Unexpected Yichud – humor

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  • #1265430

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Can a single woman housesit at her neighbor’s home when her neighbor goes out of town if her neighbor has a grandfather clock in the living room?

    #1265525

    ๐Ÿ‘‘RebYidd23
    Participant

    It might actually be a grandmother clock. Did you ask?

    #1265565

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Yes. It’s a man for sure.

    #1265609

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    By the way, Yichud does not matter if one is single or married. Actually, the consequences could be worse if the woman is married.
    As long as there is a La-Z-Boy or Fry Daddy (an electric deep fryer, for those who may have never seen one), Mike&Ike candies, etc, no problem.

    #1265627

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Winnie The Pooh you’re on a roll!!! Well done ๐Ÿ˜„

    I couldn’t think of anymore. You’re right. So it really meant to say that she wasn’t his wife or daughter, or related to him (I don’t know how it goes with grandparents and other relatives, and if there is flexibility depending on the ages or etc on whether a woman can otherwise be alone with a grandfather-like family member.)

    Thank you ๐Ÿ™‚

    #1265628

    ๐Ÿ‘‘RebYidd23
    Participant

    If the woman is married, she can bring her husband. For single women that is not an option.

    #1265653

    Avi K
    Participant

    Is it permitted for a man and a woman to be the sole posters on on CR thread? BTW, theSepharadim have separate “mi sheberach”s for the cholim and cholot, or as some put it, the mitrapim and mitrapot (OK, the nusachot are different. The women are called “hanashim hakevodot”. I told them to be careful it does not come out “hanashim hakevedot”).

    #1265655

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Not to worry, it doesn’t work:
    My Grandfather’s Clock

    My grandfather’s clock was too large for the shelf
    So it stood ninety years on the floor
    It was taller by half than the old man himself
    Though it weighed not a pennyweight more
    It was bought on the morn of the day that he was born
    And was always his treasure and pride
    But it stopped, short never to go again
    When the old man died
    Ninety years without slumbering
    His life seconds numbering
    It stopped, short never to go again
    When the old man died
    My grandfather said that of those he could hire
    Not a servant so faithful he found
    For it wasted no time and had but one desire
    At the close of each week to be wound
    And it kept in its place, not a frown upon its face
    And its hands never hung by its side
    But it stopped short, never to go again
    When the old man died

    #1265644

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    I’ve been sick with some virus that I caught from the kids and spending way too much time in bed with nothing to read but the CR. Either the virus is attacking my rational brain or my immune system is weakened and your sense of humor is contagious.

     

    Refuah Shelaima!

    #1265708

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Actually, yichud can be more of a problem if the woman is single. If she’s married and her husband is in town, it might not be a problem halachically.

    #1265944

    ๐Ÿ‘‘RebYidd23
    Participant

    There are always the silent lurkers and the mods.

    #1265969

    Joseph
    Participant

    A single girl with her brother would be yichud for a second man?

    #1265980

    rebshidduch
    Participant

    Lilmod, that does not sound right.

    #1266057

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Rebshidduch, there is a concept called ื‘ืขืœื” ื‘ืขื™ืจ “her husband is in the city”. According to halacha, if a woman’s husband is in the same city, the laws of yichud are more lenient. This is because there is a fear that he may come home at any moment.

    One should ask a sheilah before applying this leniency as it may depend on the situation.

    It definitely can make things easier in certain circumstances:

    1. When you have a Frum workman over
    2. If you have a boy boarding/living by you.

    I know someone who relied on this leniency when a teenage boy who couldn’t live at home was living by them. Otherwise, he would never have been able to be in the house when she was home and her husband wasn’t which would make things very complicated, since women are generally home a lot more than their husbands.

    #1266105

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    But lilmod, in LB’s story, the woman is house-sitting in a neighbor’s house, alone with the grandfather clock. I think that halacha would only apply to the husband coming to his own home, no?

    #1266114

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    You forgot the tick-tock-tick-tock sound effects part after the slumbering and numbering…
    I didn’t know anyone else knew that song!

    #1266372

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    WTP – oh, good point. I’m not sure though. I feel like I may have read something about using this heter for doctors’ visits, but it was years ago, and I really don’t know if I am remembering right.

    I do think that the heter is based on her fear of her husband, so I can see how it might be possible that it would apply even not in her own home (since it’s not just based on the technical fact that he might walk home but on her feeling of fear which might be there just based on knowing he’s in the city).

