can do the job too.August 25, 2010 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #693878smartcookieMember
Well if you swim in a bathing suit, then why is exercising in a FEMALE ONLY group different?August 25, 2010 10:35 pm at 10:35 pm #693879dveykus613Participant
this may have opened a pandora’s box….but swimming was different since pple had no choice, but being as the shechina is everywhere and we are supposed to be tznius it could be that now that there are tznius bathing suits, if practical, we should wear them….and if possible to practical yet tznius clothing 4 exercise we should…I can’t say I am always or usually makpid on this but if we are discussing it, it does seem that way to me I’m curious what the LOR would say…August 25, 2010 10:49 pm at 10:49 pm #693880sorisueParticipant
As far as the music goes, there is a set of cds called j-walking that features Jewish music that is fast and “beaty”. It is actually designed for exercise with a certain amount of beats per second. The issue of clothes is a more basic issue. Are we allowed to do things in our private homes, that we would be embarrassed to do in public?August 25, 2010 11:04 pm at 11:04 pm #693881dunnoMember
I think any type of clothing is ok if no men (other than immediate family members) will walk in. As for music, I stick to the beaty Jewish ones but I don’t see a problem with some of the non Jewish ones – as long as the language, content, etc is ok.August 26, 2010 1:49 am at 1:49 am #693885sof davar hakol nishmaMember
i know someone who joined an exercise aerobics class and had the same problem. it was all frum women, and they would go with pants, (no skirt on top) short sleeves (and sometimes worse, hameivin yavin) no head coverings… she asked a shayla about it and the answer was that al pi halacha it’s 100% ok because it’s all women. the analogy her posek used was – swimming and bathing suits. It’s really a sensitivity. Lemmaasa, there is a different part of tznius that is – even when someone is alone they’re suppose to dress properly because the Shechina is everywhere, and we have to be respectful and dressed accordingly everywhere. (this is one aspect of tznius that also applies to men)
As far as music, they also used goyish music, and sometimes with words – that were NOT appropriate under ANY circumstances. She found herself humming the tunes and songs throughout the day. At this point, she just left. she tried speaking with the lady who ran it and she got no where.
Blinky, it’s all a matter of extra sensitivities, and it never hurts to be more careful.August 26, 2010 1:54 am at 1:54 am #693886smartcookieMember
Dveykus- why don’t people have a choice when they swim? You’re used to it that we swim in bathing suits. But it’s wouldn’t be terrible to swim with long sleeves and socks.
I’m not saying we should do that but I think they’re very similar.
If it’s woman only, then I don’t know if there’s a problem.but I’m not a LOR 🙂August 26, 2010 2:09 am at 2:09 am #693887New York YidMember
Last I checked, the Torah tells us “Unishmartem M’od L’nafshoseichem” – and exercise is a pivotal aspect to keeping our bodies healthy. The Imahos may not have been joining Zumba and Pilates classes but they also were living agricultural lifestyles – filling water at the well, walking and moving constantly – they weren’t spending their days driving carpool, sitting behind desks, and basically leading sedentary lifestyles. Let’s not forget that Rivkah Imeinu gave water to ten camels – not an easy task – and Rachel and Leah brought their flocks to the well to water.August 26, 2010 4:58 am at 4:58 am #693891Dave HirschParticipant
Don’t remember the exact M”M off-hand, but the Minchas Yitzchak rules (regarding pants) that exercise is not an excuse to forgo on Tznius.August 26, 2010 12:34 pm at 12:34 pm #693892
If you want your children to be Kohanim Gedolim, or you act based on Zohar, you should not change anything that you would go out in the street.
And yes, it is from Kimchis.August 26, 2010 1:37 pm at 1:37 pm #693893SJSinNYCMember
GAW, as my husband is not a Kohen, that is a (spiritual?) impossibility for us. I guess that gives me an excuse not to act like Kimchis!August 26, 2010 2:54 pm at 2:54 pm #693894
New York Yid- You mentioned Zumba classes. For those of you who don’t know what Zumba is- its a certain excersize that has horrible music, along with horrible, provocative moves. Actually in certain places i know it was assured. There is nothing wrong with exercise but you can acheive the same results by choosing one that doe not sound as if your coming straight from a real goyish place.August 26, 2010 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #693895
I guess that gives me an excuse not to act like Kimchis!
Never claimed Kimchis was Halacha, no problem here.August 26, 2010 3:23 pm at 3:23 pm #693896
I don’t know what the Heter for swimming “Untniuzdigerhiet”, but it might be because it is dangerous to swim with much clothing on, because you can get dragged down. But with regard to Excersise, I don’t see a safety issue for being dressed Tzniusdig, rather a convenience issue. So I don’t really get what this “Sensitivity” gibbirish is all about.
The Halacha is that even in private, you’re not allowed to be dressed inappropriatly, because the Shechina is all over.August 26, 2010 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #693897
Go back and look up those halachos again.
