What's with the non-Shabbos cholent?

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  • #616621

    flatbusher
    Participant

    I may be old-fashioned but I always felt that cholent was a special dish for Shabbos seudah when you can’t have hot food. Yet, over the years it has made regular appearance on Thursday night and more recently a staple at a shalom zachor. I still feel it should be unique for its original purpose. What say you?

    #1111481

    Joseph
    Participant

    I agree. But to give them credit, at least they’re not one of those who actually don’t like cholent. Those types should check their maternal yichus.

    #1111482

    screwdriverdelight
    Participant

    Those who eat cholent Shabbos night or during the week should make sure to make the day s’udah bigger than the night s’udah, or find a different food to designate specifically for the day.

    #1111483

    Josh31
    Participant

    Likewise, white shirts need to be reserved for Shabbos, Yom Tov and weddings.

    #1111484

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Or you can wear a white shirt all week and a different, nicer white shirt on Shabbos and Yom Tov.

    #1111485

    B1g B0y
    Participant

    Are you suggesting that yeshiva Bachurim should not be wearing white shirts during the week???!!!

    #1111486

    golfer
    Participant

    Shoimu Shamayim!

    Is this a bad dream?

    Or is this the next Kol Korei about to plaster the neighborhood?

    Are the chashuva Poskim of the CR about to assur Friday night chulnt? Just now when the long Friday nights are upon us?

    Oy.

    #1111487

    flatbusher
    Participant

    Well, I don’t know about anyone else but I do have white shirts that I reserve for Shabbos and yom tov and white shirts for weekday (though I also wear colored shirts).

    Perhaps the answer is that cholent no longer has the same status as a special maaichel for Shabbos as there are other foods that can be kept warm that may appeal more to some people. Or they don’t feel anything special about having warm food Shabbos morning.

    I am not suggesting assuring Friday night cholent, simply bemoaning the fact that by serving it other than Shabbos morning it loses its chashivus as a special Shabbos morning food.

    #1111488

    Josh31
    Participant

    I am not suggesting assuring white shirts during the week, simply bemoaning the fact that by wearing them other than on Shabbos, Yom Tov or at weddings they lose their chashivus as a special Shabbos mode of dress.

    #1111489

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @joseph

    I don’t like cholent. I’m not fond of overcooked mush made of cheap cuts of meat and lots of starch.

    As for my maternal yichus, my great great grandparents arrived in NY from Munchen, Bavaria(now Germany) in 1868. They were merchants on one side and doctors on the other. They did not eat what was considered peasant food by Yekkahs. A soup kept warm on the blech or a pot au feu hanging from a hook in the hearth over the coals was the hot dish for Shabbos lunch.

    Not every frum ashkenazi Jew in America who went to Yeshiva is from the Austro-Hungarian or Russian Empire territories. We are also not all from families where Yiddish was an acceptable tongue. My Oma would cringe when she heard someone speak Yiddish, asking how such a beautiful language could have been ruined by introducing those slavic words and accents.

    There are no ‘skys’ or ‘Itzes’ in my maternal line, just Jacobs, Schwarz and Braun.

    B”H they came to America in 1868 for economic opportunity, they never had to escape pogroms or worse, but were able to establish the network that provided support for the latecomers from the Pale.

    #1111490

    Joseph
    Participant

    Were they Shomer Shabbos from when arrived in America in 1868 through yourself?

    #1111491

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    CT-I’m also not fond of overcooked mush made of cheap cuts of meat and lots of starch, but I love cholent. Feel free to eat it or not eat it, feel free to use different ingredients, but why do you insist on being so offensive in your wording? It is not just unnecessary but rude as well.

    #1111492

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    It’s one thing if he were talking about gefilte fish…

    #1111493

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Your ancestors came to the US in 1868?

    I thought I was a Mayflower jew as my ancestors came to the US around 1900

    #1111494

    flatbusher
    Participant

    CTlawyer: I don’t know what you consider a cheap cut of meat for the cholent but there is no meat that I would imagine many people reading this would consider cheap. The ingredients of the cholent are whatever you want to make it, so you can put in flanken ($13 a poundor more) or some other cut, and as for the starch, bean and legumes in general are healthy ingredients. Sounds like you had bad experience with cholent

    #1111495

    Joseph
    Participant

    ZD: By 1900 there was already massive influxes of Russian Jews immigrating to the US.

    #1111496

    feivel
    Participant

    Our recipie: short ribs ($15/lb), lima beans, whole grain barley, a little olive oil, onions, fresh garlic, spices, idaho potatoes.

    #1111497

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I know jews were arriving in massive amounts in 1900. Jews really started arriving in the 1880’s after the assasination of the Tsar when the pograms and anti-semitism got really bad

    #1111498

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @joseph

    Most, but not all My direct lineage is all, some cousins branched OTD, but no intermarriages, conversions, etc.

    @Syag

    Cheap, doesn’t mean inexpensive. It has to do with quality. The fat content necessary to sustain 20 hours of cooking is found in cheap cuts of meat. A lean quality steak would not be appropriate for overnight, wet cooking.

    My words are not rude or offensive, but a qualitative observation of the fatty meat, potatoes, barley, bean combinations that are served as Cholent.

    It is possible to make a quality stew or pot au feu that is not gloppy and has lots of root vegetables instead of all the starches used to extend the cholent.

