May 31, 2011 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #597191
It is interesting to see who posts when. I have to wonder if some or many are at work and are posting during the work day. So what is the Halacha about surfing the net and even being on this website when you are on your boss’ time clock? If you are self-employed there is obviously no issue unless you are billing hours and sneaking into the CR while you are doing so, but if you are an employee what is the justification for being here during business hours?May 31, 2011 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #774008
It depends if you get paid per hour, or per job.May 31, 2011 7:08 pm at 7:08 pm #774009adorableParticipant
I get paid per hour and still post here because there is nothing for me to do now. is that stealing?May 31, 2011 7:12 pm at 7:12 pm #774010
adorable – Ask your boss, maybe (s)he would send you home, have you sweep the floor, shred papers…May 31, 2011 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #774012
You are RIGHT ON THE BUTTON! That’s one more reason I don’t work. (even if I knew how to, actually if I knew how to use a computer I’d…). There is NO HETER to waste a bosses time or resources, unless it is standard practice in the field on occupation.
YOU KNEW THAT! You’re just pointing it out to us. Right?May 31, 2011 7:15 pm at 7:15 pm #774014cherrybimParticipant
So what’s the halacha if you know the answer to a halachic shaila and ask it anyway just to make Yiden into maizidim since they are not able to handle the truth? And what’s the halacha on lashon hara, or submitting a creative tax return; is it ok?May 31, 2011 7:15 pm at 7:15 pm #774015deiyezoogerMember
Never posting while on boss’s clock.May 31, 2011 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #774016adorableParticipant
my boss wants me here to answer the phones so he would not tell me to go homeMay 31, 2011 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #774017Pac / ManMember
ASK your boss if it is okay. If you’re afraid to ask, perhaps in your heart you know he doesn’t allow it.May 31, 2011 8:41 pm at 8:41 pm #774018HAKOL TOVMember
im with you on this one! if you notice i post very sparingly because its only when i don’t have anything to do at work! if im buzy i dont even peek in here!May 31, 2011 8:55 pm at 8:55 pm #774020bptParticipant
I’m paid by the project, so sometimes, I’m doing a 6 hour job, and sometimes, I’ve got 2 jobs 2 hrs each and down time in betweenJune 1, 2011 12:14 am at 12:14 am #774021TheGoqParticipant
aries if this issue is not something that affects you why are u interested?June 1, 2011 2:07 am at 2:07 am #774023
aries2756- you posted at 3:30. What’s your sitch?
Aside from the the mods who do it on their boss’s time clock you are obviously asking a rhetorical question, possibly looking to pick a fight. Idk, maybe people need an outlet for their aggressiveness so they are more productive at work. Since you presented your op as a question please elaborate-what is the question? What’s your opinion? Do you have any reasonable doubt that it may be okay and that people doing it here are not shortchanging their boss?June 1, 2011 4:21 am at 4:21 am #774024
The question is simple, I don’t work for anyone therefore I can be on the internet on this site or another anytime I choose to. On the other hand if I were at work and worked for someone else I believe at the very least that would be gezeilah because it would be on their time and not my own unless of course I were on a break. Most bosses are even upset if you make personal phone calls unless it is an emergency. So my question is unless one got specific permission from one’s boss to be here or any other website on their boss’s time what would the Halacha be? Is it permissible or not?June 1, 2011 4:28 am at 4:28 am #774025
aries – You stated that at the very least it would be gezailah, and you are also asking a question what it would be? Please explainJune 1, 2011 4:29 am at 4:29 am #774026Pac-ManMember
No it is absolutely not permissible to use the internet while on the boss’ time. The only one who can make an exception, is the boss. If he tells you it is permissible, then you have the green light. Otherwise, under Jewish Law, it is theft.June 1, 2011 11:08 am at 11:08 am #774027
You presented one side of an argument. Do you believe there is another side and if not why do you present it as a question when it is actually an opinion?June 1, 2011 12:48 pm at 12:48 pm #774028gavra_at_workParticipant
I’ve already posted many times my boss doesn’t mind, and he knows about it. I get paid to do my work.June 1, 2011 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #774029flowersParticipant
“Aside from the the mods who do it on their boss’s time clock you are obviously asking a rhetorical question, possibly looking to pick a fight. “
She isn’t looking for a fight. I too wondered how it’s possible that some posters, who are clearly employed, have so much time to post. Her question is legitimate, and i’m glad she asked it, since it may be considered maris ayin and it’s given the opportunity to these posters to explained themselves (which some did).June 1, 2011 3:41 pm at 3:41 pm #774031TheGoqParticipant
aries the halacha is work on your own failings and not worry about what other people are doing wrongJune 1, 2011 7:46 pm at 7:46 pm #774032
the halacha is work on your own failings and not worry about what other people are doing wrong
Definitely, we should work on our own failings, but kol Yisrael areivim zeh lazeh.June 2, 2011 4:34 am at 4:34 am #774033
Why are you not treating this halachic issue with as much fervor and importance as a man walking behind a woman? If it is indeed “gezeilah” or “geneivah” which I am not “learned enough” to say, then wouldn’t those who do not follow it properly be “trampling on halacha”? Wouldn’t the issue of geneivah or gezeilah be just as important as a man walking behind a woman?
