February 17, 2009 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #589420
This is a twofold post:
1: Should we do things we don’t believe in only for the sake of our children getting a shidduch?
2: what funny or serious things have you seen/heard people do for shidduchim?
To start, I think it is somewhat silly to do thinks just for the sake of shidduchim. You are what you are and there is no need to pretend.
As for a story, I know someone who would not let their husband go out to shovel snow without his black hat on, since someone may see him without a black hat and it would be bad for shidduchim 🙂
Anyone else?February 17, 2009 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #660670
gavra_at_work: I know someone who would not let their husband go out to shovel snow without his black hat on, since someone may see him-bad for schidduchim!
ha ha ha i’m laughing so hard!!!!!!!!!!February 17, 2009 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm #660671
I don’t think anyone should pretend for shidduchim. Honestly, I think its what adds to the shidduch crisis – people are bending over backwards for somewhat ridiculous things…and not halachic things or even chumras. Just narishkeit!
My cousin was given the “grade B” girls in the shidduch world because his family is not as frum and they wont support and they are a little bit off the beaten path. The girl he is marrying was considered “grade B” and when my Aunt was checking her out they heard “Its a really nice family but they are a little strange because they like to go hiking.” Yes, someone shouldnt marry someone because their family likes a good walk. <sarcasm>February 17, 2009 9:04 pm at 9:04 pm #660672
Gavra at work: no offense do that person but the wife is WAY to controlling, and that’s besides the point!!
I agree with sjs.. But sometimes u just have to do things a little different…February 17, 2009 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #660673
I once dated a girl who worked in a home for mentally disabled frum children. She told me one of the kids she deals with is the son of a famous frum person, but they never came to visit him- they basically pretended he didn’t exist “for shidduchim purposes”.
A relative of mine through marriage got married to someone who had a severe addiction problem which was hidden “for shidduchim”.February 17, 2009 9:18 pm at 9:18 pm #660674
Something I’ve heard (IT’S TRUE) A boy’s mother wanted to meet a prospective girl that they were checking into for their son. The mother wanted to meet the girl at the POOL (in her bathing suit)! The girl’s mother refused to meet the boys’ mother’s demand! Good for her! (side point: the girl is not heavy, ugly, or anything, but they felt it was a totally inappropriate demand!)February 17, 2009 9:32 pm at 9:32 pm #660675
A relative of mine through marriage got married to someone who had a severe addiction problem which was hidden “for shidduchim”.
Jothar, to be fair, my MO friend (no shidduch involved) went through the same thing. People with addictions tend to hide and lie about them.
Chatty, that is sick. Why not just ask to meet her at a mikvah? Ugh. Some people.February 17, 2009 9:34 pm at 9:34 pm #660676
Perhaps the husband agreed with her.
Chatty: 100%. Hang up on the spot.February 17, 2009 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm #660677
1) I know a son of a dentist who told me that a shaddchan once called him and ask for info on how the girls teeth were (know this is true) – this is crazy!! He tells them that not only are they being silly, its also private info between the doc and the patient
2) I know another person who was called as a reference and was asked what they ise on shabbos (paper, plastic or china.
Maybe if people would stop looking into such non-important things and wouild just focus on what is important, this whole “shidduch crisis” would not be around.February 17, 2009 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #660678
Gavra: maybe but still…
Chatty: omg wacko mother!!!!!February 17, 2009 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #660679
I simply can not believe that these stories are true… people are seriously in need of psychiatric help.February 17, 2009 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #660680
I was at a vort the other day and I went to get some food. A girl said, “Hello- it’s not good for shidduchim – you shouldn’t eat at vorts.” A looked her straight in the eye and I said, “People who won’t set me up or let me marry their son because I eat at vorts are people who I don’t want to get involved with and I don’t care what they think!” And I proceeded to guiltlessly (not a word) cut a slice of the delicious looking chocolate cake and sat down and ate it.
Just because some people have crazy random standards doesn’t mean that our lives have to be ruled by them. Just a thought…February 17, 2009 9:53 pm at 9:53 pm #660681
loved the dentist story some people are totally nuts:)February 18, 2009 12:50 am at 12:50 am #660683
If I saw someone shoveling snow with a black hat on, I would definitely avoid a shidduch with them. I’d be concerned with mental illness in the family!February 18, 2009 1:15 am at 1:15 am #660684
ew chatty that’s just totally gross!!
striving, lol that’s hysterical. If I’m with a bunch of friends we totally do that like go to a vort and davka sit down and eat just to see the looks ppl give us. It’s for the books!February 18, 2009 2:06 am at 2:06 am #660685
this stories sound crazy.$February 18, 2009 2:16 am at 2:16 am #660686
Striving, I am VERY proud of you. If my son were a little older, you could date him! (OK he is 1…)
Now that you have the approval from some random person online…LOLFebruary 18, 2009 2:23 am at 2:23 am #660687
sadly I know of such people, its really sadFebruary 18, 2009 2:31 am at 2:31 am #660688
Agreed areivim! No wonder there are so many mother-in-law jokes..February 18, 2009 2:41 am at 2:41 am #660689
SJSinNYC: ha ha your funny!!!February 18, 2009 2:51 am at 2:51 am #660690
Someone told me that a boy’s mother said no to a girl because the mother saw her on a hike WEARING A PONYTAIL!
