Wedding Veils: Charedi vs Hassidic vs … 👰

Home Coffeeroom Bais Medrash Minhagim Wedding Veils: Charedi vs Hassidic vs … 👰

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  • #1266493

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Do wedding veil lengths vary depending on one’s minhagim?

    I saw some photos of a charedi kallah with a shorter veil, like just below her face.

    Then a photo of a hassidic kallah whose veil went way past her shoulders.

    Did they just pick out veils that they liked or is there a tradition in the types of veils kallot wear?

    Thank you 🌹

    #1266542

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Chasidim tend to wear thicker veils, that cannot be seen thru at all. Don’t know about any difference in length.

    #1266545

    <<Winnie The Pooh, just wanted to mention that I often do the night shift and I always enjoy reading your posts>>

    #1266549

    Nechomah
    Participant

    WIP, I’m not sure LB is talking about the front covering during the chuppah (known as a deck-tuch) or the veil that goes down her back.

    Chareidim cover the face of the kallah during the chuppah with something that cannot be seen through. It is usually a beautiful piece of lace with a backing so that no one can see her face during the chuppah. It is only necessary to be as big as her face and to cover as far back as is necessary to pin it to her hair to keep it from falling off.

    The veil going down the back can be as long as one likes, for all walks of life. I have seen some that have a very long train, but usually something to the bottom of the lower back area is usual. My daughter had an extra one that was very long just to add to the pictures. She did not wear it during the rest of the chassanah. The back veil is usually made of more than one layer and non-chareidim will take one of those layers and cover the face of the kallah with that.

    #1266555

    Joseph
    Participant

    Do you get time and a half for the night shift?

    #1266556

    Joseph
    Participant

    The front veil is supposed to be non-see through. That’s the whole point of the veil.

    #1266742

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Really, 29, thanks!
    I didn’t know there was a night shift. It can get frustrating for those of us on Israel time to have to wait so long for new posts, so glad to hear it!
    I don’t know about time and a half, but I vote that you get a raise for giving out compliments.

    #1266749

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    It doesn’t seem to last all night. Apparently last night, it went until at least 2:00 am, but I think that’s unusual. And I don’t know if I’ve ever seen posts go up after 2:00 am (it’s certainly rare).

    #1266747

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Joseph- there’s non-see through and then there’s non-see through. There are veils that block others from seeing the kalla’s face, but she can still make vaguely out objects, and those that can double as black-out curtains.
    But Nechoma is right, LB is probably referring to back veils, I just assumed she meant front because that can be different based on custom.

    #1266755

    Thanks WTP, I don’t sleep well so I am often up at odd nighttime hours. I do a lot of 3 am posts, if there are any, since that is my worst sleeplessness but the rest of it varies.

    #1266785

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Some hold that it cannot be completely opaque.

    #1266839

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Would it help if I write up some really long, boring posts to induce the ZZZZs?

    #1266847

    Joseph
    Participant

    Unfortunately I’ve seen veils where even the public could see the Kallah’s face.

    #1266846

    a mamin
    Participant

    It is not true that everyone has the custom of whatever length you want for a back veil.
    In the Ultra Chasidic Rabbinical families they do not wear a back veil at all.

    #1266874

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Wow. I actually meant the front veil that covers the face.

    There’s a back veil? That’s news to me. I thought that it kind of covers the head so it falls in the front. I didn’t realize that there are two sides.

    Thanks!

    #1267300

    Nechomah
    Participant

    All veils hook on the back. in the hair. I think I’ve seen even chassidish kallahs from rabbinish families wearing regular veils on the back. There is sometimes a style of not wearing a veil, but I’m not think it’s very common. This is worn during the whole chassanah.

    The covering on the front is only from the badeken (covering the kallah – if you look carefully you can see the work “dek” in the middle, which is where the work “dek-tuch” that I mentioned earlier comes from) during the chuppah. There are opinions that once the chosson has identified her as the correct kallah and has covered her face, it is not appropriate for other men to look upon the face of the kallah during the chuppah. Nobody needs that piece of material to go down much past the chin. That’s why, LB, you saw the kind only to the chin. That’s not the “veil” that everybody thinks of. It is just supposed to cover her face. If it’s the really thick kind (like I had at my chuppah and my daughter had) you really cannot see out, but it is good to at least be able to look down underneath it and see the ground where you are going to step.

