What would you do…?

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  • #607960

    superme
    Member

    What would you do if your teenage daughter came home saying that she was bashed by her rabbi teacher in front of the room?

    My situation: I was kicked out of my rabbis class or some reason he dislikes me. Anyway I hadn’t done anything wrong but he decided to kick me out so obviously I left. When I returned to class after he was gone my classmates where red eyed I asked wat happens; they told me that while I was gone the rabbi bashed me ad gave a lesson on me…….!!! I was very hurt I went to the principal who basically told me to come back in 2 days . I did when I returned she told me she asked the rabbi what happens and he walked out on her. So she told me I can’t go back into that class so I asked, obviously rhatshows something if he walked out that I was right….? She refuses to listen to me. My parents tried talking to him doesn’t work what am I supposed to do. 1) I need to save my “name” and 2) how do I go on with this?

    Thank you everyone!

    #928375

    playtime
    Member

    Speak to your Rav.

    #928376

    SaysMe
    Member

    ouch, that sounds hard, and i’m sorry you’re going through this. Just so you know though, your friend wasnt allowed to tell you what had happened, and you can’t take her words at face value n believe them. What would i do… Try to view it from the rabbi’s point of view, being frustrated at disturbances, not having control of the class, or even his feeling he or his topic is not getting the respect it should be. Block out your view for these few minutes and try to not be as upset. When you know your not too worked up, you should go to the rabbi and apologize sincerely. Even if you feel he was 100% wrong! Apologize anyhow. It will cool the tension he has to you and also he may respect you for it. If he doesnt respond, just say you wanted him to know you were sorry if you disturbed class n leave it at that. He may discuss what bothered him;try not to ataack him, he’s just sharing his point of view. After you can ask if you can share yours. This may be all he is waiting for to let you back in. Even if not, you did your part. Leave it up to the principal to try and speak to him when he calms down after that. gluck!

    #928377

    superme
    Member

    Talmud- thank you do you by anychance know ofa rav that ican call?

    #928378

    superme
    Member

    Says me- first of all all my classmates said it to me after I pulled It out of them what happens I mean they walked outof theclass red eyed crying second of all principals said tree not doin anything bout it and I have to dealwith it. Third ofall even if rabbi wasn’t getting the respect he shld of (I’m not saying he did rdidnt def from me he got respect) it doesntake a difference you don’t bash student I’m extremely hurt from him. And I did go over an apologize and he told me “I’m helpless,hopeless,…etc” there was another rav if the room at that time. That rav didn’t know wat to say he was shocked!! So basically I didn’t do anything wrong and I’m tortured from him!!!!!! People likethis should not be in chinuch you ruin a child like this!!!!

    #928379

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    there was another rav if the room at that time. That rav didn’t know wat to say he was shocked!!

    Maybe speak to that other rav.

    #928380

    JustHavingFun
    Participant

    @superme- I’m speechless. As a parent of boys, I can remember many times when one would come home saying he’d been “kicked out” of class and I was like “what did you do to deserve it”? Usually with boys, there’s some kind of commotion. And frequently, after my son told me what happened, I could understand why he got kicked out. But it was rare. Unless you were being super-chutzpadik, I can’t fathom this happening.

    SaysMe gave good advice about asking mechila. But since it sounds like you did that already and had a worse experience of being humiliated, it’s time to kick it up a level. Talk to your parents at a calm and private time. Think of all of the things you were doing at the time and what the general mood of the class was. Be 100% honest. Since you already apologized to the rebbi I know you have it in you. Ask your parents for advice and support. See what they have to say and how they can support you. Perhaps you can come up with some kind of plan to all meet with the rebbi and have a “behavior plan” ready for him. Be proactive. But also be respectful and humble. If my daughter came home with this tale, I’d support her all the way, but I’d also want to uncover the truth. Every story has two sides. It may be that you caught it when the rebbi was at the lowest of lows and couldn’t take one more thing. They are human.

    I’ve been in your place, accused of something horrible and very upsetting, with no seeming way to redeem myself. I urge you to daven to NOT carry a grudge. Daven for his welfare, that he should have the zechus of good classes, wonderful nachas from all his children. If you develop a grudge, you’ll only hurt yourself. Remember, HaShem gives us what we need. I’m not trying to blow you off or be “frum,” rather I wish you growth, Toradige growth, through this difficult period.

