What is the English word for 'fargin'

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  • #598879

    Aishes Chayil
    Participant

    I’m racking my brains and just cant think of it! Can someone please help?

    #801790

    rescue37
    Participant

    I don’t remember, but Rabbi Reisman had a shiur a few years back called “Fargin, Farkook, Fargess” where he tried to define them in english.

    #801791

    bombmaniac
    Participant

    overlook.

    #801792

    msseeker
    Member

    Antonym: Begrudge.

    #801793

    ZeesKite
    Participant

    It doesn’t exist in English. Only Yidden do it!

    #801794

    AinOhdMilvado
    Participant

    As ‘msseeker’ hinted…

    The English would be to ‘NOT begrudge’.

    #801795

    on the ball
    Participant

    Zeeskite: Seriously? Only Yidden fargin?

    Anyway according to that logic there should be a Hebrew word for it rather than Yiddish which is derived from German (not exactly known for being farginners)

    #801796

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    There is no such word in German. Yidden made the word.

    #801797

    shlishi
    Member

    OTB: Hebrew is not a Jewishly spoken language since the current galus began. It’s reintroduction by the anti-religious Ben-Yehuda notwithstanding.

    #801798

    on the ball
    Participant

    Haleivi: Yiddish is mostly derived from German. It makes sense therefore that ‘fargin’ does too in some way. Are you an expert in Old German to be able to refute this?

    Shlishi: So what – the point still is that no such word exists in Hebrew/ Loshon Hakodesh.

    #801799

    tzippi
    Member

    To on the ball: lashon hakodesh does have the concept of ayin tova.

    #801800

    squeak
    Participant

    It certainly has a Germanic equivalent, though i do not care to opine on whether thisis in fact its root. The word in German is vergonnen (with an umlaute on the o) which is a compound of the root word gonnen.

    #801801

    on the ball
    Participant

    Tzippi: I’m not sure what your point is. We are discussing whether the verb ‘fargin’ is unique to Yiddish and if so, if that’s because only Yidden fargin.

    I personally think neither is true.

    Ayin Tovah is something which is likely considered praiseworthy by non-Jews too.

    #801802

    deiyezooger
    Member

    Fact; there isn’t a word for “fargin” in English or in Hebrew. It was disscused here in the past.

    #801803

    seeallsides
    Participant

    looking up the opposite of begrudge, envious – there was no word found

    #801804

    seeallsides
    Participant

    from Ohr Samayach –

    What does it mean when an Israeli says lefargen?

    Perhaps the lesson of Korach will alert our people to the importance of fargining others and bring peace and harmony to Israel forever.

    #801805

    Obaminator
    Member

    There’s no comparison between an Am Kodesh and a pruste goy.

    #801806

    Moshe Kohn
    Member

    Well, modern Hebrew took the word “LeFargain” (?????) from the Yiddish…

    Fargeenen goes much farther than merely not to begrudge what your fellow man has. In addition to the Ayin Tov, there is a connotation of Lev Tov in “fargeenin yennem”.

    #801807

    msseeker
    Member

    I disagree. Farginen is the exact teitch of having an ??? ????. There should be an English word “Goodeyed”, like “Goodhearted”.

    #801808

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Squeak, thank you. I didn’t find anything during my search.

    Moshe, it seems that people use it more as a passive I-don’t-mind-that-he-has…, then an active I’m-so-happy-for-him.

    #801809

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Msseeker, the word you are looking for is probably, good-willed. The concept can be described in Lashon Kodesh and in English, too. However, there is no verb in either language for it. You say, I can Fargin him. Can you say you Eyin Tov him?

    #801810

    bein_hasdorim
    Participant

    i’m not sure, but it’s the opposite of ‘closegin’.

    I don’t believe there is one word in the english language that describes it. That’s the beauty of yiddish.

    Accept no imitation. Takeh!

    #801811

    msseeker
    Member

    You’re right, it’s not 100% exact teitch. We should be able to say, “I can look at his fortune with an ayin tovah.”

    #801812

    principal
    Member

    The winner is to “not begrudge”!