    Unfortunately, amongst the more modern, they simply take the veil piece from the back and cover the face. It is very transparent and everybody can see her. I can actually tell you that it is nice to have that bit of privacy to be daavening during the chuppah. Less chance of looking around at who made it to the chuppah, etc. That would be very distracting, IMHO.

    #1267401

    Joseph
    Participant

    Necomah, with that explanation I was thinking you were going to go on recommending the Choson also get a badeken. 😆

    #1267407

    Gateshead Rov
    Participant

    The length of the veil depends on the length of the kalla ‘s face. The longer the face, the longer veil she needs.

    #1267406

    Nechomah
    Participant

    Really, Joseph? I can’t imagine why? Maybe all of those other men at the chuppah should be covering their faces? Oh, I guess they’d have to open their eyes in order for the eidim to watch the chosson put the ring on her finger (does he need his eyes open for that?) and to read the kesubah, LOL!!! I hope you meant it in the sense of humor that I responded to you with.

    #1267426

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Wow thank you Nechomah!!! 🙂 Now I have a better understanding of what it means to have a photographer and videographer at the wedding. It could be the first time the kallah sees what it was like. The chasson too.

    Thank you ~ it’s so sweet to get a glimpse into what it feels like to be up there!

    #1267433

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Which means they can legally witness the wedding.

    #1267447

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I don’t think that’s true because I have never seen a veil that precisely covers the face and nothing else.

    #1267550

    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    Hi, Nechoma, I always used to think that ‘badeken’ and ‘dek-tuch’ were related to ‘deck’ as in ‘cover’ or ‘decorate’. But then somehow I realized that ‘badeken’ is linguistically related to ‘bodek’ meaning ‘check’, because the groom checks that he is getting the bride he expected, unlike when Yaakov Avinu was tricked into marrying Leah when he wanted to marry Rachel.

    #1267551

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Also, that would mean measuring the kallah’s face.

    #1267570

    Joseph
    Participant

    I noticed some goyim put a veil on their bride. When did they start imitating the Jewish concept of veiling the bride?

    #1267649

    Meno
    Participant

    Also rings

    #1267792

    Joseph
    Participant

    And brides dressed in white. The gentiles took a lot from us.

    Hey, they even adopted our Bible (after corrupting it, like they do everything else.)

    #1267812

    Meno
    Participant

    Joseph, did you attend a goyish wedding?

    #1267823

    golfer
    Participant

    The veil that covers the face of the Kallah is one of the Minhagim of a Jewish wedding, and is placed (in most cases by the chassan) over the bride’s face at the Badeken (a Yiddish word meaning covering) that takes place before the Chuppah.
    The veil in back is usually attached to the headpiece the bride wears, and is part of the pretty bridal outfit that is worn in Western countries, like the white bridal gown and the wedding bouquet. They seem to be going a bit out of fashion, but there’s no connection between the “back veil” and Jewish custom.

    #1267826

    Joseph
    Participant

    I read about them. Never been to any.

    #1267829

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    White fabric became available to common folk relatively recently.

    #1267831

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    The practice of wearing a veil only to the wedding is also fairly new. They used to be worn all the time.

    #1267834

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    I can’t answer for Joseph, but as a Justice of the Peace I have performed marriages for non-Jews. No intermarriages, no mention of religion or deity.

    #1267840

    a mamin
    Participant

    FYI the white gown comes from the goyim and that is why some Hasidic sects do not wear totally white gowns.
    They line it with a color.

    #1267848

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    The whole concept of a wedding dress for most of history has been inaccessible to regular people. Think about it: a whole dress, fancier than a typical dress, designed to be worn only once? This is a ridiculous luxury.

    #1267842

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Why wear white gowns at all then? So impractical, so unflattering.

    #1267859

    Joseph
    Participant

    The goyim took white from the Yidden.

    It started in the Western world with Queen Victoria’s wedding.

