What’s up with Kosher Shampoo?
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- This topic has 33 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 5 months ago by GAON.
September 26, 2017 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #1371555LightbriteParticipant
Are people voluntarily makpid on using kosher shampoo?
Is labeling shampoo “kosher,” more of a sales gimmick than anything else?
Thank you ☺September 27, 2017 9:53 am at 9:53 am #1371696
It is forbidden to derive “hanaah” from a mixture of Basar ViChalav. I dont think too many shampoos fall into this category, but, quite a few years ago there was a shampoo that contained yogurt and it also contained (as do many shampoos) some form of animal derivative that was deemed halachicly “basar”.
From that aspect, one would wish to know what his/her shampoo contained.September 27, 2017 10:20 am at 10:20 am #1371704
I only use OU certified shampoo.September 27, 2017 10:39 am at 10:39 am #1371770rkefratParticipant
Just was on a plane and a Chasidishe guy wanted some bottled water. apparently he couldn’t find the hechsher on the bottle – no it wasn’t flavored, so he put it down. We have raised a generation of people who can’t think – hechsher on water and on shampoo. Whats next – a hechsher on air?+September 27, 2017 10:41 am at 10:41 am #1371790
Why wouldn’t bottled water need a hechsher?September 27, 2017 10:56 am at 10:56 am #1371761Takes2-2tangoParticipant
I only use ou certified bleach. Years ago they tused to put whey and pitcha in it so we are very makpid even today to only use ou certifiedSeptember 27, 2017 10:57 am at 10:57 am #1371711
Don’t buy it!
In the context of looking for problems, there are well over 7,000 brands of shampoo on the market including well over 1500 varieties certified vegan (no meat or dairy derived products). Thus, your question is a great shailah to debate between musaf and mincha yom kippur afternoon if the d’var torah is boring or otherwise troll here in the coffee room. However, it would be irrational to presume the question is relevant in any other context.September 27, 2017 11:23 am at 11:23 am #1371828
It boils down to the very old machlokes of if Sicha Keshtiya:
The minhag/custom was to rely on the ones that it is permitted.
See Aruch Hashulchan YD (117:29) wherein he states, being that nowadays soaps are inedible, therefore it is acceptable to use soap even from animal fats ‘Lkol haShitos” all opinions.
We can sure assume that reading the ingredients (or finding out about the brand) is more than enough, even if you want to be machmir.
There is NO need for an Hechser, other than you want to feel good about it. Or, as some do for Passover.
Note – if you are really that stringent/machmir, you shouldn’t be eating from ANY American Hecsher, as they all rely on all kind of Kulos (Bitul, Bishul Akum, etc…). At least in this case you have a clear-cut Psak of the MB and Aruch Hashulchan that it is accepted as Minhag.September 27, 2017 11:23 am at 11:23 am #1371830
“Whats next – a hechsher on air?”
Don’t you know there are all kinds of bugs in the air? OF COURSE we need a Hechsher.
Bodek is selling Bug-Free oxygen….September 27, 2017 11:59 am at 11:59 am #1371858
“Whats next – a hechsher on air?”
Is that why so many people walk around nyc with filters over their mouth?September 27, 2017 11:59 am at 11:59 am #1371859
Demonstrating again the “greater fool theory” of marketing, there are several brands of water with some claim of “hashgacha”…..perhaps they are concerned about rumors that certains brands of bottled water are used for avodah zorah or the Chelmer Rebbe’s inyan regarding “mayim yisroel’ versus “mayim stam”September 27, 2017 12:05 pm at 12:05 pm #1371868
Why wouldn’t bottled water need a hechsher?September 27, 2017 12:18 pm at 12:18 pm #1371872
For the same reason we don’t put a plumba on a potatoSeptember 27, 2017 12:25 pm at 12:25 pm #1371874
Does your sink water have a Hechsher?
Pure water shouldn’t have anything else in the mix, and is not processed. Therefore, a hechsher is totally not necessary.
What does giving the hechsher indicate? -That no unkosher juice/oil/animal fat/ is mixed in? (even IF something was mixed in, in this case it is probably Lfgam and Butol..)
