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Is weed bad? is it a drug like known bad drugs or is it a good/healthy drug? Is weed bad for yidishkeit? is it kosher? Does it need a hechsher? Why did hashem create this plant? Does it have a place in Jewish history? Do u know someone that uses it? Is ther a point when the person has to much/overdose? Is it being seen more in our frum world? Etc… So basically what do u think/do about it?
Is weed bad?
Depends how, when, and by whom it is used.
is it a drug like known bad drugs or is it a good/healthy drug?
It is a plant
Is weed bad for yidishkeit?
Yes
is it kosher?
Yes
Does it need a hechsher?
Yes
Why did hashem create this plant?
For the same reason he created everything else in the world, for us to decide whether to use it for good or for evil.
Does it have a place in Jewish history?
Yes, it was used in the Ketores
Do u know someone that uses it?
I probably do but I don’t know which of my friends/acquaintances it is
Is ther a point when the person has to much/overdose?
Yes
Is it being seen more in our frum world?
Not by me
Etc… So basically what do u think/do about it?
No comment
It only needs a hechsher if it’s prepared. If you’re taking the raw plant, it doesn’t need a hechsher.
You can’t really overdose on marijuana. Can you have taken “too much”? Of course. It gets you high. Don’t drive, operate machinery, etc. Treat it as if you’ve been drinking.
Personally, I think it should be legal. It mostly has the same effects as alcohol. I think the government should legalize it and tax it heavily. That gets rid of the dealers, and generates income for the government.
Is weed bad?
— I can’t tell weeds from flowers. My mother thinks I’m faking.
Is it a drug like known bad drugs or is it a good/healthy drug?
— Yes.
Is weed bad for yidishkeit?
— You should not daven, pasken, or shecht while under its influence.
Is it kosher?
— Yes
Does it need a hechsher?
— No
Why did hashem create this plant?
— Why did Hashem create toadstools?
Does it have a place in Jewish history?
— There are Jews who smoke(d) it.
Do u know someone that uses it?
— You probably do, you just don’t know it.
Is ther a point when the person has to much/overdose?
— There is never a point when someone has to overdose.
Is it being seen more in our frum world?
— I’m not seen in your frum world myself so I can’t answer that
Etc… So basically what do u think/do about it?
WHAT?! YOU DON’T KNOW ALREADY??!!! 😉
mod 42: Which plant in the ketores do you think was cannabis?
This is a very important question. Yes, marijuana is bad — very bad. There are many reasons.
1) It causes mental health problems. Most commonly, users experience what they call “paranoia” — basically irrational anxiety. Some users have panic attacks, which can last even after you stop smoking pot (and panic attacks are really no fun — you feel like you’re going to die). The thing is, a large proportion of the population has some level of susceptibility to anxiety problems, but many people never develop them. Weed, for some reason, seems to bring it to the surface. Since tranquility of mind is such an important value, both in secular and religious terms, no one should ever use marijuana (unless as a last resort and prescribed by a doctor for a pain condition, but I wouldn’t use it even then.)
2) This may sound surprising, but there is very strong statistical evidence that using cannabis increases the risk of schitzophrenia and psychosis. These disorders are caused by an interplay between genetics and environment. For example, when one identical twin has schitzophrenia, the other twin only has about a 50% chance of coming down with it, even though they have all the same genes. So environment matters. And smoking marijuana is one thing that triggers it. Schitzophrenia is a relatively common but horribly devastating disease. It really ruins people’s lives. Another reason to stay away from marijuana at all costs.
3) Pot can also cause burnout. I have personally known people who after using a lot of weed kind of lose their minds. They don’t make much sense, and don’t have much intelligence anymore. I taught a class last year (most of the class were secular non-Jews), and I asked them if anyone knew someone who was burnt out. Many said they did. It’s very sad.
4) It clouds your mind and lowers your memory and intelligence. I know many pot smokers who stopped, and felt themselves gradually coming out of a fog, their mind becoming clearer and clearer.
