When asked Shiduch info: Do I have to tell the girls side that my friend smokes?

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  • #601260

    davidz
    Member

    I was recently asked Shidduch information on a boy that I know, and as we were completing our conversation, I was asked if there is anything else that the girls side should know about. My question is When called about a Shidduch…Are you obligated to mention that a boy smokes, when you know that it would probably be a factor on the girls side (which it is most of the time)….?

    #838309

    Toi
    Participant

    no.

    #838310

    Think first
    Member

    No. Because that is something the girl can ask the boy herself if she cares and one isn’t supposed to say something that the person themselves won’t deny or tell, for example if u know a boy is on some sort of medication but will tell the girl about it at the right time (most rabbanim say 3rd date that’s between getting to know the person and liking the person) then one isn’t supposed to say because that may stop them from going out and in reality the girl may be ok with it once she has the full picture.

    #838311

    dash™
    Participant

    If they ask you.

    #838312

    ✡onegoal™
    Participant

    It’s not even a question. Are you another troll?

    #838313

    HolyMoe
    Participant

    Yes you should.

    Smoking boys try to hide their habit.

    Most girls I know will not consider a boy that smokes and must know about this Chissaron.

    #838314

    here i go
    Member

    i’m not exactly your local orthodox rabbi but here’s my personal opinion… not always will a girl find smoking to be so terrible and if it’s on her list of NoNos she should make a point to ask directly… if it’s something that she thinks will make it or break it, she’d probably make it her business to find out so i don’t think you need to mention it under “anything else”

    #838315

    skiaddict
    Member

    No dont unless asked specifically, because girls know that most boys smoke, and if you mention it specifically, she will think he is a heavy chain smoker or something worst than it is.

    Girls know that boys smoke and just expect them to stop when married- not that its an issue before they are married, most girls dont care about that.

    #838316

    cherrybim
    Participant

    “Are you obligated to mention that a boy smokes, when you know that it would probably be a factor on the girls side”

    That’s like saying,”Are you obligated to mention that a boy is not always shomer shabbos and he eats a little pork on the side”

    #838317

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    cherrybim: How is smoking comparable to chillul Shabbos and eating treif?

    #838318

    DyafMaven
    Member

    According to many rabbionim now days smoking is a major issur may even be a issur desorsah to start. Quiting once you started is another issue I went to whole shiur on problem of smoking today.

    Many boys I know do not smoke and the ones that do a lot of them try very hard to hide from there wives or tell their wives they are going to quit. I personally believe smoking in a way is issur desorsah because you cannot purposely cause yourself harm.

    In my opinion you should not tell the girl that he smokes but he should be willing to admit it if she does ask. Because I know many guys would deny it. It beginning trust matters a lot.

    #838319

    aries2756
    Participant

    Woa. Do you know the girl personally? Do you know that this is an issue with the girl? How do you know that the girl’s father doesn’t smoke. Can you imagine giving information to the father and saying “BTW, he smokes” and the father saying “so do I”.

    No, unless they ask, it is not your place to say unless you know the girl personally and know this is a pet peeve of hers. She will find out about it soon enough in addition if it is bashert he can quit or she will find a way to work around it. If it is NOT bashert, there will be another reason she will find that he is not for her, or she will find out on the first or second date and it won’t be your achrius.

    #838320

    chaimss
    Participant

    “girls know that most boys smoke”

    What??? I’ve been in Yeshiva for almost ten years and I assure you, most boys do NOT smoke. There are those that do, yes, but it’s a minority, not a majority.

    #838321

    RABBAIM
    Participant

    Any info which may be seen as negative we must answer when asked, but should not offer info.

    Be careful if you are doing the asking- ask DOES HE SMOKE AT ALL? Do not ask IS HE A SMOKER as that is inviting interpretation.. What is a smoker?? cigs, 10? A pack?? Two?? Fell in once…….. and she got married. and he quit.

    #838322

    apushatayid
    Participant

    It is NOT something a girl can find out on her own, if a guy deliberately wants to hide it until after an engagement or marriage. It is not like a pronounced limp or a lisp that she will figure out rather quickly.

    I don’t see any reason why it would be assur to tell a girl if you knew for certain that a guy smoked. The guy doesn’t feel there is anything wrong with it if he smokes publicly.

