February 10, 2009 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #638392
Why is a pizza store inappropriate? If anything, not only do I find a lounge inappropriate, I think it’s assur. A lounge has treif food, people dancing, drinking, etc. It is not the place for a Jew to spend his time, let alone when meeting a potential mate. If you still MUST do the lounge bit, go to the airport. It’s more fun, and it’s much cheaper.February 10, 2009 8:05 pm at 8:05 pm #638393gavra_at_workParticipant
If you wear sackcloth due to availus on Yerushalayim, your date may feel (however incorrectly, as you really want to show your availus) you are a little over the top.
Nix the lobby, get some food. Third date means dinner.February 10, 2009 8:41 pm at 8:41 pm #638394
with make-up, why do so many girls over do it???(like moish was sayin!!!)February 10, 2009 9:00 pm at 9:00 pm #638395
Asdfghjkl: they THINK it makes them prettier (which it doesn’t!!!) I hate all that eye liner!!! A little makeup is pretty and u have to no how to do it rightFebruary 10, 2009 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #638396
asdf, cover up for flaws but i’m with belev echad on this. I’m dark so I go naturally stunning 😉February 10, 2009 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #638397
asdfg- the question of the century. I think you can see a girl’s level of confidence based on the amount (of layers) of makeup she’s wearing. (i’m not talking about cover-up or a little color or whatever)February 10, 2009 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #638399
Hey everyone I’m here early today!
myshadow- you took the words straight outta my mouth
areivim- I’m going to have to disagree- some just need to compensate on lack of good looks (makeup can go a long way)February 10, 2009 10:26 pm at 10:26 pm #638400
beacon: welcome!!! i’ve been here since 1:30ish today!!!February 10, 2009 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #638401
Thanks I love being welcomed! You skipped work today or something?February 10, 2009 10:33 pm at 10:33 pm #638402
hey my post didn’t make it! oh well.February 10, 2009 10:34 pm at 10:34 pm #638403
Areivem: some girls just think tons of make up is prettyFebruary 10, 2009 10:41 pm at 10:41 pm #638404SJSinNYCMember
myshadow, I’m naturally pale and also stunning 🙂 Actually, I don’t wear makeup. I’ve been blessed to not need it (not saying I am beautiful, but I dont need makeup).February 10, 2009 10:50 pm at 10:50 pm #638405
areivimzehlazeh: i’m with ya buddy!!!February 10, 2009 10:56 pm at 10:56 pm #638406BasYisroel2Participant
Some people need makeup.however with too much makeup i find people tend to look like dracula!February 10, 2009 11:22 pm at 11:22 pm #638407
Belev Echad, don’t you all look like raccoons when you wear all that makeup junk on your eyes?
lol, moish01, i totally agree!February 11, 2009 2:03 am at 2:03 am #638408mosheroseMember
If you have such questions, you should consult Daas Torah. That’s what its for.February 11, 2009 2:14 am at 2:14 am #638409
joseph sorry bout the expression, is dress to attract any better?
myshadow, No. Highly inappropriate to “dress to attract.”February 11, 2009 4:32 am at 4:32 am #638410flatbush27Member
thank you joseph.
myshadow: that is not what dates are doing the first 5 minutes. these days people know so much about the other one before that they know before the date if the other one is heavy, skinny, tall, short etc etc.February 11, 2009 2:25 pm at 2:25 pm #638411
They may not be doing that the first 5 minutes, but they most certainly are doing that in the first 5 seconds.
On paper being tall, skinny and whatnot is not the same as looking at the person and seeing if you are physically attracted to that person.February 11, 2009 4:28 pm at 4:28 pm #638412
joseph, sorry i tried.
flatbush, uh you never had the experience that the guy was totally different from what you were told? ex: true experience I was told a guy was tall, dark…seriously and he was a redheadFebruary 11, 2009 10:23 pm at 10:23 pm #638413
I agree yet disagree.
Girls are supposed to look attractive, no need to wear a sack etc. Yet tzniyus definitely comes first ALWAYS. There is no contradiction between dressing nicely and being tzniyusdig (and I’m not talking about elbows & knees- tzniyus requires a lot of sensitivity as well).
Another point: dating IS for “tachlis”, but does not have to be dry. And ‘not being dry’ does not have to jump to going rowing, ice-skating and the like, where there is a 95% chance of an inappropriate situation occurring. Why can’t you enjoy the PERSON and not just the place? Are your best memories of/with a friend only when you went somewhere fun together? Creating good memories and a good time has to do with attitude, personality etc.
I have superb memories of dates- had a really good time- and never went anywhere “exciting”.February 11, 2009 11:33 pm at 11:33 pm #638414
areivimzehlazeh: good pts, both of em. its definitely the ppl ur w/, not what ur doing that makes it enjoyable. but i can c how it cud b a lot less boring if ur also at an interesting place instead of the same old thing.
wow vry good job mod(s)! who am i thanking here?
now if only s/o else wud also b posting….February 11, 2009 11:40 pm at 11:40 pm #638415flatbush27Member
yossie: if you read the earlier posts i was qouting myrandom by saying 5 minutes.
myshadow: of course that happens from time to time but generally people know.February 12, 2009 12:49 am at 12:49 am #638416
myshadow, the point is to dress tzniusdik, not “to attract.” (Like areivim pointed out as well.)February 12, 2009 2:04 am at 2:04 am #638417
flatbush27, the first date is never deep so it’s always external to a point. Do you want to kill the person or can you stand looking at this person?