5) Pot users tend to hang out with people who do other drugs, which are just as or even more dangerous. I know many people who have messed up their lives and given themselves lifelong anxiety and even vision problems through using psychedelic drugs. Nowadays tons of people take opiate pills and end up on heroin.
There is a dispute about whether it was part of the ketores. R’ Aryeh Kaplan says yes, but others argue no. I’ve never seen any evidence that any Jews smoked marijuana historically. It has certainly never been used by any great Torah scholars or tzaddikim.
Why did Hashem make this plant? Well He didn’t make it with lots of THC in it. The original plant only has a bit. It’s very useful for making fabrics. People bred it to increase the THC. Why did Hashem create THC? Perhaps because it would have some medical use someday. Perhaps also as a nisayon?
Can you overdose? Not technically (as with heroin), but in practice, it happens all the time that people smoke so much they get really out of it and paranoid — a very unpleasant experience that most pot smokers will admit to having experienced. (That said, smoking just a little can trigger anxiety attacks too.) If you ingest it instead of smoking, you can also get way too much THC and feel like you’re going out of your mind. It’s harder to regulate the dose that way, but people eat pot brownies anyway.
Synthetic cannabis is even worse — don’t even think about it. People are jumping out of buildings and killing people and such because it makes them go nuts. If you hear about some drug, synthetic or not, that’s legal, don’t go order it just to see what it’s like — I know people who have suffered greatly from this mistake.
All the examples I’m using are from secular people I’ve known, not frum yidden. In Israel I’ve heard there’s some chassidic BTs who smoke pot, but the rabbis denounce them and I gather they’re an embarrassment.
Some people want to use pot because they crave some kind of altered consciousness or experience. Some even want to experience spirituality through it. Don’t count on it. Jews have relied on prayer, meditation, fasting, and a little alcohol to bring on altered states. That’s all we need. If you’re interested in expanding your consciousness, rely on our historical methods, not drugs that can mess up your mind.
ywmoderator y hashem created it? so we can choose to use it 4 good or evil?? what good is there in drugs?
Question #1: Is it permitted to ask moderator a question?
If Yes, then-
Question #2: Which of the names of spices in Ketores “recipe” means cannabis?
Rav Moshe says it’s Assur.
jr123, you’re kidding, right? Ever been sick?
hashem never creates BAD things
Otherwise you can ask why he invented Roaches , Mosquitoes , Poison Ivy and Earthquakes
Sam2 sources please?
I just realized my previous comment probably wasn’t approved because it was too long — sorry about that. Here’s the short and sweet version:
Yes, cannabis is bad — very bad.
1) It causes mental health problems, including paranoia, anxiety attacks, and more general anxiety problems. This is extremely common, and experienced by most users at one time or another. Ask any user about paranoia, and they will know what you are talking about.
2) There is very strong statistical evidence that using cannabis increases the risk of schitzophrenia and psychosis. These disorders are caused by an interplay between genetics and environment. For example, when one identical twin has schitzophrenia, the other twin only has about a 50% chance of coming down with it, even though they have all the same genes. So environment matters. And smoking marijuana is one thing that triggers it.
3) Pot can also cause burnout. I have personally known people who after using a lot of weed kind of lose their minds. They don’t make much sense, and don’t have much intelligence anymore. I taught a class last year (most of the class were secular non-Jews), and I asked them if anyone knew someone who was burnt out. Many said they did. It’s very sad.
4) It clouds your mind and lowers your memory and intelligence.
There is a dispute about whether it was part of the ketores. R’ Aryeh Kaplan says yes, but others argue no. I’ve never seen any evidence that any Jews smoked marijuana historically. It has certainly never been used by any great Torah scholars or tzaddikim.
“Which of the names of spices in Ketores “recipe” means cannabis?”
Kaneh Basom
“Is weed bad for yidishkeit?”