All that is said there is regarding Erva Mamish.August 26, 2010 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #693898
Chosson is correct. Even when undressing in your very own bedroom with no one else present, you are supposed to do so only under the blanket.August 26, 2010 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #693899
Thank you Helpful, You’ve been most helpful(lol). GAW- Check Siman Beis in Mishna Berurah, and you’ll see that even socks are supposed to be donned and taken off under the blanketAugust 26, 2010 3:36 pm at 3:36 pm #693900
I think what Chosson is saying is true that in your own home there still is an issue of tzniyus- but i think that for exercising you can dress more comfortably- but to an extent. Meaning a tee shirt and pants, as long as ervah does not show.August 26, 2010 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #693901
Correct me if I did’nt understand you “Blinky”, In your house where M’Tzad people there isn’t a problem, you should be dressed app. but in the gym where there are people albiet women, you can be dressed ‘more comfortably’?
why does’nt that make sense?August 26, 2010 3:42 pm at 3:42 pm #693902
I wasn’t commenting on the gym at all- bec. i was commenting on your post which you mentioned the home. But I would definitly say the same is for the gym too- Some tzniyus still applies.August 26, 2010 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #693903
Even men need to undress under the blanket.August 26, 2010 3:51 pm at 3:51 pm #693904
I was refering to Hilchos Kriyas Shema (Simin Ayin Daled). I will take a look at the Halachos af getting dressed again.August 26, 2010 3:51 pm at 3:51 pm #693905
It’s amazing to see how many people used the words: comfort, sensetivity,. As if Halacha is a term and concept to be placed in the last sentence of the blog (i.e. “I think any type of clothing is ok if no men (other than immediate family members) will walk in. As for music, I stick to the beaty Jewish ones but I don’t see a problem with some of the non Jewish ones – as long as the language, content, etc is ok.” ). There is a beautiful vort, V’ele Mishpatim Asher Tasim Lifanecah, The Mishpatim (i.e. Tznius in our case) should be placed in front of you. (i.e. your “comfort, convience”) when it contradicts each otherAugust 26, 2010 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #693906
i was told changing in a bathroom that has a shower or bathtub in it is also acceptable.August 26, 2010 4:02 pm at 4:02 pm #693907
So I took a look at the Mishna Berurah in Simin Beis, and you do have a point, even though I am not sure if it would apply to anything you would walk around with in public (if not for Ervah type Tznius).
I suggest one asks their own Rav. But thank you for correcting me.
The key here is “Kol Ma Shedarko L’heyos Mechusa L’OLAM”. IIRC, there is a question if this includes an undershirt in this time period.August 26, 2010 4:03 pm at 4:03 pm #693908
Are there any good gym’s in the B.P., Flatbush area?August 26, 2010 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #693910
Mod. What does a shower/bathtub have to do with a/t?August 26, 2010 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #693911
im not sure
something about the having the status of a bathhouseAugust 26, 2010 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #693912apushatayidParticipant
It may be the derech to dress a certain way while doing the Zumba (I have no clue what Zumba is or how one dresses when Zumba-ing) or yoga, but perhaps that is not the appropriate derech?August 26, 2010 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #693913
apushatayid- there is no set “derech” of how to dress while exercising. Some ppl are more tzniyus then others.
By the way the reason I mentioned Zumba was bec. of the type of exercise it is- not the dress code.August 26, 2010 5:10 pm at 5:10 pm #693914
A Pushita Yid, Please elaborate.August 26, 2010 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #693915SRPsychMember
I’m not sure there is only a “comfort” or “sensitivity” level involved here. I think some women choose women’s only gyms – as opposed to mixed gyms, or walking outside for exercise – because it is actually quite difficult to exercise in a snood and long skirt. One gets awfully hot, awfully quickly, with one’s head covered; the skirt gets caught in the bike pedals, or on the step. I would imagine that those who want to stay fully dressed have more options of where to exercise.August 26, 2010 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #693916no it allMember
to raise a diff point wht about the arcades in these places that the girls go and dance as if they are in there room with there wii
how can any of us bring our older boys to an arcade place on chol hamoed or any time it is ridiculousAugust 26, 2010 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #693917sof davar hakol nishmaMember
“GAW, as my husband is not a Kohen, that is a (spiritual?) impossibility for us. I guess that gives me an excuse not to act like Kimchis! “
The whole thing with kimchis, the question was asked why she was zoche that all her children become Kohanim gedolim, and she answered because even the walls of her inner room didn’t see her hair. It’s not a question of excuses/not.August 26, 2010 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #693918apushatayidParticipant
whats to elaborate? the shulchan aruch is clear that one may walk unclothed in a bathouse because it is the derech to dress that way in that place. some seemed to be applying that logic to excercise. all I was saying is that just because it is the derech to do something, doesnt mean it is proper (maybe it is the wrong derech).
I dont zumba or do yoga. I’m not female and have no idea how they dress at the gym or what the accepted “derech”, mode of dress is at a womens gym whether with frum women only or any other women. I suppose if my wife asked me if something was appropriate or not, I would think about it then.