    @zahavasdad

    Anyone whose family came through Ellis Island are newcomers. Old-timers came through Castle Garden at the Battery. As a youth, I remember my great-great uncle (paternal side-Litvak) referring to a crowd/tumult as ‘ah regular castlegard’

    @flatbusher and Feivel

    again, cheap doesn’t mean inexpensive. It is only the cheaper cuts with lots of fat and connective tissue that can stand the lengthy cooking of a cholent.

    When I was a child Brisket and hanger steak were cheap cuts. Today, because of demand for BBQ or fajitas, they are expensively priced cheap cuts of meat.

    #1111499

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    CTlaywer

    The term used was “greener”, but unfortuantly many jews who came to the US before World War I arent so connected anymore

    #1111500

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @zahavasdad

    ‘greener’ ‘greenhorn’ still in use.

    My ex-wife was the child of Yekkah Yordim who came to the USA in 1955, having been in Palestine/Israel from 1939 on.

    They were definitely greenhorns. They arrived by air at Idlewid.

    The pecking order of who arrived when is definitely still in play. My ex-MIL who arrived in 1955 has no use for the new Yordim arriving since the 80s.

    #1111501

    Joseph
    Participant

    CTLawyer, would you consider your family snobbish?

    #1111502

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Is CTlawyer anymore snobbish that the video once posted on YWN where someone called Michael Savage and asked him if he ever ate chulent

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/ywn-videos/270484/listen-chasidic-caller-tells-talk-radio-host-michael-savage-to-eat-chulent.html

    #1111503

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @joseph

    No, I take out the trash, mow the lawn, shovel snow and we don’t have a maid.

    I work hard and use what I make to provide for my family.

    I have no reason to hide my maternal Yekkah roots or paternal Litvak roots. The original comment about someone not liking Cholent asked about maternal yichus.

    #1111504

    feivel
    Participant

    I see.

    So by cheap you mean expensive

    By overcooked you mean properly cooked.

    By mush you mean not mush.

    And by starch you mean fiber, protein, and complex carbohydrates.

    You should be a lawyer. Or politician.

    Maybe both?

    #1111505

    feivel
    Participant

    All you needed to say was: “I don’t like cholent”

    A lawyer once told me: “just say what’s necessary”

    #1111506

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I like cholent.

    #1111507

    feivel
    Participant

    I bet you make it with pearled barley. Pure starch.

    I use whole grain barley.

    #1111508

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Why do you assume that I make it?

    #1111509

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Do you also assume that I make the beer I drink with it?

    #1111510

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    And that I use pearled hops?

    #1111511

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    You don’t make cholent?

    #1111512

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    And you also don’t make beer?

    #1111513

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    And if you make beer, don’t you use pearled barley? It’s not the best, but it can work.

    #1111514

    feivel
    Participant

    I don’t like beer. I’m not fond of drinking the refuse liquids of fungi and bacteria infecting dead vegetable matter.

    #1111515

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    RY, why do you assume that I don’t make cholent?

    #1111516

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    And why do you assume that I don’t make beer?

    #1111517

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Feivel, you’re a fungi.

    #1111518

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @feivel

    When the poster mentions those who don’t like cholent and their maternal Yichus, answering ‘I don’t like cholent’ and not mentioning my maternal roots is not enough of an answer.

    I like my red meat red, not brown throughout, thus overnight cooking in a cholent is not what I consider ‘properly cooked.’ I would not expect you to eat extremely rare beef or raw in the case of Steak Tartare, but I do.

    I have explained, I use ‘cheap’ in the sense of quality, not price tag. cheap goods can be overpriced, it depends on merchant and demand.

    The starches I refer to are potatoes, barley, and beans…common cholent ingredients. They form a tiny part of my diet.

    I don’t make and/or serve cholent in my home, I din’t grow up with it. My wife did and doesn’t miss it.

    I don’t hide the facts that I am both a lawyer and involved in politics.

    #1111519

    feivel
    Participant

    Yes, I am

    So are you.

    #1111520

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    You have to know which beers to drink, Most large scale brewerly beers like Budweiser , Coors etc are garbage, you have to either drink microbrewlly like Sam Adams or imported beers especially from Belgium.

    #1111521

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    thank you feivel, for saving me the trouble.

    #1111522

    feivel
    Participant

    ZD

    your comprehensive knowledge of and strong opinions on nearly every topic mentioned in this forum is really quite amazing.

    #1111523

    Sam2
    Participant

    I can’t believe how grossly distorted the statement of the Baal Hamaor about someone who doesn’t like Cholent/Hamin has become. Seriously. It’s just not Pshat.

    #1111524

    takahmamash
    Participant

    Why eat cholent at all on Friday night? You just ate a full meal, and now you need cholent to top it off? No wonder so many frum men are fat.

    #1111525

    flatbusher
    Participant

    taka: I guess they take their neshama yeseirah seriously. I also wonder why, especially at a shalom zachor, cholent is served right after people had a full seudah. Yes, no wonder many frum men are fat.

    CT: Your explanation of “cheap” makes me think you should go into politics.

    #1111526

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Frum men are fat not because of Chulent, but because of the general lack of exercise and healthy eating. Shuckeling is not exercise, no matter what your chavrusa says

    #1111527

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Is there any actual evidence that frum people are fatter/unhealthier than the rest of the population?

    #1111528

    Joseph
    Participant

    No. There is evidence that Americans are overweight but not frum Americans any more than others. But the people (including a number of yarmulka wearing folks) who look at frum people with an evil eye, find bad wherever they see frum.

    #1111529

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Diets high in fats and Oils and low in vegetables are a receipe for a disaster and too much eating is encouraged on Shabbos and Yom Tov

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