wearing perfume

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  • #599911

    aidel_maidel
    Participant

    k so my husband told me the other day that he gets very effected when smelling other ladies perfume so he asked if I could please wear a lot of perfume when we go places together to drown out everyone elses odor. I really dont know what to do cuz I am very makpid on tznius- am I machoyav to protect my husband or other men? (who comes first??)

    #817233

    Dr. Seuss
    Member

    Tell him to speak to a Rov. The very problem he is having by smelling other ladies who put on much perfume in public, he is asking you to cause other men. Does he or you really want to be nichshol other men and have other men thinking about you? It is not permitted.

    #817234

    miritchka
    Member

    this reminds me of a story that a coworker of mine told me. She said she never wore perfume before. But she did wear perfume on her first date. She ended up marrying the guy and he asked her to wear that perfume more often. I was cracking up cuz he gives the impression that he knows nothing about perfume! But, i learned that some men like some things, like perfume, and putting some on for your husband is not only fine, its the right thing to do.

    It doesnt sound like your husband meant for you to drown out other womens perfume, cuz that would be toxic!! lol!

    #817235

    cherrybim
    Participant

    So what happens when other men get very effected when smelling your perfume? Will their husbands then tell their wives to pour on more perfume to drown out yours?

    Using your husband’s logic, women will bathe in perfume so that their husbands will not be affected by the other woman’s scent.

    Frankly, I smell something in the air that tells me that your husband would just like to have you in perfume when you’re together, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

    #817236

    shlishi
    Member

    One may not wear perfume outside the home that is noticeable by others.

    #817237

    Sam2
    Participant

    I feel like it’s a Mefurash Gemara in Ta’anis that it’s Muttar.

    #817238

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Sounds to me like your husband doesn’t know how to say (or is embarrassed to say), “I like it when you wear perfume, please do so more often”.

    #817239

    mw13
    Participant

    I believe the Gemora brings down a story of an Amora (forgot who) who asked his wife to come great him all dressed up whenever he would come in to the city so he would not be nichshal by looking at other women. This would seem to be a similar case.

    But as always, ask your Rav.

    cherrybim/apushatayid:

    “Hevi dun es kol ha’odom li’kaf zechus…”

    shlishi:

    “One may not wear perfume outside the home that is noticeable by others.”

    Do you have a source for that?

    #817240

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “Hevi dun es kol ha’odom li’kaf zechus…”

    And this is not li’kaf zchus, how?

    #817241

    Sam2
    Participant

    mw13: No, he doesn’t. This was beaten to death in a thread about a month ago.

    #817242

    shlishi
    Member

    mw13: Lifnei Iver. A strange man is not permitted to smell it.

    #817243

    aidel_maidel
    Participant

    I dont have a rav that im comftorable enough with to ask, I usually tell my husband to ask his rav all our questions- but not this one he would not appreciate it. would someone be able to ask for me?

    apashutyid- I do wear perfume around the house but up until now I was careful not to wear out of the house I always thought it wasnt nice to

    #817244

    cherrybim
    Participant

    “I always thought it wasnt nice to”

    It’s nice to please your husband.

    #817245

    Sam2
    Participant

    Shlishi: Learn the Dinim of Lifnei Iveir.

    #817246

    shlishi
    Member

    Sam: I have.

    #817247

    Sam2
    Participant

    Apparently not. Otherwise you would know what Lifnei Iveir actually means then.

    #817248

    aidel_maidel
    Participant

    is anyone asking a rov??

    sincerely,

    stuck in the house

    #817249

    Chacham
    Participant

    sam why is this not lifnei eiver . explain

    #817250

    Sam2
    Participant

    Is this woman walking outside going to be the only source of perfume available to him? (And yes, I am assuming that the only Issur is if he has Kavanah to smell. If he just smells it then I am assuming there is no Issur. If you disagree with that assumption then Lifnei Iveir can apply. However, I see no reason at all to assume that.)

    #817252

    Chacham
    Participant

    yes sir mr. sam. if you are telling her to put on more than you are making more available which is under the lav of lifnei eiver

    #817253

    Sam2
    Participant

    Making more available is not Lifnei Iveir. Being the only source is.

    #817254

    Dr. Seuss
    Member

    Sam: She may in fact be the only source. (Not to grant the claim that she need only be the only source to violate the lav.)

    And why do you assume he must have kavanah to be oiver?

    #817255

    Chacham
    Participant

    it is not just making it more available- it is like selling assur things for a cheaper price than anyone else, which is assur, no?

    #817256

    Chacham
    Participant

    but it might not be lifnei eiver since it won’t vadai cause the aveira i saw such a sevara in tzitz eliezer 21:14 in a very geshmake teshuva nogea if it is muttar to sell cigarettes.

    #817257

    Dr. Seuss
    Member

    The guy walking down the empty street passing her and smelling her perfume certainly was oiver a lav as a result of her lifnei eiver.

    #817258

    Sam2
    Participant

    That is a second reason. Thank you Chacham.

    Dr. Seuss: People can walk into a store and smell or buy perfume. Unless you’re in the middle of nowhere she cannot be the only source.

    #817259

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    I think you should listen to him. While your high standard of tznius is commendable, your shalom bayis comes first. And listening to him will be better for both of you. I don’t think he really needs you to put on a lot of perfume. He probably just exaggerated to get his point across. He probably just wants you to wear a normal amount so he can have his nose focus on something “kosher.”

