What Non-Toradik activies are acceptable?

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  • #602905
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    For those who belive that such things as Sports are Assur, Bittul Torah, Bittual Zman, Am Kodosh Tihiyu etc

    for those of us who cannot learn 12 hours a day or do Chessed 12 hours a day and need breaks what is Kosher for you

    what NON-“Torahdik” activies would be acceptable ?

    Ive seen people here claim the Library, Zoo, Museums, Mall , Sports are all unacceptable. So please tell me what IS acceptable

    #867707
    TheGoq
    Participant

    Hanging out on the porch intently staring at people you deem inferior to you.

    #867708
    ZeesKite
    Participant

    To post here. (I forgot, that’s a pikuach nefesh)

    #867709
    yitzchokm
    Participant

    Hanging out on the porch intently staring at people you deem inferior to you.

    lol!

    #867710
    Kozov
    Member

    what’s wrong with a zoo?! You can make the special brocho Mishane Habriyos and contemplate Niflaos Haborey!!

    #867711
    Loyal Jew
    Member

    We can’t take breaks from doing mitzvos by doing aveiros. We’re not taxi drivers who can put up a “not in service” sign. Indulging in goyish culture is no way for a Jew to take a break, if only because of maris ayin. Sports in particular are a problem because they bring out the worst in the goyim, not even the best. Boruch shepetarani.

    #867712
    Avi K
    Participant

    It de[pends on the person’s madreiga. The Rogochover even learned while sitting shiva for his wife because for him it was pikuach nefesh. Even on a somewhat lower level there are somewhat lower level there are people who even bring sefarim to weddings. However, most people need breaks and diversions. I had a rosh kollel who recalled that he had a chevruta who had a nervous breakdown because of over-intensive learning and even after he recovered could barely learn -and then ordered a guy to go to Miron for Lag b’Omer. Even the Chafetz Chaim was ordered to take a year off because his life was in danger.The key is to know oneself (see Mishna Sanhedrin 4:4 that when the Sanhedrin sat every talmid recognized his place – which was according to his level).

    #867713
    kfb
    Participant

    zahavah dad- I hope your kidding. You don’t actually believe that there are people out there who find all these things assur. They’re just being annoying or fake. My rosh hayeshiva was an awesome basketball player when he was a bochur and even at the age of 55 he would come shoot around with us and swish every 3. Sports are the best outlet for bochurim and are extremely encouraged in yeshivas.

    #867714
    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    Loyal Jew: You haven’t answered the question…

    Goq: Hey! My line! 🙂

    zdad: This is a very complicated issue. Draw a Venn diagram. Draw one circle containing everything you want to do that the Torah forbids. Then draw another containing everything that you want to do that your local Calvinist preacher forbids. Lastly, draw a third circle containing everything that you want to do that the posters you take issue with have forbidden. Take a look at the two circles, note the very small overlap and make your own decision.

    #867715
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    KFB, Bochrim are NOT enouraged to engage in sport activity.

    I was speaking to my nephews over Yom Tov and asked him about this, and he told me there while there was a Basketball court at his yeshiva NONE of the boys ever used it.

    Also I was just quoting some of the posts of the last few months and all those things have been forbidden by someone

    #867716

    ItcheSrulik: My Rosh Yeshiva used to play football (soccer for you yanks) with the Amshinover Rebbe when they were kids. Whilst neither play nowdays my Rosh Yeshiva encourages the guys to play whatever sports they enjoy, it is important to exercise and take a break.

    #867717

    The Library, Zoo, Museums, Mall , Sports are all ACCEPTABLE!

    If they aren’t someone should tell all the Frum people I’ve seen at baseball games, the zoo and malls this past week.

    For those who say it’s assur, well I say keep it to yourself and let the “sinners” worry about themselves.

    So enjoy the weather and have some fun with your kids…show them a good time…Chag Sameach!

    #867718
    adams
    Participant

    what about hiking?

    #867719
    HIE
    Participant

    adams: what should be wrong with hiking?

    #867720
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    adams: what should be wrong with hiking?

    There is Prizus there as some women are dressed in tank tops and shorts

    People “claimed” there was Prizus at the Mall and the Baseball game, why not say its hiking as well. You can claim there is Prizus everywhere except the yeshiva

    #867721
    Bar Bay Rav
    Participant

    There is nothing that is “Non-Torahdig” that is mutar. If there is no issues Al Pi Torah and Hashkafa to do something and you need the break Kol Hakovod and do it in good health.