You typical product WITH a Hechsher has more Shaylos than any bottled water…September 27, 2017 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm #1371909
“For the same reason we don’t put a plumba on a potato ”
Do potatoes go through the same pipes at high temperatures (to kill the bacteria) at at he bottling plant that the grape flavored drink that could be yayin nesech goes through? Not all bottled water comes from a company that only bottles water.September 27, 2017 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm #1371910
I don’t mean to disparage anyone whose hashkafah dictates having some hashgacha on everything, just that for a large percentage of frum yidden (or at least many considering themselves frum) and who also believe they are reasonably observant on matters of kashruth, they wouldn’t think of going thirsty because they couldn’t find a bottle of spring water or filtered water with chassideshe hashgacha. Obviously, when you move to “flavored” waters, special energy drinks, etc, some hashgacha is definitely requiredSeptember 27, 2017 1:03 pm at 1:03 pm #1371913ubiquitinParticipant
“Are people …”
the answer to any question that begins Are people… IS almost always yes. There are over 7 billion people on Earth. soem of them do all sorts of strange things.
As to why people might only use koshe r shampoo , how many people there are etc these are questions that can be answeredSeptember 27, 2017 1:19 pm at 1:19 pm #1371925
Does milk need a hechsher for someone who is meikel to drink cholov stam?
Because the entire idea of cholov stam is to rely on the government’s “hashgacha” for milk without needing Yidden.September 27, 2017 1:56 pm at 1:56 pm #1371941
“Because the entire idea of cholov stam is to rely on the government’s “hashgacha” for milk without needing Yidden.”
Wrong – all the Gov regulations and inspections does, is take off the original Gezeros Chazal, fearing that the “cow” milk really contains milk from non-kosher animal species. (i.e. by verifying that there are no non-kosher species on-site).
The very concept of a Hecsher is not an actual Chiyuv, the Talmudic halacha is ‘Aid Achod Ne’emon be’Isurim”
Now for whatever the reason we need an Hechsher nowadays, applies to the above milk as well.
The Gov is NOT regulating its Kosher status, rather, the content of “cow milk”…September 27, 2017 3:26 pm at 3:26 pm #1372002shualiParticipant
@ Joseph – “Note – if you are really that stringent/machmir, you shouldn’t be eating from ANY American Hecsher, as they all rely on all kind of Kulos (Bitul, Bishul Akum, etc…). At least in this case you have a clear-cut Psak of the MB and Aruch Hashulchan that it is accepted as Minhag.”
1) Bitul is NOT a kulah. It is a din d’Oraisa. Rav Moshe ztzvk”l, I believe writes that anyone who does not rely on bitul (when permitted to do so) is not a maamin b’Toras Moshe.
2) No hashhachah is meikil to allow Bishul Akum. Bishul Akum is NOT a chumra about which one can be meikel. It is a din d’Rabbonon. There are various opinions and viable options as to how to accomplish bishul Yisroel, but bishul Akum is always prohibited.September 27, 2017 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #1372060
bishul Akum is always prohibited
I’m pretty sure this is not true. If I’m not mistaken, it’s only prohibited for foods which are oleh al shulchan m’lochim.
Canned tuna is a good example of something which is often bishul akum, but still considered acceptable by many.September 27, 2017 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #1372264
Bottom line: Yes I know people in Jerusalem that do not use shampoo w/o a Hechsher, BUT those very people eat only Bedatz Hecsher, they Kasher their own chickens, which they buy only from certain selected shochtim and butchers, bake their own Matzos etc. and won’t eat anything cooked outside their house.
Kol haKavod to them!
If you eat from any typical Hecsher, and anything that your local grocery/supermarket sells – using shampoo with a hechsher only makes no sense!September 27, 2017 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #1372210
My point regarding “Bitul” is that a) in any case there is a Bitul here and is no diff than what they regularly do ..b) Yes, there are ramifications on how and what “bitul” should be applied, we are not discussing the typical ‘bitul’ case. e.g we know “Ain meVatlin Issur leKatchilah”sometimes Hefsed Merubah is used to be maikol etc.
“Bishul Akum” – I’m not saying there is actual “bishul Akum” but there a lots of Kulos in terms of Bishul Akum. e.g. relying on a pilot lights etc. which is constantly used in Hechsherim that are far off premises.
My main point is, that the way modern processing, globalization (ing. coming from all ends of the globe) and the nature of the food industry is setup, there are always difficulties that arise, and Heterim and Kulos are constantly used in order to produce. Ask anyone involved, I am no expert.