Depends how you use it.
“Do u know someone that uses it?”
Everyone knows many people who do it. You know them too.
“Is ther a point when the person has to much/overdose?”
It’s not like alcohol where the body gets poisoned. There’s a point when a person does it too often but it is not possible to actually overdose. There is a level of a high that cannot be surpassed, no matter how much marijuana is consumed. So no you can’t overdose.
“So basically what do u think/do about it?”
It takes you away from this world. If you’re happy, don’t try it.
It’s not dangerous, just stupid. If you have a brain and you care, you hopefully have better things to do with your life. There are health benefits though which you can ask your doctor about.
I don’t have an opinion over whether it should be legal.
But, I do have an opinion that it should not be “half legal”. If it is illegal, we should prosecute the consumers, since that is what creates the demand and hence the supply chain. It is retarded to go after the sellers and let the users off.
MZ: I’ve been thinking. If you have Bar Ilan look up the word “Chashish” in the Igros (it was spelled Malei with a Yud). Rav Moshe gives 4 reasons to Assur, if I recall correctly.
While I think cannabis is very bad, much worse than alcohol for the average person (see my comment above), and no one should even try it, I actually think it should be 100% legal. It’s insane and counter-productive to lock up hundreds of thousands of people just because they’re doing something stupid to their minds/bodies. If drug users are acting crazy and hurting people because of an addiction, then either prosecute them for real crimes they commit, or involuntarily commit them to treatment centers in extreme cases.
Another thing to consider: Some people want to use pot because they crave some kind of altered consciousness or experience. Some even want to experience spirituality through it. Don’t count on it. Jews have relied on prayer, meditation, fasting, and a little alcohol for these purposes. That’s all we need. If you’re interested in “expanding your consciousness,” rely on our historical methods, not drugs that can mess up your mind and give you mental health problems.
I find threads on this subject entertaining. Many try to address the subject, but few can speak from knowledge, training, or experience. I can’t get worse than that, so here’s my shot at it.
Hashem created poison ivy. To date, there is no one with any clue what benefits it has. We finally watched the pharmaceitucal industry take botulism toxin and render it useful as Botox, a medication. One day, we might see more than a drug, Marinol, produced from marijuana. Till then, it should be illegal, its users sentenced to treatment, and its dealers imprisoned.
The long term risks from MJ are frightening. Study the science a little. Some earlier commenters mentioned the effect of turning stupid. True. How about all sorts of endocrine problems (hormonal disruption)? Of course, MJ can ruin the years in which a human being is doing most of their social and intellectual growth. No wonder some countries like Japan, where MJ users are eliminated, produce far more than United States.
I’m not familiar with Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan’s writings on this. But no one can proclaim that Ketores included Kinai Bosem (assumed to be the origin of the term cannabis). The posuk never mentions this in the ingredients of the Ketores. It is mentioned as an ingredient in the Shemen Hamishcho, which was used for annointing. It was not burned, and no one absorbed its smoke. This myth is one of the oldest in the Jewish addiction discussions, and it is baffling that the blind belief in this persists.
yytz – You clearly have no first hand experience of Marijuana smokers. Very few actually get paranoid. The ones that do, don’t keep smoking. If they do they’re idiots. Most continuous users experience very few negative effects. Interestingly, Alcohol is legal. Many users clearly act in a way that shows that they feel anxious and paranoid, but only they’re aggressive and violent too. Many people don’t experience this from Alcohol, but because it’s legal and socially accepted, many people continue to drink regularly. They may be better off smoking pot, or just reading and exercising perhaps.
No serious studies have come back with evidence to substantiate belief that using Marijuana causes any mental health problems. Obviously cannabinoids can have negative effects on people with mental health, but any chemical can. Also, many people with mental health issues, report that marijuana helps them.
Funnily enough, Marijuana, like any other plant or synthesised substance containing chemicals, can effect different people differently. So as far as legalisation is concerned, people should have the choice.