    #928381

    superme
    Member

    Daas yochid-I am trying to but this rav 1) teaches all over so he’s very busy and 2) he doesn’t either know the whole story he just saw that happen and he doesn’t knowwat to say about that…I’m telling you I’m really stuck on this situation!!! Dont know wat to do!!!

    #928382

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    1) teaches all over so he’s very busy

    Try to make an appointment.

    2) he doesn’t either know the whole story

    I assume that when you speak to him, you will tell him.

    #928383

    playtime
    Member

    Dear superme,

    It’s about time you were let in on a secret. From your description, it is irrefutable that Your Rabbi is

    a) emotionally imbalanced

    b) grossly lacking self esteem

    Take yourself out of the equation for a sec, and listen: He’s trying to make a living, fighting mightily for his mortgage payment and to put food on the table for his family. His teaching only superficially builds his self esteem, so he must torment others to gain himself a handle. YOUR STRONG. YOU HAVE FRIENDS. YOU’RE YOUNG AND FREE. Pity him.

    We once had a teacher who used to throw tantrums at expense of good boys (and she always gave us bad marks). We realized she was very insecure so the class chipped in for a box of chocolates for Purim, and the whole class signed it. We gave it to her the week before Purim, and the second she got it, she walked out of the room. When she came back, she was all red eyed like she was crying in the bathroom. She was THE NICEST TEACHER SINCE!

    It is a good idea to get hold of the other Rav in the room. If you think he’s a Rav you would want to talk to, call his home, and set up a meeting, and nothing less. Lay the story down before you meet him to make sure you’re not leaving anything out. If not, speak to the rav of your shul who knows you or your family, for advice.

    Let us know what happened, and good luck!

    #928384

    superme
    Member

    Thnk you just having fun. My parents got involved ad afte my parents pressing him he said oh i don’t exactly know wat she did wrong but….” I was so mad and right now I’m really stuck and yes , I hold Avery bad grudge and I curse him out (in my head) and I rly don’t know wts gna be but I want an apology infront of my classmates I’m so embarrassed !!! Even though they all told me don’t worry we know were right and te stuf he was saying wasn’t true, I’m still hurt and want an apology this is what Ili get when was being good I’m hurt and cinfused!

    #928385

    superme
    Member

    Das yochid- yes I will but this rabbi teach me next year so I don’t know if I want to gethim so much involved I don’t wat him to know this bout me before he even has me as a student. I’m very upset about all this and don’t knowbwhere to go with this. I get soupset at everyone because noone sticks up for me not even my parent so well. He basically said that I didn’t do anything (c my last post) and my parents shld of pressed him further but no instead I hav to go through. So much argus nefesh! Ive been davening to Hashem to help me with this but I’m afraid he hasn’t 🙁

    #928386

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Who’s stuck, you or him?

    #928387

    superme
    Member

    I’m stuck because I’m upset and hurt I don’t know what I should do

    #928388

    playtime
    Member

    No no. What DY is saying, and eloquently so, is that he is the one who is stuck. How would you feel standing in front of a classroom, haven been taken out by a pipsqueak student the year before?

    #928389

    oomis
    Participant

    I usually believed that when a rebbie threw a kid out of class, (my kid or not) it was for a valid reason. But I have come to learn over the years, that rebbeim are human beings who also make mistakes sometimes, and it is possible for a student who is completely innocent, to be rebuked for no valid reason. It happened to my son, I think I related the story here once,and the student who was actually guilty immediately came forward and said my son had done nothing wrong, but the rebbie kicked him out anyway.

    He called us in for a meeting at school, and he was very embarrassed in the end, when he finally came to realize his gross error. We were not looking to bust his chops, but we did express our dismay that he had not been dan l’kaf z’chus to at least listen to my son’s defense. He acknowledged his error and to his credit apologized to my son for the embarrassment caused to him.

    #928390

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I wasn’t sure what she meant; it sounded like he admitted to the parents that he was stuck, but I guess that’s not what she meant .