And why if I ask a question on Halacha am I picking a fight? Isn’t one halacha as important as another? Why jump into the fray and defend the honor of one halacha but completely ignore the other. As flowers said, I have been wondering for a very long time how so many who said they were working people can manage to be on the CR during normal working hours.June 2, 2011 4:49 am at 4:49 am #774034
Is anyone accusing me? I DON’T WORK.June 2, 2011 4:53 am at 4:53 am #774035
Who were you addressing?June 2, 2011 5:03 am at 5:03 am #774036
I’m also not “learned enough” to say.. But I don’t think it’s proper to mitigate or denigrate one mitzvah because of another. One might be more ‘nizhar’ in one than the other. Simple. Are you careful in ALL mitzvhos, all equally?
But yes. I think I remember once in a shiur, that monetary issues can be more stringent than others, they carry more aveiros. But it’s the fallacy of a man to be ‘moreh heter’ in these issues.June 2, 2011 5:53 am at 5:53 am #774037
aries shetichye amoosh,
Your title suggests a question-what is the halachah-fair enough. Notice, however, that there is not one poster here that takes the position that it is OK to cheat your boss, and that is because there really is no question at all. As is evidenced from your posts, it is really a rant predicated on an assumption that some, if not many of the posters who are posting during business hours must be doing so dishonestly on their boss’s time. Why assume the worst. Unless you are a doctor in which case a dire prognosis can make you wealthy, but otherwise it is counter
productive for all parties, yourself included.
flowers-it all depends on how the question is asked.
But since you asked so nicely…I am self employed. I hire a full time secretary and I do not look over her shoulder because I know she is honest and gets the work done. If she chooses to take some down time and post on the cr(for all I know she is one of the posters here) I am fine with that. And I assume that most, if not all, who post during business hours are doing so honestly.June 2, 2011 7:45 am at 7:45 am #774038
aries, I think you misunderstood the posters who are arguing with you. The point is that there are no 2 sides to your question. EVERYONE agrees (or if someone doesn’t, please post!) that it is forbidden to do other things while being paid to work. So what is your question, meaning what is the argument the other way? The reason the “man walking behind a women” had so much discussion is because there were many people arguing that perhaps social expectations would be a more important factor then the Halacha, and there was some debate as to what the exact parameters of the Halach was. Here this is no question. If you read through this post you will see no one says it’s ok to post without permission while at work — no one even mentions any mitigating factors (except for adorable, with a side question) (And if you read the thread you can see that many of the posters who often post vehement and extreme defenses of other Halachos, have also posted unequivocally here that it is gezeila.)
As far as if you are having trouble being dan lkaf zchus the posters here, I can give you many possible explanations:
1)People are posting from all different time zones — what is during working hours for you may be different for them.
2)People may work unusual hours even in your time zone.
3)Some people work jobs with down time during which their boss allows them to do whatever they want, as long as they are there and available in case the phone rings or someone comes into the office, etc (and we can assume they have permission — I know a few people like that).
4)Many people work by the hour or the job, rather than during the set hours of 9 — 5.
5)People may have lunch breaks/ coffee breaks worked into their schedule, and post then.
6)Some people are their own boss!!!
