Voting Democrat

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  • This topic contains 46 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by  Avi K 5 months ago.
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  • #1642563

    1
    Participant

    Is it Assur to vote for a Democrat? Every issue on the party platform, is against Torah Jewry.

    #1642605

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Love it!
    Purim comes early this year!

    Here is the first chunk of the Deomcrat’s party platform (from 2016):

    ” RAISE INCOMES AND RESTORE ECONOMIC SECURITY FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS
    Raising Workers’ Wages
    Protecting Workers’ Fundamental Rights
    Supporting Working Families
    Helping More Workers Share in Near-Record Corporate Profits
    Expanding Access to Affordable Housing and Homeownership
    Protecting and Expanding Social Security
    Ensuring a Secure and Dignified Retirement
    Revitalizing Our Nation’s Postal Service”

    I knew the torah hated supporting working families and protecting workers rights,
    but who knew the Torah opposed revitalizing the post office?

    Thank you for the laugh.

    #1642632

    MDG
    Participant

    Ubiquitin,

    Much of what you listed may sound good, but those ideas are rooted in envy and greed disguised as fairness.

    #1642644

    Avi K
    Participant

    Ubiquitin, what about forcing people to change their religious beliefs (in particular to support toeva “weddings”), shutting up anybody who offends them (= anybody tro their right), appeasing Iran and other terrorists (in particular the Fakestinians) and bashing Israel?

    Regarding your hilarious list:
    1-2. How, pray tello? By fiat?
    3. What are “fundamental rights”? Not being fired no matter what they do?
    4. What does that mean? With whose money?
    5-6. See #1-2
    7. It’s already headed towards bankruptcy. They want to speed up the process?
    8. What is dignified? I am retired and I think that my dignity requires me to live in a mansion with servants and have a private jet. LOL
    9. The best thing to do is to let it die with dignity so that private industry can take over.

    #1642648

    MDG
    Participant

    “I knew the torah hated supporting working families and protecting workers rights,” said sarcastically.

    Why is it that the working class mainly votes Republican? They know who’s on their side.

    #1642659

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “what about forcing people to change their religious beliefs (in particular to support toeva “weddings”), shutting up anybody who offends them (= anybody tro their right), appeasing Iran and other terrorists (in particular the Fakestinians) and bashing Israel?”

    ok, i’ll bite what about it? sounds terrible!

    “Regarding your hilarious list:”
    It’s not mine its the DNC’s

    “1-2. How, pray tello? By fiat?”
    Read the platform, it is freely available on line

    “3. What are “fundamental rights”? Not being fired no matter what they do?”
    Read the platform, it is freely available on line

    “4. What does that mean? With whose money?”
    Read the platform, it is freely available on line

    “5-6. See #1-2”
    See the response to 1-2

    “7. It’s already headed towards bankruptcy. They want to speed up the process?”
    no

    “8. What is dignified? I am retired and I think that my dignity requires me to live in a mansion with servants and have a private jet. LOL”
    Read the platform, it is freely available on line.

    “9. The best thing to do is to let it die with dignity so that private industry can take over.”
    That very well may be, and note this isn’t a thread over whether the Democrats have the right or even good ideas

    It’s just about educating the masses that “Revitalizing Our Nation’s Postal Service” is against the Torah.

    (you are taking this too seriously obviously the OP was kidding and my response was to share the hilarity

    #1642672

    jackk
    Participant

    Ubiquitin ,

    Thanks for the laughs.
    There are a few users who repeatedly post against the Democrats. Do a search and you will see every few weeks another anti Dem, Pro Repub , Pro Trump , Anti Obama, Anti Hillary … post
    No matter how many times the other side is explained to them they will post again and again.
    At least we can have a good laugh in the CR when they do it.

    #1642693

    Avi K
    Participant

    Ubiquitin, I looked. More of the same economic illiteracy. More regs and higher taxes to strangle business. Just to give one example, raising the minimum wage creates unemployment (you can google this statement and get several articles) by pricing people who productivity is less out of the market. When NYC raised it, just to give one example, fast-food restaurants automated.