    #928391

    superme
    Member

    Okay he told my parents that “I agree I was being a little more for somereason watching your daughter and wat she did was nothing specific…” oh youean that way dy yes he was kind of stuttering then e realized maybe he was wrong. Oomis I reallydont know what to do I was so well behaved I promise I never behaved so well in his class before this time u really didn’t move a muscle amd he yelled at me “you have to sit and tremble and have fear in myclass” who does he think he is god?!

    #928392

    superme
    Member

    Talmud- no he is a know rabbi so hes not building himself up and suffering the one trying to build myself up but with him it’s impossible. Andagain I need a number ofa rav to talk with I dot know who I should talkwith

    #928393

    SaysMe
    Member

    superme- i’m sorry if i came across harshly. I feel for you. I’ve seen these things happen and experienced them, and i am not thinking you did anything wrong or didnt respect him! Only that he might feel that way even if not at all true. I do think he was incorrect, but as other posters explained he may be insecure or had a bad day, etc. I agree that an apology to you is in order, but you cant force him to say it or feel it. You are allowed to be upset and hurt. My point was to go back after the situation has blown over n calmed down on both sides, and then apologize calmly, again if it be. Its terrible that he insulted you when you came to apologize, he was obviously still upset about whatever had upset him, or else on defence realizing his error. But try again.

    Abt your friends telling, even if you asked or dragged it out of them, its actually rechilus, and here the effect was seen- you are angry and bearing a grudge :(.

    Speaking to that other rav is still a good idea. If anything, he wll respect you for wanting to fiz this up in a proper way. Gluck!!

    #928394

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Superme, a request. Can you please proofread your posts before hitting “send post”? I’m having trouble reading t-9’s editing. Thanks.

    #928395

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    I think you should give it up. He’s not apologizing so fast, and your whole class is on your side. There is nothing to settle other than having him publicly admit how wrong he was.

    Just recognize that yes you were wronged and so what. He won’t do it again so fast. Learn to deal with people being wrong sometimes. Most people will do certain things wrong. Not all of them will (or can) apologize.

    If you need to, you can mope about it for a day — which you already did — and go back into class. Perhaps you’ll come around and be Mochel him too, when you come to see him as a spungy human being with challenges all his own.

    #928397

    superme
    Member

    Saysme- Its ok :). And I apologized 2X once a week after the incident and one a month after. My parents even got involved nothing is working. And halevivi I can’t just forget about it he won’t let me into his classes but is making me pass them (which he considers a pass 85%) he’s murder even if you in his class let alone out of it. My thing is even of he was insecure or had a bad day like says me said, then if things happen that you will blow up like this my theory is don’t be in chinuch your ruining a child!!!! I’m ruined from it my toughts are how cam a rav ever do such a thing? Then he give speeches on treating everyone nicely, anger etc and this is what he does it’s inexceptible I don’t think he should be a rav at all even if he’s smart etc first comes first “PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH” am I wrong for this? Halevivi off it was just about being thrown out then fine but I was BASHED!! I’m really hurt whenever I think about it I cry and ask Hashem how such a thing can happen HE’S A RAV?!?! I don’t think I’m wrong for thinking this it’s true he’s a rav!!!! I wouldn’t bash someone infront f people or give a class on not to turn out like her, she’s bad, don’t be yer friend etc?! Hope I made things clearer in here

    Dy- sorry hope this is better?

    #928398

    SaysMe
    Member

    superme- this is a month later?? Ok thats nuts. Definitely ask a rav for advice, and still preferably the one who overheard. I do agree with you that someone who can bash someone and still keep you out a month later is not right, and should not be teaching. He hurt someone badly, and made a chilul Hashem being a rav- his image is one he has to act to. I wish you could tell him how hurt you are, how you feel so let down on who rabbanim are. It doesnt sound like he’ll apologize sadly. But still i dont know if or what you are allowed to believe from what you were told. Everything is subjective, your friend could have taken it worse that it was said, bec she’s close to you etc. Its important to tell whoever you speak to that you heard it through someone. I think this may be beyond your actions and should be left for ur parents to work out together with the teacher and principal together at a meeting. Or it may be completely out of your control and u should try viewing it as a challenge to accept and work on getting over and forgiving. For your benefit. It may give u some peace of mind to view him with pity and not be focused on the painful incident anymore.