This is a controversial idea to amuse and I’m not sure how solid it is. I once heard that the Baal Shem Tov smoked a pipe before Davening every day. Did they have Tobacco in the Ukraine at that time? I also heard a story about a Yid that had been wrongfully prosecuted. The story goes, the BESHT smoked his pipe till everyone fell asleep and he freed the Yid.
Thoughts???
Personally, I’ve noticed that the only people who think there are positive mental effects of pot are those people that are currently ingesting it. People who are drunk also think they are talking complete sense at the time…
The history (or lack)of marijuana in the Jewish world is not so important. What is important is its effects today. Today like alcoholism, marijuana use is primarily a form of escapism and I challenge anyone who is currently ingesting it, to try going 3 months without it and tell me I’m wrong.
I am not the type of person who gets upset at all the 13 year olds falling over drunk on Purim. I think its a mitzvah and more power to their parents for looking past societal conventions in favor of Halacha. But Purim is the exception to the rule like chagavim are exceptions to not eating bugs.
fromoutsidethebox:
Please meet some addiction professionals and get some educated experience. I did, and your pronouncements are way off.
Paranoia is just one of the mental side effects from MJ. Some get this one, others get any of several other effects. Varies per person. What is universal is that it is seriously mind altering. While I would like a whole lot more Torah knowledge that I have, I’m otherwise happy with my mental state, and am opposed to anything that will interfere with it. Any such effect is a negative experience for me, and I resist it. Not so for the abuser of a drug (including MJ). The experience of a negative side effect does not deter one from repeating the use. Besides, those with other issues may find the escape into an altered state of mind inviting. And that is not a good situation.
As far as the studies on the psychiatric problems resulting from MJ. they are extensive. Check this out on websites like NIDA (National Institute on Drug Abuse). These studies are not publicized by our liberal media that considers the ills of MJ as benign, just as they so with other ills of society (vehamaivin yovin).
Yes, they had tobacco in Ukraine during the ties of the B”esht. There were many tzaddikim who smoked with all sorts of kavanos. We cannot judge them from our vantage point, since we now have the information about the dangers of smoking which were unknown at those times.
The plant is a good plant. You can make strong ropes out of it. Smoking it is bad, but it’s bad to smoke anything.
The Little I Know – The Baal Shem haKadosh was said to be able to send his neshama to the olam ha’atzilut and back at will. I highly doubt he wouldn’t have been aware of any negative effects of smoking simply because the scientists of the time were ignorant of it. It could very well be that because he was truly smoking l’shem shamayim and not just for his physical pleasure, it wasn’t mazik him. There was a story of Rebbe Nachman that he used to smoke his pipe with certain kavanot in order to achieve the spiritual aspects of the ketoret in lieu of having an actual Beit HaMikdash so I would have to assume his great grandfather the Besht was doing so as well.
In more recent times there were tzaddikim like Rav Kaduri who was a very heavy smoker but lived past 100. He once asked one of his students to pick him up a pack of his brand of cigarettes (I forget which ones he particularly smoked) but the student brought back another brand claiming the one he requested had run out at the store. Rav Kaduri refused to smoke them and told him something to the effect of, “It doesn’t make a difference for you which brand it is because when you smoke you’re simply having a cigarette. It makes a difference for me because when I’m smoking I’m doing something much higher.” That wasn’t his quote word for word but that’s the gist of the story. So obviously he had secret spiritual intentions when he smoked and I’m not sure, but it could be possible that his long life shows that the physical effects of smoking didn’t hurt his body because of that. Just a thought. Additionally – the tobacco the Baal Shem Tov was smoking (I’m pretty sure I’ve heard it b’ferush that it was tobacco and not weed or anything else) was probably a lot less dangerous for your health than is the tobacco in modern day cigarettes as these days they add in a tons of nasty extra chemicals (including an ingredient from rat poison!)