The point is that there are many legitimate ways to be posting during the day, and there is no reason not to assume that your fellow posters are following Halacha. If someone is in fact stealing from their boss, and by reading your question they stop, then it was worth you posting it. But as far as in your mind, I really don’t see what the difficulty is in understand how people can manage it.June 2, 2011 7:47 am at 7:47 am #774039
I mean to mention in my post that I am currently a SAHM, so even if I post during working hours in my time zone (which is clear from my name!), I am not guilty of gezeila!June 2, 2011 1:31 pm at 1:31 pm #774040
Why take everything personally? Am I taking attendance? Did I ask anyone to “fess up”? I simply ask a question what is the halacha? People are so quick to judge and this was a true example. In the other post I was accused of “trampling on Halacha”, I was told what MY feelings were and a few other things that was quite inappropriate just by assumptions made by others. Everyone seems to “KNOW” what others are thinking and feeling even more than the poster themselves. YOU have everyone figured out.
I asked a simple question. And you all go reading into it what do I mean and who do I mean. There is a simple answer which is exactly what the halacha is. I didn’t accuse anyone and didn’t ask for confessions but you are all trying to figure out who I meant and what I am doing. Isn’t that interesting. If you are personally guilty then that is something YOU should think about and consider before accusing someone else of “trampling” on halacha or using any other such terms while posting on the CR, and also consider how you want to deal with it in the future. If you are not guilty then you know and follow k’hallacha. What’s the problem?
I am not looking to pick a fight, but maybe you can learn something from this.June 2, 2011 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #774041
aries — I think people were “reading in” to your question because everyone is assuming that this Halacha is pretty clear and well known (as you can see from the thread — no differences of opinion for once!). So it can’t be that you are “simply” asking what the Halacha is, because we assume you know what the Halacha is. Therefore either you are trying in a roundabout way to remind people about this Halacha, or you have an alternative motive.
I do not see any “confessions” on this thread — on the contrary there are only people defending their innocence and offering explanations as to what you asked when you said “I have been wondering for a very long time how so many who said they were working people can manage to be on the CR during normal working hours”. So people are explaining how they manage it — people are taking it “personally” because you said you were wondering how people did it. Even in your last post you say “if you are personally guilty then that is something YOU should think about and consider before accusing someone else of “trampling” on halacha”, implying that those who accused you of “trampling” on Halacha in a different thread may be guilty of this. So far no one has said this is ok, and no one has admitted to doing it, so who are you addressing this accusation at?
And as I pointed out earlier, the same people jumping to defend other Halachos are also pretty shtark in this post as well.
Also, I don’t see anyone trying to figure out WHO you meant — people are just answering for themselves as far as I see, which is a pretty normal response to your question which specifically asks about posters on YWN!
I’m sure you didn’t mean it this way, but your posts have come out very accusatory, and as by definition you are discussing the people who post here, obviously people are reacting because no one likes to be accused of wrongdoing (even when innocent).June 2, 2011 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm #774042
aries – Everyone knew thew answer to the question before you even asked it, (including yourself, as stated in one of your posts) so thats where the problems started…June 2, 2011 3:23 pm at 3:23 pm #774043
Why was it a problem?June 2, 2011 4:11 pm at 4:11 pm #774044
Why was it a problem?
Read BSD and m in Israel’s posts.June 2, 2011 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #774045goldenkintMember
just for the record here in j’lem i’m home from work. also i only work 3 days a week. so that’s an example of how someone can be posting when its your working hours but not theirsJune 2, 2011 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #774046oomisParticipant
I am retired. But I would NEVER, repeat NEVER surf the web while at work, on my boss’ dime. That is genaiva AND genaivas daas, unless your boss pays you to surf the web because your job is to test out websites. Yeah, I’d like that job.
Exceptions – you are on a lunch or other break, AND it costs your boss nothing for you to be commandeering your computer.June 2, 2011 4:54 pm at 4:54 pm #774047
DY – Thanks for answering it for me.June 3, 2011 4:47 am at 4:47 am #774048
But the halacha is pretty clear and well known about tznius as well as many other halachas and issues, and those questions has been raised and discussed many times, so again, RB and DY why was this question a problem? Perhaps because I raised it? Perhaps because I am being honest and sincere and you don’t like that because you would rather be right than admit it?