    #838323

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “because girls know that most boys smoke,”

    You would have more credibilityif you claimed most yeshiva boys will be going to midnight mass, tomorrow night. Your statement surely ranks as one of the single most spurrious and ridiculous claims ever made on this site.

    #838324

    miritchka
    Member

    OneOfMany: I dont think that smoking is coparable to chillul shabbos or eating treif but i believe cherrybim may have meant that smoking kills and therefore oiver ‘v’nishmartem m’od’. I am one of those girls, in fact part of the majority of girls, that did not/does not want a boy that smokes. I wouldnt even consider a boy that smokes and would feel very bad about hurting a boy’s feelings that i went out with, without knowing he smokes.

    So to the OP, yes, i believe that because so many girls feel its terrible to smoke and dont want themselves or their children to live with the dangers of second hand smoke, it is imiportant to mention. Especially nowadays when covering the scent and hiding all hints of cigarettes are much simpler, girls should be told about it so that heartbreak can be avoided.

    #838325

    kollel_wife
    Participant

    The Halachos of these things are very complicated. It’s really best to ask a shailah. Some things an individual may be makpid on, and then there are things most people are makpid on.

    For example if a person has always told you, I don’t want a shidduch if the person has a mental illness in the family. You may have more of an obligation to tell them initially than someone else who should perhaps be told later on.

    If you’re lucky enough to have time to get back to them and didn’t yet reveal this information – then go ask a shailah.

    #838326

    BTGuy
    Participant

    Hi Davidz.

    Check it out with a prominent rabbi.

    I would strongly hope you would be permitted.

    Smoking is a serious health hazard for all those around a smoker.

    In any case, she should know. If she is ok with it, then fine. Secondly, if he plans on hiding it, then he is starting off with the shoe on the wrong hand, and that is not fair to her.

    He may end up quitting smoking, too. Who knows?

    In any case, the smoking issue out in the open is the right thing for all reasons. I cannot think of a good reason to keep this secretive. It is an important variable in the dating world. But, again, run it by your rabbi.

    #838327

    mytake
    Member

    I’d ask my Rav, considering that this can be a very big issue to many girls (sometimes even a dealbreaker).

    I’m with BTGuy on this one.

    #838328

    Bar Shattya
    Member

    To rule out someone who smokes, would be shallow. To assist in this crime, would be accomplice. Therefore, you should definitely lie to conceal it, as much as you can- as long as you won’t get caught.

    If they say they saw him smoking, you say it was just a chosson cigarette. After all, if fat girls can eat food at a wedding, why can’t guys smoke at a wedding. And if fat girls can lie about their ages, then why can’t we allow smoking- which is not even part of who they are.

    It is very sad that girls today judge others only by the outside, and not by what is within. Within their heart (not lungs).

    This is what they should teach in seminary, instead of all that navi that my illustrated brother popa_bar_abba knows better than them anyway.

    #838329

    BTGuy
    Participant

    Hi Bar Shattya.

    Ruling out someone who smokes is the perfect right of the person deciding who to date. Why is it shallow for someone to not want to date a smoker? Smoker/nonsmoker happens to be a big deal to people in dating, the workplace, public events, malls,…etc.

    I believe the point was if someone smokes, is that something the other person should be made aware of.

    There are perfectly fine people who smoke. But this is not a matter of the guy likes to wear blue ties as opposed to white and black ties.

    Who would not want to know if the person they are considering for marriage is a smoker or not? Some won’t rule them out. Some will, and that is their right.

    Off the record, smoking is not such a benign thing for a lot of reasons, and will be a very noticeable and intrusive component of sharing their lives together.

    The fact that smoking (not the person, necessarily) is very repulsive, annoying, uncomfortable, unclean, and dangerous to nonsmokers and smokers, is not something that can be swept under the carpet during dating. Let the other person know and they can take it from there.

    It is not a matter of judging. Smoking is a tangible annoyance to many people and for that reason has been outlawed in public places. So what is so difficult to imagine someone does not want that in their living room for the rest of their lives? Or around their children?

    Frankly, smoking is such a known sakana now, you have to somewhat ignorant in thinking on your own to take up smoking. It is deadly, chas v’shalom, in over 70 known ways, and now they are finding it is radioactive from the radon where the plants are grown.