    #1642709

    1
    Participant

    If they wanted affordable housing, they wouldn’t punish us with high property taxes

    #1642707

    1
    Participant

    The democrats aren’t For The middle class. They want a dichotomy run by silicon valley.

    #1642713

    laskern
    Participant

    I believe in demand side economics by putting more money in the pocket of people, consumption increases and thereby investment increases. Supply side economics is voo-doo economics where there is no incentive to invest. This type of economics advocated by Democrats is closer to the Torah than the sink and swim type advocated by Republicans. Avi K, raising minimum wage gradually will not create unemployment.

    #1642729

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Just to give you an example……

    Avi

    That doesn’t register with Democrats they think that people will gladly give money out of their pocket only if they’re forced to and wouldn’t go and get automation do their work for them

    #1642730

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Avi

    “I looked.”
    Mazel;l tov!

    “More of the same economic illiteracy. More regs and higher taxes to strangle business. ”
    I’m not so sure you read the op. We arent disucssing if these ar e GOOd policies.

    ” Just to give one example,…”
    To give you a counter example, raising the minimum wage does not create unemployment (you can google this statement and get several articles) by adding money to workers’ pocketbooks and allows them to buy more goods and services, creating higher demand, which in turn requires hiring more workers.

    Again, though this isn’t the topic of this thread. you are of course free to start a thread on why the GOP’s platform is better , or why the DNC’s doesnt make sense.

    (Though while we are off topic, though of another example of the torah’s hatred of capitalism (if you recall we discussed this a few years back and I gave you a handful of examples showing how the Torah throughouly opposed pure capitalism fel free to dig it up) namely the issur of ani hamehapech becharara, yes it doesnt ALWAYS apply, )

    #1643360

    1
    Participant

    You conveniently left out the DNC position on isrsel. The Torah supports Jewish survival. Democrat policy risks it.

    #1643440

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    1.

    Lol!
    I wasn’t going to post their whole platform. you said “Every issue on the party platform, is against Torah Jewry.”

    As for their position on Israel, I assumed you where from neturie karta and felt that the Torah opposed Israel thus in that view the DNC pro- Israel position l was “against Torah Jewry”
    Apolagies if I misinterpreted your position I was trying to understand as many of their postions as being “Against Torah Jewry” to try to limit how wrong you are.

    Here is their position
    “A strong and secure Israel is vital to the United States because we share overarching strategic interests and the common values of democracy, equality, tolerance, and pluralism. That is why we will always support Israel’s right to defend itself, including by retaining its qualitative military edge, and oppose any effort to delegitimize Israel, including at the United Nations or through the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions Movement.

    We will continue to work toward a two-state solution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict negotiated directly by the parties that guarantees Israel’s future as a secure and democratic Jewish state with recognized borders and provides the Palestinians with independence, sovereignty, and dignity. While Jerusalem is a matter for final status negotiations, it should remain the capital of Israel, an undivided city accessible to people of all faiths. Israelis deserve security, recognition, and a normal life free from terror and incitement. Palestinians should be free to govern themselves in their own viable state, in peace and dignity.”

    #1643449

    anonymous
    Participant

    Democrats support:

    Toeava marriages and education
    Asistted suicide
    Abortion

    All of which are prohibited to support.

    Besides the rest ot the issues with the Democrats, becuase of the above reasons it is halachicly prohoboted to vote Democrat. Assisted suicide will eventually force all of us to pull the plug on our own relatives. The Democrats have no value of human life. They believe humans are just another type of animal, that is why they also support PETA and other anti-shechita orginazations. That is also why they are legalizing drugs. They have no shtultz or any self human dignity whatsoever.

    #1643463

    eisenshia1
    Participant

    Ubiquitin, you’re the laugh. Dems have become the party of anti seniors, certainly anti Israel, and as far as their policies to benefit the American people…they have none. They openly admit their agenda is to do investigations on Trump until they believe they find something on him to try to impeach. They care only about their own power, nothing else, certainly not benefitting the American people, not even the very low IQ idiots who are dumb enough to vote for them.

    #1643481

    1
    Participant

    The democrat rhetoric is not that. That is not the real position of Keith Ellison and Perez.