    #867722
    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    Stamfordhillbilly: I like soccer too. I probably won’t play when I’m their age either zohl zein gezunt un shtark.

    #867723
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    WHen you need a break from the toil of Torah, for a few minutes, open a book on complex physics and calculus and relax over it.

    #867724
    agittayid
    Participant

    Perhaps being a sport spectator is not such a great thing. However, participating in a sport offers great benefits in health, social relationships, and mental well being.

    #867725
    truthsharer
    Member

    Actually, out of all those on the list, Zoos are indeed mentioned in the SA as being assur. However, zoos today are not like the zoos of yesteryear and it might be muttar. In Nosson Slifkin’s (non-banned) book about animals he has a whole chapter discussing the different poskim on today’s zoos and if they are muttar or not.

    #867726
    Loyal Jew
    Member

    Agittayid, by the same logic treif meat has healthful ingredients, a Shabbos drive in the country can help one relax, a television can relieve stress at work, etc. Still, we gladly pass up on all of them. The same with sports, be it spectating or participating, and in fact for all goyish leisure culture. As for what’s mutar, that’s a question for a posek, not for the CR.

    #867727
    Avi K
    Participant

    In Yerushalayim there is an American football league made up of yeshiva teams that play on arvei Shabbatot in the summer and motzaei Shabbatot in the winter.

    #867729
    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    I can understand where people are coming from when they “assur” following sports. But what is wrong with actually playing them? It is healthy for the body and mind.

    #867730
    agittayid
    Participant

    “by the same logic…”

    Unfortunately there is no logic here that I can see.

    One can eat kosher meat for the healthful nutrients.

    One can take a Sunday drive for relaxation.

    Listening to classical music can relieve stress at work.

    #867731
    Sam2
    Participant

    Loyal Jew: See Orach Chayim 301:2 and then try and tell me that sports are Assur.

    #867732
    sam4321
    Participant

    Sam2: Why not OC 309:45 Rama.

    #867733
    yitzchokm
    Participant

    truthsharer-

    Non-Banned? Really???

    Oh wait. This comment would highjack the tread. Carry on!

    #867734
    yitzchokm
    Participant

    Sam2, Loyal,

    There’s an obvious difference between spectators sports and “playing” our amature version of it.

    I think you might both be agreeing with each other

    #867735
    sam4321
    Participant

    Sam2: When carefully looking at the halacha it seems only for children and not for adults even according to the ones who hold it is permitted.

    #867736
    Patri
    Member

    Sam4: So S”A prohibits adults from playing amateur sports?

    #867737
    sam4321
    Participant

    Patri: Was talking about Shabbas not during the week.

    #867738
    lakewhut
    Participant

    If its not within the Torah its not acceptible. Sports can be played in a torahdike manner.

    #867739
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Even if sports is “permitted” why dont yeshivas encourage the boys to take some time off and play instead of building the court and discouraging either directly or indirectly the boys from playing

    #867740
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    BS”D

    I don’t like the question.

    Every activity has a Torahdik way of doing it, and a non-Torahdik way.

    Baseball can be played like the boys in Yeshiva Darchei Torah and the famous “shaya” story, or it can be played like a vilde Chaya.

    Every action that a person does can be learned from, and be used to become closer to Hashem.

    One does not become a Ba’al Middos by locking themselves up in a room and not knowing what a basketball is, but by saying “hike” to the American who asks for a Brocha to make a special connection (like Rav Sheinburg ZTL), or letting the special needs child hit a home run.

    #867741
    avhaben
    Participant

    Wasn’t Rav Shach zt’l among those opposed to sports playing by yeshiva bochorim?

    #867742
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    “If the only way we can sell our children on Torah is by forbidding everything else, then we are bankrupt” –

    #867743
    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    zdad: Most of these yeshivos built their basketball courts before it became common to discourage ball playing.

    #867744
    lakewhut
    Participant

    @avhaben Rav Shach was a litvak who lived in bnei brak. I don’t think he related to the idea of playing sports.

    #867745
    squeak
    Participant

    “what NON-“Torahdik” activies would be acceptable ?”

    Learning shelo lshma 😉

    #867746
    RABBAIM
    Participant

    Reading, ball playing, hiking,exploring, museums of non pritzus issues in art, history. if you can do it as Bchol Drochecha Daayhu then it becomes part of Avodas Hashem

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