    #928399

    funnybone
    Participant

    Option 1:I would see if the class can have a meeting with the principal or see if the class can speak with the Rav.

    Option 2: Write an apology note and ask your parents and the principal to sign it. Ask the principal to hand it to the teacher and see where you go from there.

    #928400

    superme
    Member

    Saysme- yes it’s been a really looooooong month!! And I thought I made it clear but I guess not it wasn’t just my friends who told me all 27 classmates some who I just say hi to nothing more and they were shocked that’s when I knew it was something bad!!!!! Parents really nt doing anything anymore I yelled at my parents for not sticking up for me and taking care f it etc I was and am very hurt by him amd even though my friends don’t believe him for what he said I still feel like I have to save my name what should isay?! I still cry myself to bed everynight bec of this I’m mortified and now I have a lot of questions about god who is he, how do we know we were the chosen nation, what does moshiach mean, how do we know that no other nation is true, etc a lot is because of this!!!! Do you have a rav I can call? I’m just not sure bout this rav who overheard I would get him in touch with a rav who I would talk to so he can hear his perspective…do you have a rav oleaseeeee?? Can’t cont like this losing my mind!!!!

    #928401

    ShiraTobala
    Member

    You should know that rav is not suppose to be a rav bc most real rabbanim dont talk that way or act the way he does. There is a G-d – Hashem and He made everything how did the trees get here? BTW I could tell that your a rebel but, just ignore that rabbi. You should switch schools because you live in NY. I was in your spot and didn’t switch and glad i didn’t if i would have i would have been otd because where i live theres not so many girl schools and the other school i almost went to almost everyone is otd. Look into other schools b4 something else happens but, first make a deal with the principal and maybe he’ll help you so, that way you dont need to switch if he’s not working with you after you made a deal with him switch b4 you go otd.

    #928402

    superme
    Member

    There not working with me rather there disgusting to me. I know that he shouldn’t be a rav!!!!! And trees plant them i don’t knowbut this “rav” makingme think a lot bout god!!! Switch but I lovem y friends!! And rebel why you think that?

    #928403

    SaysMe
    Member

    shiratobala-seriously? Run into a problem and u gotta switch schools or u’re destined to go otd? Do u not realize the potential damage you can cause?

    Superme- ur fine, stay with ur friends. Don’t let this one person, who we all feel should not be teaching, or has his own problem, get between you and G-d. You’re above him. If you have qs, find s/o to ask them to, but dont make it his fault, dont let him have that control over you.

    #928404

    ShiraTobala
    Member

    Super me- Talk to your friends about it, maybe they can help you… Rebel with me and my friends from the other school r used pretty often.. it bc a pj whatever…

    Says me -I meant that she should work with the principal and see what they can do to help her and if there not working with her then they she should switch.

    #928405

    artchill
    Participant

    1. A ka’asan and kapdan are two specific types that should not be in front of a classroom. The specific teacher seems to fit both descriptions.

    2. A Rav is not G-d. You may be rejected by one glaringly incompetent Rav, but Hashem hasn’t rejected you. Get a grip.

    3. If a teacher forces a student OTD, they will ultimately pay the price.

    4. Find someone who can go to bat and advocate for you. Your parents are out to lunch.

    #928406

    superme
    Member

    Saysme- your right and no because of this I don’t plan on switching schools I really plan on stayingwoth y friends. Second whodo you ask such questions to? And I wouldnt just take one unknown persons idea to switch without asking someone who actualy knows me no insult shiratobala.

    Shiratobala- okay if it was a pj why did you say it to me??

    #928407

    superme
    Member

    Artchill- thank you for responding 1) hat are those type of people? 2) I’m trying to get grip but so hurt and confused 3) I don’t even wantto end up tere (OTD) 4) yeh who that’s myproblem!

    #928408

    ShiraTobala
    Member

    thats true i shouldnt post my pjs lol whatever

    #928409

    ShiraTobala
    Member

    btw y should she insult me

    #928410

    truthsharer
    Member

    IF the whole class is actually on your side then you could up the action. When this teacher enters the room, the whole class can just get up and leave. That is one way for the staff to actually deal with a situation.