So if you want to really be Machmir on something like using Shampoo (or water) have a good look on what you are eating first. If you won’t use any shampoo – don’t eat any commercially processed food as well.September 27, 2017 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #1372347
“oleh al shulchan m’lochim”
Correct, and how and what we consider oleh al shulchan m’lochim’ has always been debatable. Like canned food, some hold its oleh al shulchan m’lochim’ and is considered Bishul akum. Tuna (and sardines), I recall, has diff problems with the Bishul Akum the way its processed.September 27, 2017 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #1372368Jersey JewParticipant
Shtusim v’havolim! There’s NO reason for hashgocha on soap and shampoo. It’s a dover pogem!!!September 27, 2017 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #1372369brooklynerParticipant
Very Lumdish but you obviously haven’t learned the basics of basar bechalav. See shach 87 s”k 20 who permits shampooSeptember 27, 2017 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #1372371brooklynerParticipant
and I’m talking to apushatayid first commentSeptember 27, 2017 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #1372423LubavitcherParticipant
Because if I’m kinda hungry shampoo is a good choice to make and of course it’s gotta be kosher
😂😂😂😂😂September 27, 2017 10:35 pm at 10:35 pm #1372479👑RebYidd23Participant
Some people chew their hair, and some foods have additives derived from human hair.September 28, 2017 12:43 pm at 12:43 pm #1372752
“Shtusim v’havolim!. It’s a dover pogem!!!”
Well, while I agree that Hashgacha is totally unnecessary, there is definitely a makom leHachmir where we know its derived from animal fat, according to the M”B. (see end of siman 326 B”H). You can argue that its totally Nifsal MeAchilas Kelev as the Aruch HaShulchan does, but in any case, where the ingredients does not indicate any fat etc, it is more than enough even leHachmir.
Unless you chew your hair like Reb Yid and 770…September 28, 2017 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm #1372989
“and I’m talking to apushatayid first comment”
The shayla with the shampoo that contained yogurt was presented to the Rosh Yeshiva at the time who ruled that it should not be used. Perhaps you heard of the Rosh Yeshiva, someone named Rav Moshe Feinstein Z’l. Feel free to rely on your own lomdus and knowledge of yoreh deah. We relied on his.
“Obviously, when you move to “flavored” waters, special energy drinks, etc, some hashgacha is definitely required”
And since the average consumer has zero knowledge of what is bottled where, and what goes on at the bottling plant, it is foolish to disparage the hechsher on a bottle of water. It may be true that in many situations no hechsher is required, but, sometimes, companies use a kashrus symbol as a marketing symbol more than anything else. they are already paying, say the OU, to supervise a plant and use their symbol on all kosher products, that they will use it on those products that dont need it.September 28, 2017 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #1372999
What is reason that many folks, who insist on a hechsher even where it isn’t strictly required, nevertheless drink beer without a hechsher?September 28, 2017 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #1373042👑RebYidd23Participant
Who are these many folks? And some may hold that beer is meant for bathing.October 1, 2017 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #1376243yid18Participant
I looked at my shampoo , Head and Shoulders. There is no whey or animal derivative.October 1, 2017 10:59 pm at 10:59 pm #1376313
was the shampoo edible?
I figure, because of tradition ; through out the ages, Jews always bought beer by their local peasants, so even though the entire food industry changed, and many different things need a hasgacha, beer and liquor stayed the same as the past (perhaps that a leChayim should always he available at hand)October 1, 2017 11:42 pm at 11:42 pm #1376344
GAON, that doesn’t make much sense, IMHO. If the entire food chain changed in recent times so that food items (even water!) that halachicly need no hechsher now people require hechsheirim for, beer should be even more important to have a hechsher.October 2, 2017 12:00 am at 12:00 am #1376370
I looked at my shampoo , Head and Shoulders. There is no whey or animal derivative.
No whey? No way!October 2, 2017 7:10 am at 7:10 am #1376385
When it comes to beer and liquor, nothing needs to make sense. But the fact is, this is how it has always beer. As long gas some major shailoh doesn’t pop up regarding beer, people will drink without a hecsher.October 2, 2017 8:49 am at 8:49 am #1376480
And water didn’t never need a hechsher?October 2, 2017 12:47 pm at 12:47 pm #1377041
“was the shampoo edible?”
does it matter if it is question of whether it is muttar biha’nah?October 2, 2017 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm #1377484
It certainly does matter. As with all P’sak stories, we need to know the entire case with every minute detail to really know what exactly Rav Moshe paskened.
Please see Aruch Hashulchan YD (117:29) that if any soap is Nifsal m’Achilas Kelev, it is permitted according to all. It is no diff than Chametz on Pesach.
Rav Moshe generally Paskened according to the Aruch haShulchan (even over the M”B).
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