    #1643483

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    anon,
    while not all of your examples are accurate (some are Not in the democratic platform and some are not always assur) I did not mean to imply that ALL the Democrat’s potions align with the Torah.

    I’m sorry if you misunderstood.

    eisenshia
    ” you’re the laugh. ”
    Thank you! I’m glad to bring simcha to yidden

    “They openly admit their agenda is to do investigations on Trump until they believe they find something on him to try to impeach. ”
    I’m confused a line earlier you said ” and as far as their policies to benefit the American people…they have none.” which is it?

    Though again, worth noting Trump is not mentioned even once in the party platform, and again this thread isn’t about how great for america the Democrats would be.

    #1643515

    BocaMaggid
    Participant

    The Democrat platform sounds reasonable as far as it relates to Israel, nevertheless, we recently had a Democrat president. Either he never read or just disregarded the platform.

    #1643554

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    Can we please please stop with the pretense? The only reason that the frum oilom supports Republicans over Democrats is because of gay marriage. Period. There isn’t a single other issue that they differ on that ever comes up in reid.

    I don’t want to hear anything else about this unless this is acknowledged.

    #1643560

    1
    Participant

    Democrats might claim that they support Israel’s right to exist, but every time they are in power, they try to shrink Israel’s borders, force them to ceasefires, etc. Don’t forget.

    #1643626

    MDG
    Participant

    “The only reason that the frum oilom supports Republicans over Democrats is because of gay marriage. Period. ”

    Nope. It’s been a number of years that the frum world has chosen for school vouchers, against abortion, and for Israel, among other reasons.

    #1643617

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    The human Democrats only vote for the lizard Democrats because they believe in voting for the lesser of two evils.

    #1643697

    Amil Zola
    Participant

    Bocca Maggid, point of information. Under President Obama the US gave Israel $38 Billion for defense , certainly more than enough to provide healthcare for all Americans. More was give for education and research There is another $3B in the current budget that had been previously committed by President Obama.

    #1643817

    Avi K
    Participant

    Ubitquin, anybody who really believes in the so-called two-state solution (there are already three states: Israel, Jordan and Gaza) is living in a fool’s paradise. The Fakestinians will never declare peace with Israel. Moreover, Abbas is 83, in poor health and has no successor. Guess what is going to happen after he goes the way of all flesh.

    #1643884

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Avi

    “anybody who really believes in the so-called two-state solution (there are already three states: Israel, Jordan and Gaza) is living in a fool’s ”

    Agreed 100%. Though that isn’t what this topic is about. and I should note that the Republicans and Netanyahu for that matter all profess to believe it too.

    1.
    Ah yes who can forget the 2 Democrats Bush who forced Israel not to retaliate when scuds where rained down and pushed Israel to give up Gaza respectively

    #1643955

    Curiosity
    Participant

    Ubiquitin – you seem caught up with your hyperliteral interpretation of the words “party platform” in the OP. Everyone else here had enough reading comprehension skills to realize that the OP didn’t literally refer to the Democratic party’s published platform on their website. The PR material they publish is completely separate to their actual agenda and the de facto policies they pursue through political action. I guess simply writing that they are for Israel or for middle class is enough to convince voters like you, and that is why they do it. No offense.

    #1643964

    Participant
    Participant

    ITS ASSUR TO VOTE FOR ANYONE EXCEPT TRUMP WHO IS AN OHEIV YISROEL!!

    #1643972

    Yeshivishrockstar
    Participant

    If you like NYS education laws, then vote Dem.

    If you want your kids to know more about gays than normal people, then vote Dem.

    if you want to live in Mexico, then vote Dem.

    Otherwise, vote REPUBLICAN!

    #1644008

    Yeshivishrockstar
    Participant

    Let me guess – OP’s real name is Ezra Friedlander, right?

    #1644011

    Yeshivishrockstar
    Participant

    Sorry, I meant Ubiqutin’s real name is Ezra Friedlander.

    Professional tip: If s/he/xe’s a mushches, Ezra says vote for him/her/xe

    #1644175

    Avi K
    Participant

    Ubiquitin, the GOP platform does not mention it and Trump implied that he does not believe in it. I personally do not think that Netanyahu, or anyone else outside the fever swamps of liberalism really does. For some reason they think that they have to pay lip service. Even Abbas does not want it, IMHO. He keeps threatening to declare a state but never does.