    I dont want to hear the ‘relaxing’ argument either, as only those who think smoking is ok would accept such a lame justification. There are smokers who know it is bad and want to quit if they could. Those who see good things in smoking are off the hook, period.

    #838330

    Bar Shattya
    Member

    Who would not want to know if the person they are considering for marriage is a smoker or not? Some won’t rule them out. Some will, and that is their right.

    You don’t have the right to be so shallow at other people’s expense, and expect me to play along. If you say you will only marry a girl who wears size 8 shoes, do you have that right? Do I have to play along with your stupidities?

    Besides, this is not about rights. You have the right to not get married altogether. This is about what is the correct. And what is good good for klal yisroel. And what Hashem wants.

    Maybe if you would think about what Hashem wants, once in a while, just for kicks, you might realize this.

    It is not a matter of judging. Smoking is a tangible annoyance to many people and for that reason has been outlawed in public places. So what is so difficult to imagine someone does not want that in their living room for the rest of their lives? Or around their children?

    It sounds to me like you are judging. Lots of things are illegal. Shechita is illegal in many countries, and bris milah was almost illegal in California.

    This is what chanuka is all about. You get your morality from the yevanim, apparently. A hellenist incarnate.

    I hope you’ll excuse me if I take my cues from the maccabis.

    I dont want to hear the ‘relaxing’ argument either, as only those who think smoking is ok would accept such a lame justification.

    The fact is, that most people who have tried smoking, and understand how relaxing it is, do agree with this justification. Maybe you should walk in their shoes, before you start ripping their shoes to pieces.

    The bottom line is, that you haven’t even addressed my main point. The important thing in a shidduch is who the person is inside- not that your living room will smell a bit, and you will need to buy air fresheners.

    There are many things which can bother someone a little bit about a spouse, but I would that yisroel kedoshim would see past a few extra pounds, or a little bit of smoke, or being a couple months older, and see the person inside.

    So what is so difficult to imagine someone does not want that in their living room for the rest of their lives?

    Your living room will not raise your children. Your husband will. Your living room will not learn with your children, and take them to shul. Your husband will.

    Maybe you should be willing to trade your stupid clean living room for a good yiddishe lichtige freileche mishpacha.

    #838331

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Just the fact that people consider replying to shidduch inquiries with lies makes me question the whole process (keeping silent is in effect the same )

    #838332

    Toi
    Participant

    for those who say that most bochurim dont smoke. yes, if your looking at chofetz chaim in yihupitz then fine. but most bochurim on the yeshivish spectrum will take a cigarette now and then and at least a third smoke rather heavily. for it to be a concern for shidduchim- fine, you can also decide youd rather not marry someone with a limp, but to rule it out entirely is jst dumb. blame the girls for their own shidduch crisis.

    #838333

    Chacham
    Participant

    toi- I still believe most don’t smoke.

    Bar Shattya- do you think someone wants to marry your mishmar dude who doesn’t take showers ever and stinks even if he will bring up fine children? Some people can’t take being near the smell. Another reason why some won’t want someone to smoke is because it is a certain personality of people who smoke. Also it is against halacha according to many poskim. Do you thinks they want someone who shaves with a razor?

    #838334

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    The majority of bachurim do not smoke. But it’s a ????? ????? – a significant minority.

    #838335

    Chacham
    Participant

    OK, there is also a significant minority of bachurim who don’t take showers. so for some people they want to avoid those people. You can’t have any taanos on them.

    I remember the first day of the zman i made up to meet my second seder chavrusa in the yeshivas CR and the first thing he said to me after asking me if i am chacham is if i mind if he goes to take a smoke. I told him I will rather getting started right away. After this minor disagreement he decided he does not want to be my chavrusa and that shoft only lasted one day. (bh i have a chavrusa but i think this guy is still learning by himself)

    #838336

    davidz
    Member

    Over Shabbos I asked a prominent Rov in Flatbush for a response to the question.

    He responded that…. ten years ago it would have been a totally different scenario and he would have said it should absolutely not be brought up, because even if the parents request the info. odds are that the daughter would be able to work it out, if the boy carried all other traits she was looking for. However nowadays, since we can confidently say that over 51% of girls consider smoking a serious issue, therefore if you believe that there’s even a slight chance that it may affect the marriage, not only do you have a right to share the info, you actually have an obligation to.

