April 12, 2012 2:35 am at 2:35 am #602905
For those who belive that such things as Sports are Assur, Bittul Torah, Bittual Zman, Am Kodosh Tihiyu etc
for those of us who cannot learn 12 hours a day or do Chessed 12 hours a day and need breaks what is Kosher for you
what NON-“Torahdik” activies would be acceptable ?
Ive seen people here claim the Library, Zoo, Museums, Mall , Sports are all unacceptable. So please tell me what IS acceptableApril 12, 2012 3:29 am at 3:29 am #867707TheGoqParticipant
Hanging out on the porch intently staring at people you deem inferior to you.April 12, 2012 3:50 am at 3:50 am #867708ZeesKiteParticipant
To post here. (I forgot, that’s a pikuach nefesh)April 12, 2012 4:32 am at 4:32 am #867709
Hanging out on the porch intently staring at people you deem inferior to you.
lol!April 12, 2012 5:21 am at 5:21 am #867710KozovMember
what’s wrong with a zoo?! You can make the special brocho Mishane Habriyos and contemplate Niflaos Haborey!!April 12, 2012 6:24 am at 6:24 am #867711Loyal JewMember
We can’t take breaks from doing mitzvos by doing aveiros. We’re not taxi drivers who can put up a “not in service” sign. Indulging in goyish culture is no way for a Jew to take a break, if only because of maris ayin. Sports in particular are a problem because they bring out the worst in the goyim, not even the best. Boruch shepetarani.April 12, 2012 6:52 am at 6:52 am #867712Avi KParticipant
It de[pends on the person’s madreiga. The Rogochover even learned while sitting shiva for his wife because for him it was pikuach nefesh. Even on a somewhat lower level there are somewhat lower level there are people who even bring sefarim to weddings. However, most people need breaks and diversions. I had a rosh kollel who recalled that he had a chevruta who had a nervous breakdown because of over-intensive learning and even after he recovered could barely learn -and then ordered a guy to go to Miron for Lag b’Omer. Even the Chafetz Chaim was ordered to take a year off because his life was in danger.The key is to know oneself (see Mishna Sanhedrin 4:4 that when the Sanhedrin sat every talmid recognized his place – which was according to his level).April 12, 2012 1:55 pm at 1:55 pm #867713kfbParticipant
zahavah dad- I hope your kidding. You don’t actually believe that there are people out there who find all these things assur. They’re just being annoying or fake. My rosh hayeshiva was an awesome basketball player when he was a bochur and even at the age of 55 he would come shoot around with us and swish every 3. Sports are the best outlet for bochurim and are extremely encouraged in yeshivas.April 12, 2012 2:05 pm at 2:05 pm #867714
Loyal Jew: You haven’t answered the question…
Goq: Hey! My line! 🙂
zdad: This is a very complicated issue. Draw a Venn diagram. Draw one circle containing everything you want to do that the Torah forbids. Then draw another containing everything that you want to do that your local Calvinist preacher forbids. Lastly, draw a third circle containing everything that you want to do that the posters you take issue with have forbidden. Take a look at the two circles, note the very small overlap and make your own decision.April 12, 2012 2:25 pm at 2:25 pm #867715
KFB, Bochrim are NOT enouraged to engage in sport activity.
I was speaking to my nephews over Yom Tov and asked him about this, and he told me there while there was a Basketball court at his yeshiva NONE of the boys ever used it.
Also I was just quoting some of the posts of the last few months and all those things have been forbidden by someoneApril 12, 2012 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #867716Stamford Hilly BillyParticipant
ItcheSrulik: My Rosh Yeshiva used to play football (soccer for you yanks) with the Amshinover Rebbe when they were kids. Whilst neither play nowdays my Rosh Yeshiva encourages the guys to play whatever sports they enjoy, it is important to exercise and take a break.April 12, 2012 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #867717mikehall12382Member
The Library, Zoo, Museums, Mall , Sports are all ACCEPTABLE!
If they aren’t someone should tell all the Frum people I’ve seen at baseball games, the zoo and malls this past week.
For those who say it’s assur, well I say keep it to yourself and let the “sinners” worry about themselves.
So enjoy the weather and have some fun with your kids…show them a good time…Chag Sameach!April 12, 2012 4:07 pm at 4:07 pm #867718adamsParticipant
what about hiking?April 12, 2012 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #867719HIEParticipant
adams: what should be wrong with hiking?April 12, 2012 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #867720
adams: what should be wrong with hiking?