    #801813

    squeak
    Participant

    HaLeivi, you are welcome. Languages are not easy to “search”, and web translators are not often helpful. Most of the time you need to find someone who studied the language or who is a native speaker.

    #801814

    Obaminator
    Member

    squeak, I find web translators often to be quite helpful.

    #801815

    ZeesKite
    Participant

    See! I indicated there’s not such word for it. All they can come up with is negative ones (not begrudge..). There is no ‘musag’ of it by the umos haolam. (it may be praiseworthy, only Yidden do it)

    #801816

    on the ball
    Participant

    Zeeskite: By your logic there is no musag of it in essence at all as there is no such verb in Lashon Hakodesh which is the essence of all that exists.

    By your logic too the musag of NOT farginnen – jealousy – only exists by Yidden ch’v. That is obviously untrue.

    How do you know only Yidden do it anyway? Goyim may not have a specific verb for it but they can still express it e.g. ‘Hey Chris, I’m so happy for you that your business got off to the right start.’

    If we want to be smug about our superiority over the Umos HaOlam let’s at least stick to those things that Chazal tell us we excel at e.g. Rachmonim, Bayshonim, Gomlei Chasodim instead of making up things based on a verb in Yiddish corrupted from German circa 1000 years ago.

    #801817

    I heard from a prominent Rosh Yeshiva in a shmuess, that there is no english word for fargin.

    #801818

    cherrybim
    Participant

    While we have a word “farginin”, which is to delight in someone’s good fortune; it is actually very rare that someone truly fargins another person, no matter what he expresses verbally to the contrary. And instead of the ayin tova which was mentioned in an earlier post, it is an ayin hara that is actually created.

    This observation is from a gadol.

    #801819

    Hacham
    Member

    Which gadol?

    #801820

    ZeesKite
    Participant

    on the ball

    Our ‘Fargin’ing is a combination of all three middos Chazal said about us! (do you fargin us?)

    btw, I humbly beg to differ with you. I think there are a lot more positive character straits that are unique to us. I think there’s a Gemarah somewhere that says about umos haolam ???? ??? ??? or ????? ?????? and the like. About Yidden I think it says ????? ?????? ?? and many more. So there’s more than just those three. – just my humblest opinion.

    #801821

    on the ball
    Participant

    Zeeskite: Of course that’s why I wrote ‘e.g.’

    #801822

    cherrybim
    Participant

    I don’t remember his name right now, but he quoted the g’mara in babba m’tzia that that 99 out of 100 people die before their time due to Ayin Hara. Chazal have said that Ayin Hara causes destruction from Above even without bad intention from the parties involved.

    #801823

    nitpicker
    Participant

    fargin means allow.

    #801824

    bombmaniac
    Participant

    Like I said above, ‘overlook’ is the best and most proper definition for the word ‘fargin.’

    For example: “I am willing to overlook the fact that you smashed my car with a tire iron.”

    #801825

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    I agree with nitpicker that the closest to a positive verb would be allow. Not perfect but I could allow you the credit.

    #801826

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    OnTheBall, I think ZeesKite is right, based on observation. You might several Yotzei Min Haklal, but we are one family and there is no comparison out there. There are jealosies among us, unfortunately. But there is also a unique feeling of oneness, that we witnessed recently, and that shines through very often. When a Yid wins a Nobel prize or a lottery, we all rejoice, much more than people of the same nationality. We are actually happy for him. This is a trait mentioned in Sefarim.

    The Ben Ish Chai writes a story about a king who punished two advisers, a Jewish one and a non Jewish one, by taking away a little boy from each, both being the same age. After a couple of years the king allowed them to take home their child. The king knew which is which, but he told them to pick their child. The Yid brought two trays of grapes. One had a cluster and the other had loose grapes. He brought it to the children and each took from a different tray. Instantly, he pointed to the one who took from the cluster and proclaimed him to be his son. The king said, “you are right, but how did you know?” He answered that Yidden are one people, we are all part of one. Therefore, my son associated with the cluster. Others are each on their own, and therefore gravitated toward the situation he identified with.

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