    Participant, what about Pence/Haley for 2024?

    #1644277

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    curiosity

    Love your comment
    You must be a supporter of alternative facts Sure. IF PArty platform doesnt mean Party platform, Torah doesn’t mean Torah. Then it’s completely true

    “f we take it to mean that “every issue I think they believe is against what Sean Hannity tells me to think”

    Then yes the statement is true.
    sincerest apologies,

    “No offense.”

    Absolutely none taken. when you say “party platform” you should mean party platform. If you want to reply ok. Ubiquitin, you are technically 100% correct, but that isn’t what the op meant, stop being so literal.
    Sure. that could be true
    But that isnt what the op replied , he doubled down. Avi K got lost in some rambling about side issues. This kind of knee jerk poorly thought out positions amuses me. so don’t worry I am not offended and thoroughly enjoy this strange thread

    Avi,

    The GOP platform doesn’t mention how delicious pizza is either!
    I’m not sure how that is relevant but I guess we are sharing random facts now

    #1644279

    jackk
    Participant

    Curiosity ,

    Not everything that comes out of the mouth of a politician with a D after his name is the policy of the democratic party. Nor should it be a paslus in voting for democrats. That should be pashut and agreed upon by all. There are many different personalities and views in the democratic party.

    Similarly, there are many statements that come from politicians of the Republican party that are anti Torah and I am sure you do not agree with. Does that pasul them ?

    A favorite tactic of right wing radio hosts is to find the one idiotic politician/celebrity to say something stupid and to make believe as if every normal democrat holds this way.

    Most of what is assumed to be the opinions of democrats is based on this generalization.

    The quote: “every time they are in power, they try to shrink Israel’s borders, force them to ceasefires, etc. Don’t forget.” is simply false and inflammatory.
    Both democrat and republican presidents try to make peace in the region and save lives.
    They both want the 2 sides to come together for an agreement.

    The policy of democrats is not that Israel has to give up land or force them into ceasefires willy nilly.

    #1644285

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    As an aside I’m a bit confused by this thread.

    does anybody think the op’s initial comment was a real one? or added anything meaningful.
    Even if you think the Republican’s have better policies (not the subject of this thread) or that overall the GOP is closer to Torah (closer to the subject, but not what hte OP wrote)

    Is’nt it obvious that this whole thread started out silly.
    And that my response was a silly and (in my opinion) funny way to point out how silly this is?

    does anybody think I meant “I knew the torah hated supporting working families and protecting workers rights,” or that I thought the op felt that revitalizing the post office was “against Torah jewry” ?

    why would anybody take this thread seriously?

    #1644319

    Joseph
    Participant

    Friends don’t let friends vote Democrat.

    Stay safe.

    Vote Republican.

    #1644320

    BocaMaggid
    Participant

    Amil Zola, do you believe that appropriating the American people’s money to help our great ally makes up for the nasty and disrespectful treatment of Israel and its leader?

    #1644502

    Curiosity
    Participant

    Ubiquitin,
    Your response is nonsensical.
    “But that isnt what the op replied , he doubled down.”

    No. Actually the OP wrote:

    “Democrats might *claim* that they support Israel’s right to exist, but…”

    “The democrat *rhetoric* is not that. That is not the real position …”

    “If they wanted affordable housing, they wouldn’t punish us with high property taxes…”

    Everything the that the OP wrote indicated that he/she was specifically addressing the anti-Torah values of the Dem’s verbal rhetoric, political action, and de facto policy, not their written platform. Your argument that they *claim* to support our causes in their written platform, even though they clearly and persistently act against our interests actually counts against them because not only do they actively vote for policies antithetical to the Torah, but they also publicly lie about.

    Hannity is a shill. Please don’t assert that I can’t form my own opinion.