Rebyid even salmon?
Use a vape.
They want to make it legal to eat people?
Pot is never a good thing. It’s a gateway drug, it lowers ambition and reduces inhbitions. I’m a proponent of doing whatever is possible to keep dope away from our children and keep the streets clean.
Yes. Even salmon. Salmon should be baked.
Rebdoniel- How can you say that it is never good? Some of my most creative and enlightening moments have been under this plants’ influence.
“Did they have Tobacco in the Ukraine at that time?”
I think someone mentioned it, but yes, they did- tobacco came to Europe in around 1528, a good 175 years before the Baal Shem Tov was born.
I think it’s dangerous but (should be) legal, like tobacco. It’s not LSD or cocaine, but it’s pretty risky and potentially harmful, even while at the same time having medicinal properties (more than you can say for tobacco to the best of my knowledge…).
Okay, looking over the previous posts, I essentially agree with yytz.
The Orthodox Jewish community is listed in my psych textbook as a community with one of the lowest rates of drug use. Let’s please keep it that way.
We need to stop classifying this naturally occurring plant species as a drug.
Amphetamines, processed cocaine, processed opioids. These are drugs.
I honestly believe that it makes u smarter or at least let’s u use more of ur brain nd be a lot more creative.is it bad? “
I honestly believe that people who smoke dope only THINK it makes them smarter and more creative, because that’s what drugs do – they alter one’s perception of reality. In my college days, I was acquainted with someone who smoked pot regularly. He once showed me a “brilliant” article that he wrote while under the influence. It was the biggest piece of garbage I have ever seen; one rambling disconnected sentence after another. He was still a little high when he showed it to me and could not even explain to me the intention of this great piece of literary achievement. We were in the same class, so after that semester I did not see him again, but I can tell you for a fact that he thought he was more creative, smart, and productive while doing weed. He was not.
Maybe there ARE exceptions to this, just as there are people with a high tolerance for alcohol. But Hashem should spare us all from being on the same road being driven by people who think they are perfectly ok or even BETTER than ok while under the influence of this or any other drug. I am opposed to the legalization. I am in favor of decriminalization, however, because I think our resources can be better spent going after real criminals, unless someone commits a crime or causes an accident while doing dope. And I am totally in favor of legal medical marijuana use for people with glaucoma or undergoing chemo.
It definitely does not make one smarter. Nothing can make a person smarter, however a person does have the ability to gain knowledge. THC gives me the ability to see things from a different perspective. In that sense, it makes me understand things in different ways that I would not have otherwise, hence I gain knowledge.
The biggest fraud out there is “medical cannabis.” If AIDS/immunosuppressed people can take the “drug” and handle it properly, how is it that a perfectly healthy person can not?
The CHOICE to use Cannabis should be legal for all.
People should have the freedom to make bad choices as long as they don’t affect others. Since tobacco is allowed, other smoking should be equally allowed.
Whatever you may say about Marijuana, the facts are that Alcohol is a whole lot more dangerous. Alcohol is much more addictive, and is more damaging to the mind and body of those that use it then Marijuana. There are countless deaths every year that are caused directly by alcohol while there are non caused by weed.
It is ridiculous that Alcohol is legal while Marijuana is not.
Experience has shown that banning alcohol was not worth it, and that instead of spending billions on enforcing laws that the public don’t want the government can actually make money by taxing the stuff. Why this lesson is not applied to marijuana is beyond me
Alcohol is much easier to produce, making it very difficult or perhaps impossible to successfully eliminate it.
While alcohol is naturally occurring, distilled or brewed alcohol, which is what is actually consumed, needs to be manufactured.
On the other hand, cannabis is a plant that grows in the wild in areas of the middle east and central America. The only reason why some feel that cannabis is difficult to cultivate is that under current US federal law and in most state jurisdictions it needs to be done indoors, which is very energy inefficient because it doesn’t utilize the most important ingredient for all things on earth, sunlight.