There is Prizus there as some women are dressed in tank tops and shorts
People “claimed” there was Prizus at the Mall and the Baseball game, why not say its hiking as well. You can claim there is Prizus everywhere except the yeshivaApril 12, 2012 5:19 pm at 5:19 pm #867721Bar Bay RavParticipant
There is nothing that is “Non-Torahdig” that is mutar. If there is no issues Al Pi Torah and Hashkafa to do something and you need the break Kol Hakovod and do it in good health.April 12, 2012 6:19 pm at 6:19 pm #867722
Stamfordhillbilly: I like soccer too. I probably won’t play when I’m their age either zohl zein gezunt un shtark.April 12, 2012 6:24 pm at 6:24 pm #867723HaLeiViParticipant
WHen you need a break from the toil of Torah, for a few minutes, open a book on complex physics and calculus and relax over it.April 12, 2012 7:02 pm at 7:02 pm #867724agittayidParticipant
Perhaps being a sport spectator is not such a great thing. However, participating in a sport offers great benefits in health, social relationships, and mental well being.April 12, 2012 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm #867725truthsharerMember
Actually, out of all those on the list, Zoos are indeed mentioned in the SA as being assur. However, zoos today are not like the zoos of yesteryear and it might be muttar. In Nosson Slifkin’s (non-banned) book about animals he has a whole chapter discussing the different poskim on today’s zoos and if they are muttar or not.April 15, 2012 7:11 am at 7:11 am #867726Loyal JewMember
Agittayid, by the same logic treif meat has healthful ingredients, a Shabbos drive in the country can help one relax, a television can relieve stress at work, etc. Still, we gladly pass up on all of them. The same with sports, be it spectating or participating, and in fact for all goyish leisure culture. As for what’s mutar, that’s a question for a posek, not for the CR.April 15, 2012 8:42 am at 8:42 am #867727Avi KParticipant
In Yerushalayim there is an American football league made up of yeshiva teams that play on arvei Shabbatot in the summer and motzaei Shabbatot in the winter.April 15, 2012 11:26 am at 11:26 am #867729YW Moderator-42Moderator
I can understand where people are coming from when they “assur” following sports. But what is wrong with actually playing them? It is healthy for the body and mind.April 15, 2012 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #867730agittayidParticipant
“by the same logic…”
Unfortunately there is no logic here that I can see.
One can eat kosher meat for the healthful nutrients.
One can take a Sunday drive for relaxation.
Listening to classical music can relieve stress at work.April 15, 2012 2:41 pm at 2:41 pm #867731Sam2Participant
Loyal Jew: See Orach Chayim 301:2 and then try and tell me that sports are Assur.April 15, 2012 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #867732
Sam2: Why not OC 309:45 Rama.April 15, 2012 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #867733
Oh wait. This comment would highjack the tread. Carry on!April 15, 2012 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #867734
There’s an obvious difference between spectators sports and “playing” our amature version of it.
I think you might both be agreeing with each otherApril 15, 2012 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #867735
Sam2: When carefully looking at the halacha it seems only for children and not for adults even according to the ones who hold it is permitted.April 15, 2012 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #867736PatriMember
Sam4: So S”A prohibits adults from playing amateur sports?April 15, 2012 7:28 pm at 7:28 pm #867737
Patri: Was talking about Shabbas not during the week.April 15, 2012 8:22 pm at 8:22 pm #867738lakewhutParticipant
If its not within the Torah its not acceptible. Sports can be played in a torahdike manner.April 15, 2012 11:58 pm at 11:58 pm #867739
Even if sports is “permitted” why dont yeshivas encourage the boys to take some time off and play instead of building the court and discouraging either directly or indirectly the boys from playingApril 16, 2012 12:18 am at 12:18 am #867740gavra_at_workParticipant
I don’t like the question.
Every activity has a Torahdik way of doing it, and a non-Torahdik way.
Baseball can be played like the boys in Yeshiva Darchei Torah and the famous “shaya” story, or it can be played like a vilde Chaya.
Every action that a person does can be learned from, and be used to become closer to Hashem.
One does not become a Ba’al Middos by locking themselves up in a room and not knowing what a basketball is, but by saying “hike” to the American who asks for a Brocha to make a special connection (like Rav Sheinburg ZTL), or letting the special needs child hit a home run.April 16, 2012 12:33 am at 12:33 am #867741avhabenParticipant
Wasn’t Rav Shach zt’l among those opposed to sports playing by yeshiva bochorim?April 16, 2012 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #867742
“If the only way we can sell our children on Torah is by forbidding everything else, then we are bankrupt” –April 16, 2012 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #867743
zdad: Most of these yeshivos built their basketball courts before it became common to discourage ball playing.April 16, 2012 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #867744lakewhutParticipant
@avhaben Rav Shach was a litvak who lived in bnei brak. I don’t think he related to the idea of playing sports.April 16, 2012 10:04 pm at 10:04 pm #867745squeakParticipant
“what NON-“Torahdik” activies would be acceptable ?”
Learning shelo lshma 😉April 17, 2012 6:54 am at 6:54 am #867746RABBAIMParticipant
Reading, ball playing, hiking,exploring, museums of non pritzus issues in art, history. if you can do it as Bchol Drochecha Daayhu then it becomes part of Avodas Hashem
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