    But I’m really not sure.

    #1266376

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Yay that’s a new song for me ๐Ÿ™‚

    #1266638

    Meno
    Participant

    Ummm… A grandfather clock is not a person

    #1266647

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Meno – really? So you mean there is no halachic issue here???

    #1266651

    Meno
    Participant

    I’m not a rabbi

    #1266722

    Iโ€™m not a rabbi

    So how do you know that a grandfather clock is not a person?

    #1266727

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Regarding yichud with non-persons:
    I once worked at a job at which I was allowed to choose my own hours according to my convenience. This arrangement worked really well for me since I was allowed to go to work and leave whenever I felt like it.

    There was only one man who worked there besides the boss. One day, he told me that he lost his key so he wanted to know what hours I was going to be there since he didn’t have a key to get in or lock out so he could only work when someone else was there, and I was the only one who ever worked in the evenings.

    I had asked a sheilah about yichud and was told it was no problem since there were other people in the building and since anyone could enter at any time. But it was annoying for me to have to decide exactly when I was going to be working. The reason I liked the job was precisely because I could work when I felt like it.

    However, since it was a one-time thing, I didn’t make a big deal out of it. But then he kept asking me every day to let him know when I’d be working. I couldn’t deal with that, so I asked him why he didn’t just ask for a new key. He said his Rav had told him he’s not allowed to have the yichud with the computer, so that’s why he didn’t have a key.

    I told this story to someone and he thought it was funny that “yichud” with a woman was okay but not with a computer. I also thought it sounded funny, but I also thought it made sense.

    The differences are:
    1. It’s easier to be machshil with a computer, because you can convince yourself that it’s not a “real” aveira.
    2. With another person, both people have to be nechshol.
    3. People are embarrassed to do something wrong in front of other people.
    4. It wasn’t yichud for me because someone could come in at any time. With a computer, it’s easy to quickly shut it off when you hear/see someone coming.

    That being said, I don’t think anyone would say there’s a yichud problem with a clock. And I don’t think you have to be a rabbi for that “psak”.

    #1267545

    catch yourself
    Participant

    Winnie The Poo, I assume you deliberately omitted the George Foreman from the list because he isn’t a ื›ืฉืจ.

    I think it’s important to point out that the ื”ื™ืชืจ of ื‘ืขืœื” ื‘ืขื™ืจ does not apply in the case of ืœื‘ื• ื’ืก ื‘ื”, which may well include a next door neighbor or a boarder.

    #1267558

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “I think itโ€™s important to point out that the ื”ื™ืชืจ of ื‘ืขืœื” ื‘ืขื™ืจ does not apply in the case of ืœื‘ื• ื’ืก ื‘ื”, which may well include a next door neighbor or a boarder.”

    Thank you for pointing that out. I was wondering about that. I am pretty sure that I know people who relied on that heter for a boarder. On the other hand, I know people who were extra careful about yichud when I lived by them for that reason. I am guessing that it’s more complicated when the issue involves a single girl as opposed to a married lady and a teenage boy.

    #1267575

    Thinking allowed
    Participant

    About 12 years ago, my Rav said to me that if there had been internet in the time of Chazal, they would have instituted a gezeira or something of that sort, that would make it yichud for a man to be alone with a PC that is connected to the web. At the time I was considering a business to look up things for people in my area (medical, repairs, warrantee info, directions, whatever they needed), who did not have access to the web. I had many acquaintances who were always asking me to print out stuff for them, or would call me for directions because they were lost. I don’t think it was his opinion alone. It sounded like the concept had been discussed among other Rabbonim.

    In some communities, long before TAG was born, it was a given that if someone had internet access in their home it should only be located in a central location. And there are families where the password on their internet filter – or maybe the password for the master user account is made up of two parts. The husband knows one half, and the wife knows one half. They set up their computer that only a master account can access the web. That is the way they protect each other from using the computer clandestinely, or changing any protective settings. They both have to be present, and informed when either one of them is going online.

    Obviously this only works when the couple are true yirei shamayim, who, as a team are trying to make sure they don’t fall into a bottomless pit of “trouble” when using the internet.

    #1267584

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    What about a Murphy bed?