Lady get a grip-what would you like to wear high heels and a suit?!
striving-I am so with you there-Whenever i go to vorts no body eats because”People are watching me” or I will “ruin my makeup”-how pathetic!February 18, 2009 3:04 am at 3:04 am #660691
Many ehrliche yidden wear a hat ANYTIME they go outside. It has nothing to do with shidduchim; in fact Zeida’s, who long ago married off their children, do so.February 18, 2009 3:26 am at 3:26 am #660692
Striving: niiiicee!!!!! I would do the SAME THING!!!!! But where I live ppl look if u DON’T eat they’ll think ur starving urself lolFebruary 18, 2009 3:38 am at 3:38 am #660693
Will Hill- a hat while shoveling though?February 18, 2009 3:48 am at 3:48 am #660694
OH NO!!! I will never find a shidduch! If this is what MILs want- I am doomed! I had braces (railroad tracks- yes), gone on a hike before and —(the worst) I ATE AT MY FRIEND’s VORT!!!
But truly, I have heard weird stories… like the one who was asked if they had a plastic tablecloth on the table, only use white table cloths (and not even cream or ivory)… and my favorite: asking the guy what type of shoes his sisters wear… like they would even know! Ask the parents if you really want to know….February 18, 2009 5:06 am at 5:06 am #660695
sjs: i dont think your mikva comment was appropriate at all even though that mothers demand is ridiculus.
and to a certain extent i think you can do things for shidducim. obviously the stories here are way too crazy but whats wrong with an overweight person losing weight when it comes time to shidducim? (obviously not anorexic or beliemic c”v.)February 18, 2009 5:35 am at 5:35 am #660696
Will Hill: Gavra@work’s point was, I think, that wearing the hat was MADE a part of shidduchim–which is frankly ridiculous. If one wants to wear a black hat during all of one’s mundane activities, that’s one’s prerogative. But it’s a pretty sad day when a shidduch is turned down because some busybody saw the girl’s or boy’s father shoveling snow, mowing the lawn, taking out the garbage, etc., without a black hat.February 18, 2009 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #660697
A Goy of 50 years ago also put on a hat whenever he left the house (which all changed by JFK). Here they are only doing it for shidduch purposes, which is the point.
Don’t you (Will) have any good stories? With a name like Will?February 18, 2009 1:44 pm at 1:44 pm #660698
Re Will Hill: no question about the hat, but then why not do as the zeides did and wear a practical winter hat?February 18, 2009 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #660699
syrian, lucky you!!February 18, 2009 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #660700
Many ehrliche yidden NEVER wear a hat at any time. If they are male, a yarmulke is what they wear. If they are female, they either do or do not cover their hair, depending on their marital status and hashkafa. While snoveling snow outside in the cold, it is highly recommended that EVERYONE wear a warm winter hat to protect themselves. A Borsalino will NOT do the job, so someone shoveling snow in that type hat is actually misakein himself unless he also has ear muffs on.February 18, 2009 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #660701
From an article I just saw:
“Everything blew up after seven children left heder [religious elementary school],” said one community member. “At first we didn’t understand why, and then it turned out that they had been abused. The parents wanted the matter to be dealt with, but they were warned that if the abuse became known it would harm their children’s chances of finding a match. The parents got quiet and the children remained damaged because no one defended them.” He and a former community member also said one of the teachers beat the children.February 18, 2009 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #660702
sjs: i dont think your mikva comment was appropriate at all even though that mothers demand is ridiculus
Flatbush, the story made it seem like the mother wanted to see the poor girl’s body. Once you are asking for that, you might as well ask for the full monty! The whole thing is ridiculous. I’m not quite sure why my comment is inappropriate though.February 18, 2009 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #660703
exactly sjs. everyone here understood that. i am not sure why you needed to spell it out. you were not enlightening anyoneFebruary 18, 2009 7:02 pm at 7:02 pm #660704
anon for thisParticipant
I didn’t think SJS’s comment was inappropriate, given the anecdote Chatty mentioned. But I do find it disturbing that a woman would want to see a prospective daughter-in-law in a bathing suit before approving a shidduch. I can’t imagine wanting that kind of information about my sons’ future kallos.February 18, 2009 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #660705
Jothar, It’s totally true!!! In my brother’s school which is a well known yeshiva there is currently stories circulating about one rebbe, but my brother warned my father that if he would say anything and start a tumult, then my brother would never find a shidduch!!! Crazzzy!! My father said something anonomysly but unfortunately that’s what would happen!!February 18, 2009 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #660706
Same goes with mental health… There are so many kids in school who are struggling but their parents will not get them the help they need because it will “affect their shidduchim”. So they suffer in anguish throughout elementary and high school, failing and having low self esteem ect.