Let people grow whatever crop they see fit on the property which they pay tax.
There is another issue here as well. The same plant that can be used as a drug happens to have many other uses, most off which are perfectly acceptable. (The unacceptable non-drug uses include making it into a rope and strangling people, etc, nothing exclusive to the plant.)
We have a pothead in the CR. There’s no use trying to help him (or her) and there’s no tachlis in trying to get them to stop their drug abuse. They’re not going to listen, they’re convinced of the veracity of their claims, and that’s it.
It’s not only about drug abuse. It’s also about the right to say no. How are we supposed to say no to drugs if they aren’t available?
Let people grow whatever crop they see fit on the property which they pay tax.
No, Wickard v. Filburn says the feds can stop you from growing wheat for your animals because then you won’t buy wheat and then there will be more wheat on the interstate market.
That doesn’t mean the law is right.
By right you mean fair and moral?
Law is a prediction of how the courts will rule, and the best prediction of how the courts will rule is that the feds can outlaw it if they want.
by right I mean morally right, consistent with the opinions of the people, or right in my own immensly important, brilliantly superior opinion.
Hmm. Well, I disagree with you. I think it is eminently fair that the govt should prevent substances from being grown if they think they are dangerous to society.
No. The solution is far more dangerous than the problem.
If I would have to ban possible dangers, I would also have to ban all rope (for a reason I mentioned earlier), knives, heavy objects, glue (drug), and many other ordinary useful things.
There is probably no approach in the CR to stop a pothead from continuing to use, abuse, and push smoking marijuana. The purpose in responding to disagree is to insure that the readers here are not bulldozed by the erroneous information that is common to users of cannabis, who, understandably, wish to believe that their abuse of mind altering substances is actually healthy. In the addiction field, that is known as denial, though that particular defense mechanism is a chameleon, presenting itself in many colors.
THC, the main mind altering ingredient of marijuana is neither a sedative (though it has such a side effect), not stimulant. Rather, it is hallucinogenic. Generally, such effect is experienced only when used in high volume, and it is not experienced after a single joint or blunt. Regardless, it has known and documented toxicity (fancy word for poisoning) in smaller amounts, and has long term damaging effects on many organ systems. It lacks the drama of overdose common to many other drugs, but is no less dangerous and toxic. The effect of most other drugs is limited, as they are water soluble, are metabolized in several hours, and are absent from the body within several days. Not true for cannabis. A single joint of MJ is still detected in drug screening a week later, and regular use guarantees the detection for up to 6-8 weeks. THC is absorbed in cell nuclei, and the damage can continue weeks after last use. THC has profound effects on many parts of the body. Brain damage, impairment of all glands and glandular systems (thyroid, pituitary, adrenal, reproductive, etc.) are all documented, and are not uncommon. When used as “medical marijuana”, it is much like medications that each has its benefits and risks, and are applied by a medical professional who weighs these and reaches an educated conclusion.
Marijuana is not benign, and it is misleading to consider it safe. It should be illegal in all forms, and should not even be treated differently from the other “more serious” drugs. Use of makes people dumb and stupid, hence the justifications that are inconsistent with scientific fact. It makes its users lazy, killing motivation to do anything. My personal preference when I wish to be lazy is to do it without chemical inducement. Thus I am no longer impaired when I choose to get up and return to action.
Why, popa, is wheat unhealthy?
No. The solution is far more dangerous than the problem.
If I would have to ban possible dangers, I would also have to ban all rope (for a reason I mentioned earlier), knives, heavy objects, glue (drug), and many other ordinary useful things.
Ok, now we’re discussing the wisdom of the rule. Before you were just being libertarian and saying you want to be able to do whatever you want on your own land
Marijuana is a bad thing and we should have the right to choose on our own to avoid it. Its illegality makes it more appealing to people who don’t like the government.
I happen to like libertarians, though I am independent.
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