January 26, 2012 4:17 am at 4:17 am #601792hudiParticipant
Did the Vilna Gaon say anything about the Holocaust and the final redemption? Did he make any predictions about Mashiach? Please provide sources if you have them.
Thank YouJanuary 26, 2012 6:37 am at 6:37 am #846625
One of his talmidim, Rabbi Hillel Shklover wrote a book called “Kol HaTor”, which has been translated into English as “Voice of the Turtledove”. In it he speaks of two mashiachs: Mashiach ben Yosef and Mashiach ben David. The job of Mashiach ben Yosef is gathering in the exiles and building the material aspects of EY (Rav Kook sya in his eulogy for Herzl, “Misped b’Yerushalayim” printed in “Maamarei HaRaya”) thatt his leads to an antipathy towards Tora as Mashiach ben Yosef concerns himself exclusively with material matters (Rav Kook held that Herzl or the secular Zionist movement in general was Mashiach ben Yosef). The job of Mashiach ben David is buiding the spiritual aspect culminating in the Bet HaMikdash. He also says that the Gra said that in the time before Mashiach (ikveta d’Mashicha) the sin of the Spies will affect many who learn Tora and love Galut (see also “Em HaBanim Semeicha”, which has also been translated into English). He also states that whereas Mashiach ben Yosef will give way to Mashiach ben David he may or may not actually die depending on whether or not Am Yisrael davens for him. I do not know if he discusses the Holocuast but the Gemara states that a ruler will arise who decrees are worse than those of Haman (Sanhedrin 97b). This could refer to the designer of the Holocaust (see Megilla 6b that if not fore Hashem restraining them “Germamia” would destroy the world – Rav Yaakov Emden says that it is “our Ashkenaz” and the Gra says that it should read “Germania”) who decreed against both Jewish lives and Jewish religious practices and planned to also outlaw Natzrut because of its Jewish origins).January 26, 2012 7:12 am at 7:12 am #846626
There is a famous idea brought by the GRA that sefer Devarim’s 10 parshios(netzavim and vayaylech are counted as one) corresponds to one century in the sixth millennium. Following this chesbon history fits with the words of the parsha’s events and ideas.There is a remez to the GRA himself(even shelaima in the sixth parsha).People going to Eretz Yisrael ,7th cent. The Holocaust I do believe people have fit it in with this chesbon as well.January 26, 2012 3:42 pm at 3:42 pm #846627ItcheSrulikMember
In other words, you are telling me that we are in the middle of ki savo?January 26, 2012 3:43 pm at 3:43 pm #846628BaalHaboozeParticipant
Sam4321 – that’s correct. the century of 1940-2040 (5700-5800 of to the Jewish dates) is Nitzovim -Vayeilech. According to the V.G.’s cheshbon, it’s right there in the chumash-the holocaust-Parshas Nitzovim-Vayeilech, I don’t have a chumash here by me but it says something to effect, if you don’t listen to Hashem, a great catastophe will befall the yidden, “…?????? ??? ????…” …aaaargh, I forget the words, it’s tickling my brain, but anyhow,)…even the goyim will ask why this horrible holocaust happened and you will say because we did not heed the words of the totah etc, etc.January 26, 2012 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #846629BaalHaboozeParticipant
Devorim: 5000-5100 (1240-1340 )
Va’eschanan: 5100-5200 (1340-1440)
Eikev: 5200-5300 (1440-1540)
Re’eh: 5300-5400 (1540-1640)
Shoftim: 5400-5500 (1640-1740)
Ki Seitzei: 5500-5600 (1740-1840)
Ki Savo: 5600-5700 (1840-1940)
Nitzavim, VaYeilech: 5700-5800 (1940-2040 *OUR CENTURY*)
Ha’azinu: 5800-5900 (2040-2140)
V’Zos HaBrocho: 5900-6000 (2240-2340)January 26, 2012 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #846630emanParticipant
No we are at the end of Vayeilach.January 26, 2012 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm #846631
I heard bsheim the kol hatur that klal yisrael in EY is moshiach ben yosef and moshiach ben yosef doesn’t have to die, and that if they live past amar oyeiv erdof in az yashir (the roshei teivos of that passuk equals 5751 which was the year of the gulf warJanuary 26, 2012 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #846632
The Zohar says that each 1,000 years correspond to one day of
Creation. This is based on the pasuk Tehillim 90:4):
?? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ??????? ?????
According to this we are now in Mincha Gedola of Erev Shabbat.