    #1267860

    golfer
    Participant

    That’s interesting CTL.
    I understand there’s no mention of religion; however, if you yourself happen to be aware that one party is Jewish and one is not, are there Halachic ramifications? Obviously you are not validating Kiddushin, (and the whole concept of Kiddushin cannot apply) but are you allowed to knowingly perform a civil service to unite a Jew and a non-Jew in a legal marriage?

    #1267861

    Joseph
    Participant

    CTL, you decline to perform intermarriages when requested as a Justice of Peace? You’re able to always ascertain the parties status as halachic Jews?

    #1267862

    Joseph
    Participant

    a mamin, why don’t they wear an all blue bridal dress? Or all of mostly non-white. Why do they wear a mostly white dress?

    #1267865

    Nechomah
    Participant

    I don’t think it is necessary to measure the face. The veils are usually a standard size, a large square or perhaps round piece of material. You just pin it on top in the right place for it to hang down long enough to cover the kallah’s face.

    #1267863

    Nechomah
    Participant

    A mamin, I thought the minhag of wearing white was because the day of the chassanah is like Yom Kippur for the chosson and kallah, and just like a man wears a white kittel on Yom Kippur as a symbol of purity, since all of their aveiros are being forgiven that day, the kallah wears a white dress. I do not know what the chassidim do. I do know that a lot of kallahs are not wearing pure white but rather cream these days.

    As far as luxury of a kallah dress, most people I know take one from a gemach, pay a minimal fee for upkeep and return it in the days after the chassanah for the next girl to use it. At least 3 or 4 girls can wear a single dress (obviously not all at one time) depending on how many alterations are needed for each girl.

    I was told that the dresses are fancy so that a poor kallah can have “jewelry” on her dress like a “rich” kallah. Of course we all know that girls still wear their jewelry to the chassanah, so somewhere this idea got diluted or forgotten. I’m just relaying what I heard many years ago.

    #1267894

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Leah wore a veil/had her face covered at her wedding to Yaakov (which is why Yaakov needed simanim to make sure she was really Rochel…) Rivka covered her face the first time she met Yitzchok. So the “minhag” predates even Judaism!

    #1267899

    Joseph
    Participant

    Yitzchok, Leah, Yaakov and Rochel define Judaism.

    #1267912

    🐵 ⌨ Gamanit
    Participant

    RebYidd23- I doubt the veils women used to wear on a regular basis were completely nontransparent. I’d assume the women were looking at where they were going and not bumping into everything.

    At my wedding if I hadn’t had my mother and mother-in-law guiding me I would have bumped into everything. As it was I tripped over a step because they forgot to warn me it was there. I was pretty much completely blinded.

    I didn’t see my chassan and if there is no way he saw me. If they would have switched me with another girl there is no way he would know. They could have switched out my chassan too technically but then the crowd would have noticed. I was completely disoriented by not seeing anything (due to the veil) and barely had a clue what was going on.

    What really upset me was when I was looking through old black and white photos of my great-grandparents weddings back in Europe I saw that the veil was somewhat see-through. I wish I could have had one like that.

    #1267979

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Non-Jewish women used to wear the same type of veil they wore to their wedding every time they went outside.

    #1267986

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    No, Matan Torah does. Before then there was no Am Yisroel and Avos kept the mitzvos from intuition, not because they were commanded. And Rochel/Leah and Rivka, who did the face covering, were raised and educated by Lavan/Besuel who definitely did not define Judaism. It seems that it was the custom in Charan; that’s how Lavan intended to trick Yaakov when he agreed to give him Rochel.

    #1267999

    Joseph
    Participant

    The first historically recorded concept of a woman veiling herself is in Bereishus, with Rivka.

    #1268319

    golfer
    Participant

    It’s interesting how we pick up Minhagim of the wedding from the homes of Lavan and Besuel.
    What I take note of is that the words of the beautiful Bracha traditionally given to the Kallah at the badeken, are the words of Lavan to his sister Rivka!

    (Note to Lightb and CTL, –
    In the new improved CR format you can easily miss another poster leaving you a comment, unless you bother to scroll back up the thread. So this is to inform you Lightb-, I left you a reply, and CTL- I asked you a question.)

    #1268389

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    A white gown is a way of showing off that you can afford a dress that you will wear only once. Dresses made to be worn more than once can’t be white because they’d get ruined on the third day.

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