Walled Cities during Yehoshua Bin Nun's times

Home Forums Yom Tov Purim Walled Cities during Yehoshua Bin Nun's times

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  • #602291

    Which cities around the world were walled during Yehoshua Bin Nun’s times — and more importantly, how do we know so?

    #856918

    Sam2
    Participant

    YD: We don’t. A lot of cities in Eretz Yisroel actually read twice where there is minimal archaeological evidence but some that may imply walls.

    #856919

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Any city with the same geographical as Tiveria would at least be the same Safek.

    #856920

    Sam: I never heard that we base anything here on modern archeological evidence.

    #856921

    tina18
    Participant

    I saw something interesting yesterday. They did not want Yerushalayim to not be special like shushan, so they made it that a walled city is considered walled for the megilla as long as it had a wall during Yehoshua Bin Nun’s times. During the story of Purim it did not have a wall

    As a matter of fact , even shushan did not have a wall by Yehoshua Bin Nun’s times.

    Sam2 is correct – Tiveria, sefas, chevron all lain twice. On shushan purim without a bracha

    #856922

    yichusdik
    Participant

    There is actually significant archaeological evidence in Israel and elsewhere. The question is, how do you define a wall? If, for example, you are talking about a hillfort type city or fortification, with rampart and ditch walls at the outset, the earliest of those would have been during the early bronze age, which puts it at roughly 3300-3400 years ago, around the time of Yehoshua. There are a few examples in England and elsewhere in Europe, though most of these date from later.

    If you are talking about a city, and a stone or brick built wall, there are a number that likely fit the bill. Tel Hatzor, Tel Meggido, Yerushalayim, Sidon, Tzor, Chevron, Yafo, Dameshek (Damascus).

    There are places in modern Iraq or Syria that had walls at one time, like Ur, Carchemish, and Nineveh, but there are no cities above them today.

    In Greece, Athens and Argos are the oldest, dating earlier than Yehoshua, in Southeast Asia, Delhi and Luoyang also older.

    There are other places, like Mohenjo Daro in the Indus Valley, That are significantly older than these. And other places like Tiahuanaco in Peru that there is a lot of controversy about how old it is.

    There is physical evidence to substantiate these locations (and others I haven’t mentioned)

    Another thing to consider is the fact that there were likely many towns that built with wood rather than stone, and being organic, the evidence may have long since disappeared. Even up to the middle ages, fortifications were still being built with wood. In places where there is high humidity, the rate of decomposition would be very high, so places like Thailand, or Mexico might have had some fortified, walled cities that have simply disappeared into the jungle.

    #856923

    midwesterner
    Participant

    There are 8 cities listed in the gemara at the end of Arachin. Daf Yomi about 2-3 weeks ago.

    #856924

    sushee
    Member

    Prague had a wall then.

    #856925

    twisted
    Participant

    Yericho is one that we know for sure. And on the Yarkon, near the coast (@ between Zamir and Vietzman Streets in TA) was a Levite city, presumably walled, called Gat Rimon.

    #856926

    tina18
    Participant

    midwesterner – makes sense – but the reason I think is not to insult Yerushlayim

    #856927

    ED IT OR
    Participant

    I think jewsons have/had a wall 😀

    #856928

    What cities in Chutz L’aretz do we know had walls at the time?

    #856929

    dashâ„¢
    Participant

    What cities in Chutz L’aretz do we know had walls at the time?

    Baghdad, Damascus and Prague.

    #856930

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    According to most Damascus is NOT Chutz L’aretz

    #856931

    stuck
    Member

    Why would Damascus not be considered chutz?

    #856932

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    According to many if not Most Damascus is part of HALACHIC Eretz Yisroel

    BTW Elat is NOT part of Halachic Eretz Yisroel

    #856933

    dashâ„¢
    Participant

    According to many if not Most Damascus is part of HALACHIC Eretz Yisroel

    BTW Elat is NOT part of Halachic Eretz Yisroel

    How do you define/determine the boundries of Halachic Eretz Yisroel?

    #856934

    stuck
    Member

    There’s gotta be some way to determine it, since many halachas are different depending whether you are in or outside of Eretz Yisroel.

    #856935

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    How do you define/determine the boundries of Halachic Eretz Yisroel?

    The Poskim decide that, there are maps you can look up

    Beer Sheva is the Southern boundry, anywhere south of Beer Sheva is not halachily required to follow things like Terumah and Maaser , The Eastern Boundry is the Medateranian .

    The Western Boundry is somewhere in Jordan. I am not sure if Amman is included or Not.

    The Northern Boundry is in Lebanon and Syria, I dont know the exact boundries. I belive Damascus is not now required to hold by Halachot of Eretz Yisroel (Like Teruma Maaser) but will be required in the days of Moshiach.

    There are debates of he exact boundaries.

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