Consider a few facts:
Tzet HaKochavim(approx.) Ramban makes aliya
Netz (approx.) Gra and Baal Shem Tov
3 hours (keriat Shema) Rav Kuk born
4 hours (tefilla) Rav Kuk makes aliya
5 hours (biur chametz) Medinat Yisrael established
Chatzot Mass aliya from FSUJanuary 26, 2012 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #846633HaLeiViParticipant
Vayelech > Rav Kook went
Nitzavim > Rav Kook stoodJanuary 27, 2012 1:17 am at 1:17 am #846634longarekelMember
Following this cheshbon 5772 is mincha gedola. v’haya l’es erev yihye ohr(zecharya 14). Erev is gematria 272 and exactly 272 years after the morning(5500) will be erev. So get ready for something big in the near future. The gra speaks about this in tikkunei zohar and safra d’tzniusa. I hope to post sources soon. mashiach ben yosef may be a movement not a person. Possibly this is why the Rambam makes no mention of him although the Gemara in succah 52 clearly does, since it is an aggada not meant to be understood literally. (I have already posted elsewhere that there are serios questions about the validity of all that is written in sefer kol hator. Rav M. Shternbuch makes this point in a tshuva).January 27, 2012 2:59 am at 2:59 am #846635
Longarkel, on the other hand Rabbi Chaim Friedlander said that there is no doubt as to its authenticity and that it is in completely from the Gra’s Tora. Rav Tzvi Yehuda (Kuk) also considered it to be a very important sefer and the 5754 edition has sevral introductions from rabbanei Yeushalayim . Even Rav Sternbuch admits taht the sefer “may” have been written by Rabbi Hillel Shklover (Rivlin) but that “inaccuracies” were put in. However, the sefer was first published by Rabbi Hillel’s descendants, who are such an illustrious family that one acquaintance of mine said that Yerushalayim has three eidot: Ashkenazim, Sepharadim and Rivlinim.January 27, 2012 3:56 am at 3:56 am #846636gefenParticipant
I just read some place that Rav Kaduri said that Moshiach will come after Ariel Sharon dies. He apparently said this shortly before he (Rav Kaduri) died at the age of 108. It is also said that he left a note stating who Moshiach is. It was not to be opened until a year after his death. One year later, his son opened it. But it’s not exactly clear to whom he was referring. It seems that Moshiach had appeared to him perhaps in a dream – not sure of the whole story.
Has anyone else heard about this?January 27, 2012 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #846637yungerman1Participant
gefen- I dont believe that story.
As the saying goes, “those who know dont say, and those who say dont know”January 27, 2012 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #846638popa_bar_abbaParticipant
As the saying goes, “those who know dont say, and those who say dont know”
Is that how it goes? I thought it was: “Those who don’t know say that all those who know don’t say and those who say don’t know.”January 27, 2012 3:22 pm at 3:22 pm #846639HaLeiViParticipant
Longa, I believe that Cheshbon is derived from the Zohar Chadash Parshas Balaq, according to one Girsa.January 27, 2012 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #846640Sam2Participant
The Gemara says bad things about those who try and figure out when Moshiach will come. This is not a discussion for a public forum.January 27, 2012 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm #846641
It does? Where?,
Anyways who tried figuring out the date hereJanuary 27, 2012 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #846642
Sam2: nobody knows the keitz, I think ppl are trying to figure out simanim which is given.January 27, 2012 7:04 pm at 7:04 pm #846643
Coffee addict: Sam2 is correct it is a gemara in Sanhedrin 97b,and the Rambam quotes it and says one should not do it. I do agree though that nobody is trying to do that here.January 27, 2012 8:37 pm at 8:37 pm #846644Sam2Participant
Sam4: It’s close enough. All of this is pure guesswork (no matter how educated) and can lead to problems if everyone is wrong.January 27, 2012 8:59 pm at 8:59 pm #846645
I didn’t say it was wrong I just wanted to know whereJanuary 28, 2012 5:22 pm at 5:22 pm #846646
Rav Yaakov Kaminetsky said that those who know don’t say and those who say don’t know.January 28, 2012 7:30 pm at 7:30 pm #846647twistedParticipant
The Rambam says that the Moshiach will arise from the society in EY, so the current yishuv may or may not be the setting, or you can speculate, if kibbutz galuyot precedes, the geula, is this the kibbutz galuyot? Would it be if rov yidden were here (comming soon) I heard quoted that Rav Kaduri ztzl “met the Moshiach” meaning that he is here, but in hiding. How could we hold that against him?
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