Yes I know that people post from different time zones and I also know that people are posting when they shouldn’t and I also know the halacha but i also brought it up as a topic just like anyone else does. Remember the topic “Minding other’s business”? No one had a problem with the OP and the topic itself even though that is exactly what we are talking about here. I didn’t ask anyone to confess, I didn’t ask who is doing what? i didn’t ask for a roll call and everyone and anyone to post if they are guilty or not. That is just what people chose to do on their own, however you and others decided that I was looking to fight with someone personally. That I was picking on someone and addressing this to someone individually and I wasn’t. Whoever thought that was feeling their own guilt and it had nothing to do with me. Just look at what the Goq wrote. I was simply pointing out an issue and a halacha since someone had the nerve to tell me that I “trample on halacha”. That was extremely rude and hurtful aside from it being a lie. So what would you call ignoring this Halacha is that trampling on halacha? Where is the big shot that made that comment on the other thread to attack me when I never said anything against the halacha or questioned it, just questioned the commitment of the person to the halacha?
My point is before you go jumping down someone’s throat try to understand what they wrote, don’t be sarcastic and don’t assume you know what they are thinking or feeling. Stop judging and jumping to conclusions. Give everyone the same respect and consideration that we each deserve. We are not all on the same playing field with the same knowledge and experience but we are all in the same Coffee Room chatting together. None of us are perfect and we all make mistakes but if we at least own up to the ones we make here and apologize to those we hurt, we can at least make the CR a better place.June 3, 2011 5:01 am at 5:01 am #774049
In short, you’re acknowledging that it wasn’t a real question.June 3, 2011 5:12 am at 5:12 am #774050
Aries – Sorry if you feel hurt, What posters (including myself) were under the impression that the OP was not a question, the answer is obvious, and there are no two ways to turn, rather it was more you wanted to know what type of excuses and reasons people have to be posting at all hours, people felt like they were getting attacked. Everyone understood that its pushet you cannot post during business hours, and there was no need for the question. Please tell me if I am wrong, and if this is not what you meant please clarify what did want to know when you asked the question. I apologize again if I may have hurt you. (BTW this thread does not apply to me)June 3, 2011 5:14 am at 5:14 am #774051
Nope, in short you didn’t understand a word I said and have no intention of trying.June 3, 2011 5:28 am at 5:28 am #774052
I was simply pointing out an issue and a halacha since someone had the nerve to tell me that I “trample on halacha”
I understood that statement as an admission that you only asked your “question” because you were hurt on another thread. Where did I go wrong on this?June 3, 2011 5:47 am at 5:47 am #774053
RB, if there is no need for this question there is no need for any question. I did not want or need excuses from anyone. I simply asked a question and wanted a halachic answer. We were discussing a halachic issue on the other thread so I brought up a halachic issue here. I was told that “everyone knows that the Gemara says a man can’t walk behind a woman”. But I begged to differ since everyone did not know that. But everyone surely knows that you can’t do your “own thing” on company time, yet it seemed to me that if everyone knew that why would they do that? So I decided to pose the question so all the halachic authorities who were so quick to answer and jump on me on the other thread could make it very clear to everyone just as they felt it necessary to make the other issue very clear to everyone as well. After all this halacha is as important as the other one isn’t it?
So the OP was a real question and NO I did’t want to know the excuses people had for being here at all hours because it is not my business or concern. Each to their own conscious. But I don’t like the hypocrisy shown when one chooses to go to battle for one halacha and ignore others. Or because it is I who posted a question, or when one assumes that I am on the attack or trying to pick a fight with anyone in particular.June 3, 2011 11:13 am at 11:13 am #774054
aries – So what exactly were you looking to hear? Not the answer to the question?June 3, 2011 1:29 pm at 1:29 pm #774055Pac-ManMember
As I unequivocally and strongly stated a few minutes after this thread was opened:
“No it is absolutely not permissible to use the internet while on the boss’ time.”
Yes, the hard-line defenders of up-keeping the halachas as stated in Shulchan Aruch are as strong here as they were with walking behind women.June 3, 2011 2:09 pm at 2:09 pm #774056
RB, why is it so important for you to analyze me? Are you a therapist? What is YOUR point? What are YOU looking to hear? Why are you digging? What part of this don’t you understand or are you having a problem with. Let me make it simple for you Read Pac-Man/ Joseph’s post and you will have your answer!June 3, 2011 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #774057
aries – I simply wanted to know what did you excpect to hear from your question. Please don’t scream at me.June 3, 2011 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #774058YW Moderator-80Member
aries will now say i wasnt screaming at you,
or you deserve it, or something else
i dont know
so im sorry aries you wont get the last word
but this is quite more than enough already
- The topic ‘What is the Halacha?’ is closed to new replies.