    #928411

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    One thing I can’t understand. Why would he go ballistic for a month if you did absolutely nothing wrong? Is there part of the story you’re not telling us?

    #928412

    SaysMe
    Member

    asktherabbi.org?

    Any rav you trust. Your family rav, another teacher, email thru aish to teen qs… If they can’t help they’ll direct you to someone who can.

    #928413

    superme
    Member

    shiratobala- huh sorry im just confused?? and its fine lol

    truthshafer- i think people would be scared to dothat no? and then i dont want this rav to have something to use against me…..

    DY- i promise you NOOOO im totally honest because i want help but no i didnt do anything thats y im so upset!! he even said to my parents that maybe he was being a little more picky on me (i dont get why) and so my parents asjed what did i actually do that u threw her out he responded i dont …..(stuttering hole time) exactly rember etc. and this is when i get annoyed by my parents why couldnt now they stick up and say something?!?! I PROMISE YOU I DID NOTHINGELSE I WOULDNT MIND SAYING HERE IF I DID BECAUSE YOU GUYS HAVE NO IDEA WHO I AM BUT I DID NOTHING 🙁

    #928414

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I have a feeling that this might be the root of his anger. Obviously, he didn’t randomly throw you out and bash you. He thought you did something. You don’t think you did anything wrong, so even your apologies were undoubtedly insincere; how could they not be, if you don’t think you did anything wrong! So you’re in another tough situation, even worse than the $50.

    Good luck getting through them.

    #928415

    superme
    Member

    DY- my whole point is that I didn’t do anything wrong ad when my parents asked him he stuttered and..(read above posts)…

    #928416

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I know you’re point. I find it highly unlikely that someone, even if he would be a kapdan and kaasan, would throw out a completely innocent student and then bash her. He obviously, at the time, thought you did something wrong.

    #928417

    superme
    Member

    The whole thing i dont think he should be in chinuch ecause I didnt do anything as I wrote above about his conversation with my parents..

    #928418

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    From what your describing, he should be institutionalized.

    His conversation with your parents, as you described it, means he forgot what you did, not that you did nothing.

    Was there something you did on a different occasion which made him upset?

    #928419

    JustHavingFun
    Participant

    Dear superme – I feel your pain, I agree the rebbi should reevaluate his career choices, I think the whole situation stinks, I am sorry you were humiliated so. However, it is unrealistic to expect HIM to make a public apology to right the wrong. This person was out of control, the administration is weak, and your parents can’t do any better than they’re doing.

    BUT….. here’s a reality of life: you can’t change anyone except for yourself. In order for you to grow into the wonderful, sensitive bas melech I am sure you are, YOU need to take the next step and learn the tools to grow past it. I think a competent therapist can work with you to work out the hurt and frustration, the shame and humiliation, and give you some coping strategies.

    Yeah, it’s not fair that the rebbi did this to you and I’m suggesting the YOU should get help. But, as I mentioned in my earlier post, carrying a grudge will only hurt YOU. Sometimes to get on with life we have to learn to move past it, and yes, forgive. When a really big wrong has been perpetrated on us, the more we nurture the anger and hurt, the worse effect it has on us. We can grow bitter, mean, and withdraw into ourselves OR we can learn from the situation and never treat others as that person treated you, become a bringer of peace and goodwill.

    It is not a fault of Judaism that this person was out of line. It is not the Torah that failed you. Don’t give up on G-d because people are weak. Daven. Ask G-d to help you through your pain. Ask Him to help this rebbi, the principal, and everyone you’d like to see suffering as you have. Ask Him to show you how to get past your pain.

    Since the others won’t change YOU are going to have to learn to be strong. That’s why I suggest a cognitive therapist for a few, maybe 8, sessions with the goal of letting go hurts and getting past them. You can do it. You are sensitive, a thinking person, and young enough to be flexible. Take this ugly experience, take this garbage, and turn it into an opportunity to flourish. If you try to see it the way I suggest, you will be able to handle the many hurts and insults that occur in life.