    #817260

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    Chacham – I believe the Gemara in Avoda Zara says that halacha. Though I don’t believe it has to be ???? only ?????.

    #817261

    Dr. Seuss
    Member

    Sam: You can easily be in an office or be a guest in a home or walk down a street or in a grocery or many other places where only one woman has perfume emanating from her. Especially in frum neighborhoods.

    #817262

    Dr. Seuss
    Member

    And Sam, I don’t see a basis for your assumption about kavanah. Just like if a man saw a non-tznius women he must remove her from within his eyesight, if a man smelled a perfumed woman he must remove himself from within her smelling range. Even if he thinks he has no kavanah.

    #817263

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    Dr. Seuss-

    if a man saw a non-tznius women he must remove her from within his eyesight

    Who says? He’s just not allowed to gaze.

    #817264

    Chacham
    Participant

    sam – it is called meiver dnahar simply because men don’t have ladies with perfume in their back pocket. walking into the store to buy has no shayachos to what he smells here. there he smells the smell here he is smelling her. it is not exceptionally common to walk by women with so much perfume, so by doing so you are supplying him with this issur, making this clearly meiver dnahara. he has no way of accessing this (not the smell but the combination) by himself. the lifnei eiver is not if perfume is for sale.

    yitayningwut- i do not think the gemara is very clear that that din is lmaaseh. the earliest source i think is the peirush hamishnayos lrambam on shviis.

    #817265

    mdd
    Member

    Sam, according to you logic, women should be allowed to walk in street in bigdei pritzus, c^v. Rachmona litzlan me’data didach.

    #817266

    mdd
    Member

    Yitay, same about your svora.

    #817267

    Toi
    Participant

    sam- it is lifnei iver. it doesnt matter, lchoira, if there are more sources cuz every time you do it is a dif. cheftzah of aveirah. sis nisht yenah aveirah. the aveirah of him smelling her is a dif. aveirah then smelling source 2. i think its pretty poshut and mistaber.

    #817268

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    mdd-

    I was’t agreeing that the svara applies, I was simply giving a mareh makom to it.

    And I am not sure it does apply, because here it is worse than your classic lifnei iver. When you pass a piece of eiver min hachai to a goy or a glass of wine to a nazir, l’ma’aseh all you are doing is giving him the opportunity to sin. But here you are actually being megareh the yetzer hara within people, so I could very well hear that it would be more chamur.

    #817269

    Sam2
    Participant

    See Igros Moshe (I believe) CH”M 2:12 (maybe 2:11?) in the bottom of the first paragraph where he mentions that a woman going outside not Tznius is an Issur Asei, and if I recall correctly he doesn’t mention Lifnei Iveir.

    MDD: Even if there’s no Lifnei Iveir that doesn’t mean it’s Muttar.

    #817270

    shlishi
    Member

    Issur Asei of what?

    #1683644

    Perfume is for sure chukas hagoyim.

    #1683661

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Perfume is not chukas hagoyim, but more importantly, abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz, do you type your name in again every time you log in, or do you copy and paste?

    #1683675

    places
    Participant

    there is a medresh that perfume came down with the mon

    #1683726

    knaidlach
    Participant

    I don’t think the husband’s request comes from yiras shamayim. seems to me that he wasn’t comfortable telling her what he really wants.
    so,
    1) they have to improve their relationship that they are both comfortable to share their thoughts and feelings etc.
    2) is the husband attracted to HER? or to external things of her?

    At first, I wasn’t sure if I should write that, because it might cause friction between them. But I see the question was posted 7 1/2 years ago, so i guess this is not nogea lemaase for this couple now.

    #1683730

    knaidlach
    Participant

    does that mean that men also got it?

    #1683733

    knaidlach
    Participant

    places.
    does that mean that the men also got perfume?

    #1683782

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Many perfumes have artificial fragrances which can and do trigger migraines and other reactions in sensitive people.

    #1683810

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Some perfumes have natural fragrances which can and do trigger migraines and other reactions in sensitive people.

    #1683840

    GAON
    Participant

    Chukas Hagoy?
    Sounds like Am Haratzes The Gemara in Yoma 38 speaks about the impact of the קטורת how the aroma filled the streets of Jerusalem:
    מעולם לא יצאת כלה מבושמת מבתיהן, וכשנושאין אשה ממקום אחר מתנין עמה שלא תתבסם, שלא יאמרו ממעשה הקטורת מתבסמין, לקיים מה שנאמר והייתם נקיים מה’ ומישראל א

    #1683875

    places
    Participant

    no only the women got it they got cosmetics also

    #1684039

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Not sure what world some of these posters are living in but sales of perfume have gone way down over the past decade as fewer and fewer young women show interest in fragrances of any sort. At the outset, most colleges and workplaces have explicit policies discouraging the use of any perfumes, deodorants/body oils with strong fragrances etc. because as someone noted above, many people have strong allergic reactions. Even more so, most millennials today surveyed simply don’t feel they either want or need such enhancements and prefer very limited natural/organic cosmetics in general. This “husband” sounds like he has considerably more serious issues than olfactory tzinus concerns.

    #1684071

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Actually, people use more cosmetic items in less prosperous times and vice versa.

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