    #838337

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    Chacham –

    LOL. I’m sure he found a great chavrusa who doesn’t mind that he smokes.

    #838338

    Chacham
    Participant

    yityningwut- Well as far as i am concerned nobody ever told me he has a chavrusa. I guess if you know him better than i do you can tell me he does.

    #838339

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    Hmmm. I’m going to put my money on it that I do and he does.

    #838340

    Chacham
    Participant

    alright- we are you putting down this money? when and where can i come pick it up?

    #838341

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    ??? ??? ??????

    #838342

    apushatayid
    Participant

    So “ocassional smoking” is ok (ask any cardiologist or oncologist for their opinion)? What about ocassional unfiltered internet use? Ocassional ditching seder for a morning of sleeping in? Please explain why it might be different than ocassional smoking?

    #838343

    real-brisker
    Member

    apy – The girl can ask him herself if he smokes.

    #838344

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Sure she can, she can also ask him all the silly superficial questions peope ask the shadchan and references too. There is a reason people ask or expect to be told certain basic info, so as not to waste anyones time. I think this falls into that category.

    #838345

    davidz
    Member

    real-brisker: “The girl can ask him herself if he smokes.”

    That’s exactly the issue at hand….. there are certain things which should not go as far as having the girl ask about a certain issue, but rather the shadchan tell the girl beforehand…. How unfair it is to have girls go out with boy after boy, only to get burned out due to the fact that they find issues which individuals found unimportant to mention.

    #838346

    Health
    Participant

    More people should smoke -it’s good for business! 😉

    #838347

    real-brisker
    Member

    davidz -If he feels its important for the girl to know, then whats your question. Of course the shadchan can/should say. Your question only is when the boy is trying to make a secret out of it.

    #838348

    apushatayid
    Participant

    If the boy is trying to hide it then don’t bother telling the girl he is a smoker, he has a bigger problem you must tell her, he is a liar.

    #838349

    real-brisker
    Member

    apy – Isn’t that what this thread is about, people trying to hide it?

    #838350

    Bar Shattya
    Member

    it is a prerequisite in todays shidduch market to be a liar. there is a crisis going on, people. you must lie about anything and everything that will convince a boy to go out with you. lie about age. lie about weight. lie about dress size. lie about middos and all important things too. I fthe boy is a liar then he is going to fit right in. The perfect candidate.

    On a side note, coincidentally, earlier today I was sitting and pondering how cool it would be to smoke. My friends are right. It really is cool.

    #838351

    More people should smoke -it’s good for business!

    You’re right, it supports the tobbaco farmers in brazil, the lawyers, and the doctors. Best of all it prunes off the unproductive old folks, that’s real Medicare Reform

    #838352

    davidz
    Member

    Bar Shattya

    I was extremely tempted to respond to your baseless statement, but I realized that it would be worthless to give you any credibility at all.

    #838353

    Toi
    Participant

    smoking is cool. shadchan is roshei teivos- sheker dover, kesef notel. girls manage to ascertain if a bochur is in line with her views on movies and goyish music (so they can enjoy those together after marriage), she can figure out smoking,too.

    #838354

    This is a halacha question, not an opinion question.

    When is it “loshon hora” to tell?

    When is it “lo sa’amod al dam reyacha” not to tell?

    Is there a “right time” and “wrong time” (before they first meet, or after x number of dates) to tell?

    Are there other factors to include in the “tell” decision (i.e. he promises to quit, she has asthma, etc.)?

    “davidz”s approach – ask a shaila – is the correct one.

    #838355

    Bar Shattya
    Member

    davidz

    Stop crying and admit the pitiful state of the union. Just because you dont like it, doesnt make it not so. By lying about the current status of the crisis you morph into exactly that person whom you are trying to condemn. Your pants are indeed on fire. Oh another one with a chazkas kashrus has become a Shakran D’oraysa. Woe is us. Woe to the nation of Israel.

    #838356

    Bar Shattya- You and pba are waaayyy to obsessed with skinny girls. I think it would be pretty funny if you marry a skinny girl and she gets fat after her first baby

    #838357

    Bar Shattya
    Member

    What a sick joke. I think it would be funny if you marry and then he/she “starts” smoking after you get married. hahahaha so funny.

    Mods its not fair whatrutalkingabt is making jokes as not funny as dead baby jokes. sickening.

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