    #1644511

    Curiosity
    Participant

    Jackk,
    Not sure why you are quoting something someone else wrote in response to me, but to respond to you:

    The fallacy that Democratic politicians are anything other than a Hivemind that defaults to the most extreme left wing voice among them that is still publicly palatable is clearly evident. As Exhibit A , just look at how they vote in unified blocks on things that any rationally thinking group of moderate individuals would expectedly have differing opinions on. The Kavanaugh hearing is the most recent example to come to mind.

    I think Democratic voters are diverse in thought, but unfortunately the politicians don’t represent them. Just look at how your party’s sweetheart, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s rhetoric shifted once she got into office. Before the elections she promised she would move mountains and revolutionize the Dem party towards Marxism, and now she says her main priority is to support the establishment Democrats.

    #1644533

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Curiosity
    I think youre reading a different thread

    “Your argument that they *claim* to support our causes in their written platform”

    Not once did I argue that (in this thread)

    LEt’s review

    OP – Everything the democrats support is against the Torah
    Me- that’s silly here are a bunch of things they support that arent agaisnt the Torah
    now, you are claiming that I was being “hyperliteral ” since obviously the op couldn’t possibly mean that.
    Whcih of course I agree with no body could believe something so silly.

    On this though I was wrong, He then doubled down and instead of saying “I’ didn’t mean it literally” started listing random sentences like “If they wanted affordable housing, they wouldn’t punish us with high property taxes”

    Then you joined in, and seem confused too. as to whether you think the OP was kidding (as I did originally) or if the OP was right and that “Everything the that the OP wrote indicated that he/she was specifically addressing the anti-Torah values of the Dem’s ”

    Only a true Hannity follower could possibly be this confused.

    simple question the OP said
    “Every issue on the [ Democrat] party platform, is against Torah Jewry.” – True or false ?

    Don’t change it to “some issues that some Democrats believe in are against Torah Jewry” that is of course true and is not what we are discussing

    once again:
    “Every issue on the [ Democrat] party platform, is against Torah Jewry.” – True or false ?

    #1644578

    Amil Zola
    Participant

    Boccamaggid, The intent of my post was informational. I don’t engage in these emotional debates. I provided factual info on the amount of $ given to Israel the last year President Obama was in office.

    #1644694

    blacknwhite
    Participant

    they kill babies. a lot of them. all the time. millions even.

    #1644758

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    I provided factual info on the amount of $ given to Israel the last year President Obama was in office.

    I love it when Democrats attribute things to Obama when he shouldn’t get that much if any

    Congress (republican at that time) decides how to allocate money the president just signs it

    #1644756

    jackk
    Participant

    Blacknwhite,

    Republicans also have abortions. The SC ruled that it is legal. It was not decided by either party.

    #1644755

    jackk
    Participant

    Curiosity,
    Sorry I confused you with what someone else said.
    Your 2 examples are the exact exaggeration I am referring to.
    Cortez is a first term congressman from 1 district in NY who just got elected and hasn’t done anything yet , and somehow she represents the whole Democratic party. Absurd.
    To all the democratic voters all over the country who have voted over the past decade , she is a nothing. no matter how much press she gets.

    In the Kavannaugh hearings, the Republicans had the exact same herd mentality. Even Republican women that understand the gravity of the accusation voted for him.

    #1645122

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    In the Kavannaugh hearings, the Republicans had the exact same herd mentality. Even Republican women that understand the gravity of the accusation voted for him.

    No jackk it wasn’t hers mentality it was realizing that the dumbocrats play dirty and make up false accusations and bismurtch a good upstanding man

    #1645281

    MDG
    Participant
    #1645303

    Avi K
    Participant

    CA, what had gravity was the libels.
    1. Ford “could not remember” where or exactly when. She also claimed that she drove to the house herself even though she was only 15 and that afterwards she called a friend on a cell phone that did not exist.
    2. Ramirez also had memory problems but admitted hat she was very drunk.
    3. Swetnick is a serial liar represented by the same woman who sued Trump – and not only lost but was ordered to pay his legal expenses.
    4. The fourth woman is completely anonymous. Anybody can write an anonymous letter. “She” might not even be a woman.

    While we are on the subject, what about a drunken, adulterous (according to common American parlance) murderer lecturing the Senate on morality during the Bork hearing?

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