    #1269532

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    sometimes girls have boys’ names and vice versa. You can’t judge someone’s gender by their name (just look at the CR)

    #1269616

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    So a woman can have a yichud with Mike & Ike if Mike and Ike are women

    #1269648

    bmyer
    Participant

    Is it yichud if there’s little tikes around?

    #1269678

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    bmyer- good one
    how old are the little tikes?

    #1270142

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Even if they are men, as long as they are Frum and not “prutzim”, it ‘s fine. Two men and one woman is not yichud (as long as they are Frum and not “prutzim”.

    #1270143

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Although if one of them is a man and the other is a woman, you have a problem. What kind of a name is Ike?
    But then again, they hang out so much together, I assume they are married, so in that case, it’s fine anyhow.

    #1270164

    Ike is short for Isaac.

    They’re prutzim, though. Did you ever see the loud colors they dress in?

    #1270173

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “Ike is short for Isaac.:

    Thank you. I hadn’t known that. I guess they are Jewish then – ืžื™ื›ืืœ and ื™ืฆื—ืง

    #1270183

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Little Tikes is the brand name of infant & children’s toys ๐Ÿ™‚

    Little Tikes: “Infant and young children’s toys and furniture for indoor and outdoor use, including picnic tables, sand boxes & kitchens.” (Little Tikes website)

    #1270204

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    LB – little tikes is a term for little kids. According to halacha, if there are kids in the room/house (I think you need one boy and one girl), then it might not be yichud. But they have to be a certain age. It is not the same age at which yichud would actually apply to them.

    #1270200

    chiefshmerel
    Participant

    Joesph, no it is not a problem for her brother.

    #1270201

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    If they are men, they are allowed to wear loud colors.

    #1270212

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    LU: True yet given the context of this thread, where people are mentioning household objects, foods, and such that sound like they refer to someone’s name and/or gender, I took it that bmyer was being clever with a play on words. Thank you LU for looking out for me by giving me a heads-up here ๐Ÿ™‚

    —–

    Bmyer: What did you mean by ‘little tikes”?

    #1270219

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    It may also be an issue if Mr. Clean is around.

    But maybe it’s okay to be alone grandfather clock if Aunt Jemima is also there? ๐Ÿ™‚

    #1270224

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    LB – I’m sure it was a play on words – I just wasn’t sure if you got the other meaning of the word. Sorry for doubting you.

    #1270227

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    I think he means – is it yichud for the second guy? I’m fairly certain that it’s not, but I don’t want to say 100% for sure.

    #1270233

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    All good <3

    Thanks LU ๐Ÿ™‚

    #1270237

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Hey if it was a yichud with Mr. Bean, maybe that would be okay since he’s really a legume ๐Ÿ˜‰

    #1270236

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Joseph asked: “A single girl with her brother would be yichud for a second man?” (Joseph)

    You said that it is not a problem for the brother, but I think that the question was asking if it was a problem for the other man.

    Thank you

    #1270240

    catch yourself
    Participant

    Any time there are people present for whom there is not a problem of Yichud, there is no problem for anyone else who is there. Since the brother and sister are allowed to be together, there is no problem for the second man either.

    Mr. Clean is definitely a Parutz. I believe the same is true for Cap’n Crunch. I don’t know about Granny Smith, but it’s a moot point since she’s a woman.
    Gefen and Manischewitz, though, should be ok (as long as they’re both present).

    #1270266

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    little tikes is the toy brand
    tyke is a small child. note spelling difference.
    It was an obvious and cute play on words.

    #1270281

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “Any time there are people present for whom there is not a problem of Yichud, there is no problem for anyone else who is there. ”

    That’s what I thought, although I wasn’t 100% sure. Also, one case in which I don’t know whether or not that rule applies and I’m not sure what the halacha is: If there is 1 man, 1 married woman whose husband is in town, and 1 single girl.
    It’s not a problem for the married woman since her husband is in town (assuming all necessary conditions for this rule to apply are in place), but would that make it okay for the single girl? ื‘ืขืœื” ื‘ืขื™ืจ doesn’t help her, so why should it be okay just because it’s okay for the other lady?

    #1270303

    catch yourself
    Participant

    There is an expectation that nothing inappropriate will be allowed to occur, since the married woman in any case won’t participate.
    This psychological insight provides the basis for much of ื”ืœื›ื•ืช ื™ื—ื•ื“.

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