Personally, I wear shorts and a t-shirt when I excercise, whether on the treadmill, playing raquetball or basketball. I dont think there is anything inherently untznius in my dressing that way, I just dont dress that way to do shopping or go to work. I am guessing that other people who excercise, male or female, dont think so either.August 26, 2010 7:30 pm at 7:30 pm #693919
apushatayid- Ok so I agree with you that you can wear shorts and a tee shirt to exercise, but what about something thats more revealing than that? Meaning, do you think that s/o can wear whatever they want, or does some tzniyus still apply?August 26, 2010 11:05 pm at 11:05 pm #693920oomisParticipant
The whole thing with Kimchis is that SHE answered the question as to what SHE believed was the reason for that zechus. She could have been totally mistaken. Chazal included this story in the Gemarah to illustrate a certain hashkafa in tznius. It was probably not told to Moshe Rabbeinu M’Sinai, and certainly not meant to imply it is halacha.
“Last I checked, the Torah tells us “Unishmartem M’od L’nafshoseichem” – and exercise is a pivotal aspect to keeping our bodies healthy. The Imahos may not have been joining Zumba and Pilates classes but they also were living agricultural lifestyles – filling water at the well, walking and moving constantly – they weren’t spending their days driving carpool, sitting behind desks, and basically leading sedentary lifestyles. Let’s not forget that Rivkah Imeinu gave water to ten camels – not an easy task – and Rachel and Leah brought their flocks to the well to water. “
It’s funny, I thought I had posted something similar to what you said here, but I don’t see the post, so maybe I deleted it before sending.August 27, 2010 2:41 am at 2:41 am #693921mw13Participant
no it all: “to raise a diff point wht about the arcades in these places that the girls go and dance as if they are in there room with there wii how can any of us bring our older boys to an arcade place on chol hamoed or any time it is ridiculous”
Good point. (Btw, you you probably wanted to say their room/their wii, not there.)
oomis1105: “Chazal included this story in the Gemarah to illustrate a certain hashkafa in tznius… and certainly not meant to imply it is halacha.”
Nobody said it was halacha; it was merely said that it is a good hashkafa, just as you said.August 27, 2010 2:50 am at 2:50 am #693922
Oomis, since when do women give their own narrowminded teitch of gemorahs? Yes, the gemorah cites Kimchis because the gemorah agrees with her. And no, the gemorah is not C”V “mistaken”, nor does the gemorah affirmatively and positively cite “mistaken” people.
The point about Kimchis isn’t only applicable to Kohanim. The point is by applying such tznius one will be greatly rewarded.
Since even socks are halachicly supposed to be donned and removed under the blanket, I don’t see any heter to dress any less in the house (including during exercise) than how one is required to be dressed outside the house.
No it all, good point about such pritzusdik body movements.August 27, 2010 3:30 am at 3:30 am #693923mw13Participant
Helpful: “since when do women give their own narrowminded teitch of gemorahs?”
“Yes, the gemorah cites Kimchis because the gemorah agrees with her. And no, the gemorah is not C”V “mistaken”, nor does the gemorah affirmatively and positively cite “mistaken” people.
The point about Kimchis isn’t only applicable to Kohanim. The point is by applying such tznius one will be greatly rewarded.”
Couldn’t agree more.August 27, 2010 4:17 am at 4:17 am #693924
mw13, its called for when someone repeatedly and constantly twists gemorahs not to her liking to reinterpert it to her liking — often with the exact opposite meaning the gemorah intended. I repeat, this has been a pattern.August 27, 2010 4:38 am at 4:38 am #693925shanMember
I don’t understand what the problem is. If nobody is around, women are allowed to wear pants to exercise. It’s not really possible to workout in our regular attire. All the men who are commenting are being waay to technical and not thinking about the discomfort. Gym classes and music are a separate issue, but again, it’s a sensitivity and personally, it should be the worst thing that a woman does. The world would be a much better place if the worst tznius/hashkafa issue we faced was gym clothes and beaty workout music. Please.August 27, 2010 4:45 am at 4:45 am #693926Midwest2Participant
Re: Gemorahs. Let only those who read Aramaic and learn b’iyun teitch gemorahs for us. That not only leaves out the ladies, but I suspect a lot of the gentlemen too. The current generation seems to have a lot of book-laden donkeys in it. The best thing to do is – surprise! – ask your rav. He knows you, knows what your halachic and hashkafic boundaries are, and can give you a personalized answer.
As for me, when I exercise, I wear a long, very loose skirt which allows plenty of motion, including high kicks, a loose stretch top with elbow-length sleeves, and a light head scarf. (For some reason I feel really weird without something on my head, even if there’s no one else around.) Swimming in a skirt is, however, not only awkward but dangerous. A regular swimsuit is OK.
That said, to each her own. I wouldn’t argue with anyone wearing pants in private. And a reminder – nobody poskens from the Gemorah, not even real poskim. Better to ask a qualified rav.
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