It’s a common myth and also a destructive one that really helps the crisis continue that physical attraction should play no part in a shidduch. I have heard, but I forgot from who but it makes sense, if you are not physically attracted to the person, there is no point in going out again. No matter how much you develop an intellectual relationship or if your hashkafos match, as long as you can’t stand looking at the person, there is no point.February 12, 2009 3:06 am at 3:06 am #638418
You can dress tznius and look great as well.February 12, 2009 3:22 am at 3:22 am #638419
Physical attraction plays a part, in the sense that one shouldn’t be repulsed by their spouse. But it is way down on the list of priorities to look for.February 12, 2009 3:54 am at 3:54 am #638420dunnoMember
Sorry Joseph, it’s at different points on everyone’s list. For some people looks are extremely important. I don’t see anything wrong with that.February 12, 2009 4:02 am at 4:02 am #638421
It is wrong to be “extremely” important. It should be far after bas talmid chochom, middos, etc. etc.February 12, 2009 4:59 am at 4:59 am #638423
joseph: did u just say “bas talmid chochom”??? what if s/o is a baal teshuva? if s/o has grown beyond how theyre parents brought them up is that a problem?February 12, 2009 12:47 pm at 12:47 pm #638424
A Bas Talmid Chochom, say Chazal, is one of the attributes to seek when looking for a wife. [Gemara in Pesachim (49a)]February 12, 2009 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #638425
fine so what are the girls who are fine ppl but not born to a talmid chacham supposed to do? i dont understand this at all.
& what exactly defines talmid chacham? …if their father is working, is that a problem?February 12, 2009 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #638426gavra_at_workParticipant
Agree with Joseph (Bas Talmid Chacham = +), we discussed this earlier.February 12, 2009 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #638427
joseph, aveirim, I definately did NOT say that you shouldn’t be tzniusdik!!! Dressing attractive does not mean at all not being tznius!! I’m with you a 100% on that!!
dunno, agree w/ you!
aveirim, I’m also against that I never chapped the rowing or the ice skating. There are strong possibilities of not being shomer negiah and I say stay away from the whole thing.
joseph, don’t go there a lot of ppl on this site might end up offendedFebruary 12, 2009 2:41 pm at 2:41 pm #638428
Actually, physical attraction has to be number 1 on the list. Without that, there is ZERO point in going forward. If you doubt me, you can ask any Rav, therapist, Chosson/Kallah teacher, someone married for a long time, etc.February 12, 2009 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #638429SJSinNYCMember
Physical attraction plays a part, in the sense that one shouldn’t be repulsed by their spouse.
Joseph, one has to be attracted to one’s spouse too. Its not enough just not to be repulsed.
That being said, I find that the more you know and like a person, the better looking they become. My sister once dated a guy that was really ugly – there was something that looked squashed about him. It didnt work out between them, but my sister set him up with her friend and they got married. After getting to know him a bit better, he no longer seemed ugly – he was a decent looking, nice guy. Turns out everyone in my family had the same reaction.
I wouldnt reject someone based on looks alone of the first date, unless they utterly repulse you. But it is part of the equation. Only you know how important (some people are only looking for trophy wives for example, so to them its more important). Only YOU are living in your marriage.February 12, 2009 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #638431tzippiMember
Open book, sorry I can’t quote exactly, but I have heard that in our times, being a BY graduate (or similarly well educated) fulfills that qualification.February 12, 2009 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #638432
Looks can definately grow on you, but you have to be attracted to him/her to even go on another dateFebruary 12, 2009 9:44 pm at 9:44 pm #638433
1- a family member of mine, whom we all thought had the best taste in the fam, married someone quite ugly. We will never understand if it was love that blinded or amazing middos to see past the external (and eventually it obviously didn’t get in the way)
2- my friend married someone very unattractive. The looks really got in the way while dating, and somewhat faded when they got engaged. It finally disappeared completely.
I am not saying that this is for everyone. But I think it’s a pretty high madreigahFebruary 12, 2009 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #638434
can’t imagine ever wanting to want to reach that madreiga, as you call it.February 12, 2009 10:08 pm at 10:08 pm #638435
you don’t think it’s a high madreigah?February 12, 2009 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #638436
maybe it is. but it seems so unnatural and actually not normal.
and it’s WAY out of my league, that’s for sure.February 12, 2009 10:24 pm at 10:24 pm #638437
that’s what very high madreigas are all about… out of your league. That’s why we don’t look at the end goal, but rather at the next step- closest to us- that needs to be taken. You may or may never reach that top point, but we gotta try. That’s the whole pointFebruary 12, 2009 10:32 pm at 10:32 pm #638438
you’re funny. i think that comes way after bigger things i should be improving. never mind looking at girls. that would be a mitzva for me.February 12, 2009 10:38 pm at 10:38 pm #638439
who said you should work on seeing past the external now? my story was for the general public, to internalize and apply to their own level however they see fit. I’m certainly not on that level, but it is inspiring & makes me want to be better than I am right nowFebruary 12, 2009 10:49 pm at 10:49 pm #638440
tzippi: thanks, that sounds more reasonable, as it is at least something the person themself can controlFebruary 12, 2009 11:22 pm at 11:22 pm #638441
Moish: oh Gosh….February 13, 2009 2:16 am at 2:16 am #638442
yossiea, if “physical attraction has to be number 1 on the list” you’ll end up with a beautiful monster.February 13, 2009 4:45 am at 4:45 am #638443
nice pshat ames.February 13, 2009 4:54 am at 4:54 am #638444qwertyuiopMember
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