    #928420

    miritchka
    Member

    superme: How is the class going now? Is there only one class in your grade? Does he teach both? Maybe you can switch classes for his class? I’m not a big advocate of “running away” from your problems, but if this is going on for a month already and hurting you the way it is, it might be better for you to not be in that class.

    When i was in high school, we had a rebbe once, maybe twice a week. He taught both classes of my grade. He happens to be a fantastic rebbe, but if i was in your situation, I might’ve asked the principal if maybe she can arrange for A)the rebbe to write out the lesson plan for you so you can keep up but not attend his class. B) a classmate of yours who is a good note-taker to make copies of their notes and then you go over them with a friend.

    I really feel sorry for you and wish you all the best.

    #928421

    abcd2
    Participant

    you should find out who your teachers Rabbi is(where he davens)as this issue is more then you can handle, but needs to be addressed by someone your teacher respects.

    Look up the number in the phone book or walk over to the shule after tefilla After you describe the situation to his Rav perhaps suggest a meeting between him his Rav yourself and your parents.

    Also regarding your own questions if you feel comfortable enough you can speak to your own Rabbi or Rebbetzin of your Shule that is what they are their for.

    So sorry you are going through such a stressful time.

    P.S.If the above does not work there are a few people that you can talk to regarding your many questions and also will find a way to reach out to your teacher all the following are accessible and have listed numbers

    Rabbi Yaakov Salomon at Aish, Rabbi Wallerstein with Ohr Naava (you can just head over to Ohr naava if you live in brooklyn),

    Rabbi Yaakov/Jacob Jungreis

    Rabbi Chaim Cohen (Rov of ger shteible and a dayan)

    Rabbi Dovid Goldwasser

    Aside from all being well equipped to guide you they can also help facilitate a resolution, as the situation you describe is intolerable and should not last another day

    Hatzlacha!

    #928422

    WIY
    Member

    Superme

    I really think its best to let things go forgive and forget and move on when no permanent damage has been done. Honestly, what do you want to accomplish here in this thread and what do you want at this point with things being as they are?

    #928423

    superme
    Member

    DY- he spoke to my parents 3/4 days after the incident he doesn’t have short tem memory from that believe me he rembers everything!!!! And again I have no idea what I done ever to him could be last year I spoke inhis class etc but same like we all do so…??

    Just Having Fun- I HATEEE THAT QUOTE why should I get the help?? And is tere a special tefila ican say efore davenig for a good day,to understand why Hashem does these things, for gudiance etc?? And again I’m trying notto hold a grudge but it went to far I mean even when he walks past me in school he totally ignores me even if he says hi to the girl woth me…where’s his mentslechkite??

    Miritchka- I’m on vacation now and had midtermd so no classes for past 2 1/2 weeks um yes he teaches bothclasses. And answers to a) impossible class even when you sit through the class and I’m not so smart it’s really hard..so how am I supposed to do it out of class and for him an 85% is a pass!!! And thanxs

    Abcd2- he is the “rav” of the “shul” he attends. And thanks for the list any numbers for any of them? And can I be anonymous for any ofthem for now?? Thank you

    #928424

    abcd2
    Participant

    Despite your negative experiences Rabbis do not bite. These are topics that can be and should be discussed in an open conversation.

    As you are not yet an adult (and perhaps even if you were) A Rabbi or for that matter anyone would be reluctant to give you advice without knowing the whole story. Even as I wrote my post I must admit it is difficult to comment without knowing both sides of a story,however I am taking you at your word that your teacher is treating you in an unbecoming manner and embarrassing you.

    You will have to disclose your name,and they will keep it confidential.

    From the names above I would choose Rabbi Jungreis as he speaks very much about Emunah and is very non-judgemental and will work to resolve the situation and can help very much to repair the rift you are describing with your parents.Additionally the Rabbi and his Rebbetzin who can have advice for you as well have been involved in education(they had a Yeshiva) for fifty years as well as kiruv work. 718-951-0737

    My next suggestion would be contacting Ohr Naava as they can also try to serve as a strong base for you socially and spiritually or at the very least direct you the right way 718.OHR.NAAVA (718.647.6228)Rabbi Wallerstein and staff are great people

    You are to be commended for trying to seek help may you have much Mazel

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