Also, there are some people, especially when they are in their teens, who will not seek professional help when it is called for. The kids have serious psychological issues such as eating disorders, or other not as obvious ones. Some kids I know really need to be on medication (not that it is appropriate for everyone) but their parents will not get them the help they need. It is really a nebech for the children, and it can harm not only the children (they can be normal, learn and grow in school ect), but their teachers, classmates ect…
When someone advises that their child should get tested, maybe it is appropriate to get a second opinion and not just wave them off. It is for the good of the child!February 18, 2009 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #660707
Havesome: that’s scary
Myshadow: yeah!!!! Its like what, ur not eating??? HaFebruary 18, 2009 10:00 pm at 10:00 pm #660708
JOthar- where did you read this? i heard it happened like a few years ago, but whoa- this has to be stopped from occurring! they keep hurting kids because they know that no parent wants to come forward with it unless they can get on the witness protection program and get a new identity!February 18, 2009 10:50 pm at 10:50 pm #660709
I just got it from another J-news website.February 19, 2009 2:33 pm at 2:33 pm #660710
What about these questions about the family for a shidduch: (these are real questions that could be asked about a potential shidduch)
1)Who is their Rov?
2)Did the family eat dinner together during the week or just on shabbos?
3)Did the mother stay home with the children, or did they have a baby sitter growing up?
4)Do they live within their means?
5)What is their attitude towards potential baalei teshuvah?i.e. having them in their home for a meal on shabbos?
6)What is their involvment in the community?
7)Who are their friends?
8)Is the aura in the home more laid back or more intense?
yes some of these are vague, but I know some people who would like to ask these (not me yet my children have a while to go…)February 19, 2009 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #660711
no, I’m saying they should. Someone mentioned they’d like to ask these, and felt even thought they were vague, she knew why she wanted the answers. They also were not in line with “China or paper?”February 19, 2009 7:15 pm at 7:15 pm #660712
kiruvwife, I agree, I think they’re all pretty fair questions except these:
2)Did the family eat dinner together during the week or just on shabbos?
It doesn’t say anything about the family, most families that have grown children like my own, barely even see each other during the week. I’m in college at night, my brothers are in yeshiva…You can’t really judge a family by that
4)Do they live within their means?
No offense, but whose business is that? Like my relative used to drive by the boy’s house to see what the outside looked like and if they upkept the garden! Like hello who cares!!February 19, 2009 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #660713
not sure if this went through 5 times or didn’t make it at all. so i’m sending it again but i expect it’ll be up only once…
myshadow, i think the question was: are they realistic and living within their budget? it’s not normal for people to take out two mortgages and be in debt while driving fancy cars and going on major vacations.
that’s how i saw it.February 19, 2009 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #660714
Myshadow, I think they are fair questions. My family always tried to eat together every night. We would wait for the latest person, unless it was really too late. Whoever was home though would eat together. I think it says quite a bit about family dynamics or at least how they approach this. So if everyone is busy, they might answer that whoever is home at a reasonable hour always eats together because family time is important.
I think living within their means is important. After all, if the girl is used to extravagence but her family cannot afford it, how does that bode well for a marriage? It means her husband will have to provide things that they cannot afford! Do weekly manicures matter when money is tight? No. Again, its a mindset.
Neither of these things should stop a shidduch, but I dont think its bad information.
Lets look at number 3 – what if the mother was a single parent and needed babysitters so that she could provide food and shelter for her kids? Do you hold it against her? No, buts its good information to know.
I honestly think this is the least offensive list of questions I have ever seen.February 19, 2009 8:46 pm at 8:46 pm #660715
myshadow- just because these things don’t matter to you, doesn’t make them unreasonable to ask. To some dinner/family time is top priority & they want that in their own home. Some people abhor living beyond what they can afford- to show a gaudy face to the world when they can barely pay bills or even more extreme, can’t put food on the table.
It has to do with where you’re coming from and what is important to youFebruary 19, 2009 9:13 pm at 9:13 pm #660716
When I was in Yeshiva- someone called me and asked me if the boy I sleep with is healthy, I answered that he’s ion approx 360 tablets a day but I don’t think their for medical purposes maybe just for nutrition etc.
I love winding them up!February 19, 2009 10:49 pm at 10:49 pm #660717
asking about someone’s health has unfortunately become a very necessary question to askFebruary 19, 2009 11:27 pm at 11:27 pm #660718
This topic makes me sad!!!!February 19, 2009 11:40 pm at 11:40 pm #660719
I meant nervous its scary this stuff!
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