When did Chabad become a Kiruv oriented Chassidus?

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  • #1728715

    Haimy
    Participant

    Chabad today is synonymous with outreach to non-affiliated Jews, when did Chabad become focused on Kiruv?

    #1728820

    lakewhut
    Participant

    The chassisus movement which started with the Ba’al Shem Tov, is kind of Kiruv. Chabad does it in a different way. With them, concerns about who should be the rebbe isn’t the big issue.

    #1728842

    Chossid
    Participant

    One of the main factors Chabad chassidus is based on is what the Bal Shem Tov said אימתי כאתי מר, לכשיפוצו מעינותיך חוצה
    Spreading yeddishkiet and chassidus through out the world.

    #1729073

    Moshe22
    Participant

    Chabad is concerned with one thing: revealing Hashem in the world.

    This is the thread that runs through the intellectual study of Chassidus (so we should see Hashem in the world) and that Jews should do mitzvos (that Hashem’s will should be actualized in this world.

    That is also why (real) Chabad is obsessed with Moshiach:
    מלאה הארץ דעה את ה’ כמים לים מכסים

    #1729086

    Why are people so OCD about Chabad?

    Why the need to know how Chabad holds about xyz? Why Chabad does abc? When did Chabad start doing… ?

    I, a fully trained Kop Doktar diagnose this as OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE BEHAVIOUR!

    #1729093

    I wonder if somewhere there is a chabad coffee room with a thread: “When did Litvaks start doing kiruv?” You know why this thread doesn’t exist? Because we are obsessed with them but they aren’t obsessed with us.

    #1729141

    Joseph
    Participant

    Mr. Rebbetzin: Why are you attacking Litvaks as being obsessed? I’m sure you wouldn’t want your affiliated kehila attacked

    #1729145

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Chabad forums are 99% a bash-fest on other yidden, primarily gedolim.

    I would be interested in when Litvaks started doing kiruv. For Chabad, l’maaseh I think the answer is when the last Rebbe took power. Most of the stuff about it happening with previous Rebbes seems like an attempt to make their history backwards compatible.

    #1729139

    The prime mission of CHabad is “Uforatzta” – spreading the teaching of chassidus. The purpose and goal of their kiruv is to make the rechokim into chassidim. This is IMPRTANT. Most kiruv orgs have a mission to make the rechokim into frum yidden. Some kiruv orgs go a step futher with the goal of making rechokim into bnei Torah. The mission in Chabad.is to go much further, to make the rechokim into chassidim that learn chassidus and are connected to their Rebbe. I respect their work and how much they do, but I must say it is frightening!

    #1729168

    Sechel HaYashar
    Participant

    “Chabad forums are 99% a bash-fest on other yidden, primarily gedolim”

    Funny, I haven’t ever come across an active Chabad forum. I once saw an old one which was active perhaps a decade ago.

    #1729169

    Chossid
    Participant

    “Chabad forums are 99% a bash-fest on other yidden, primarily gedolim.”

    Name me one

    #1729183

    This is what I read from historical sources:

    During WW2 one of the adages of the Previous Rebbe of Lubavitch (Rabbi YY Scneerson ztz”l) was “l’alter l’teshuvah, l’alter l’geulah” that immediate repentance would lead to immediate redemption. This was a claa for teshuva (kind of a kiruv/outreach program).

    He also established cheders and sent rabbis throughout the heartland of America to cater to the needs of yidden in various cities that lacked chinuch and Torah leadership.

    The outreach program of Chabad was called Merkos L’Inyonei Chinuch. He also turned his attention to be mikarev Jewish farmers – a popular career choice of Yidden in rural USA. Many of these programs were run by his son-in-law, before he became the past Rebbe.

    Before leaving the USSR he gathered 10 Chassidim and made them give an oath that they will spread Judaism in Communist Russia till the last drop of blood. Many of them indeed were executed or died in prison al kiddush Hashem to keep the flame of yiddishkeit burning by setting up shchita, mikva, cheders, shuls, matza bakeries etc. The teshuva movement in the former USSR that we see today is the fruit of the seeds planted back them.

    Upon Arriving in America he proclaimed “America is not different (than the Old Country)” – one CAN remain a frum yid in America. He then set out to facilitate this goal.

    Facinating stuff went on in those days of the early kiruv movement in America – the treif medina..

    #1729206

    More historical notes:

    At the time there was no Torah magazine publications geared for youth in English, so Merkos Linyonei Chinuch (Previous Rebbe with past Rebbe) created a monthly magazine, “Talks and Tales”.

    Years later Torah Umesorah was established and it published Olomeinu.

    Although Olomeinu was “competition” to Talks & Tales, when the Olomeinu publication got into financial difficulty, the past Rebbe donated great sums of money to keep it afloat.

    In return, when years later he spoke against using a mouse as a messenger for Jewish content (“Mendel the Mouse), Olomeinu cancelled this most popular character.

    Those were the days…mutual cooperation, achdus for a common goal of kiruv… when the battle field was the Treifa Medina of America, of those years long ago.

    #1729226

    Neville, let’s get onto those Chabad forums and bash the bashers of gedolim.

    Name such a site if it exists and I will lash out in fury.

    Unless it only exists in your imagination…a frightening place I would never enter.

    #1729238

    Milhouse
    Participant

    The answer is that Chabad has been focused on “kiruv” since its very beginning, and in fact even before its beginning, since the Baal Shem Tov focused heavily on this.

    #1729294

    rebyonoson
    Participant

    The last Lubavitcher Rebbe really pushed the establishment of schools and made Chabad shlichus a much bigger thing

    #1729424

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    People have brought up Chabad forums many times in the past; I’m not sure why you reserved the strategy of denial until now.

    CrownHeightsInfo, ChabadInfo, Collive, The Anti Tzemach, etc… Of course, you’ll say that you don’t have to own anything said there because all the bad things being said are written by “not real Lubavitchers.” Please, spare us.

    #1729502

    Nevelle, I am calling you b’shem hameforash: LIAR! I just checked your first site: CrownHeightsInfo. They do not allow ANY comments on any news articles. Go and see for yourself! You are poshet a shakren that is mayiz ponov to lie in the face of knowing that the lie will be quickly discovered.

    #1729535

    CTRebbe
    Participant

    I do not understand all those who are saying that kiruv in chassidus goes back to the BeSHT or at least the beginning of Chabad chasiddus. There is a big difference between saying “kiruv is a good thing” which just about all Jews agree (BTW- even the non-Orthodox say this) and actively working towards it as a movement.

    Correct me if someone has information to contrary but in Chabad the movement toward kiruv did not start until the last Rebbe. It is true that many individuals were moser nefesh to fight the communists under the direction of the previous Rebbe and did start schools but that can not be called a kiruv movement.

    Kiruv as a movement in the Litvishe world was active before WW2 with Novardok and after the war in the later 1960’s with Yeshivos like Aish hatorah and Ohr Somayach

    #1729577

    jdf007
    Participant

    CTRebbe specifically, and probably others too. Let’s use logic and history.
    When the Ba’al Shem Tov was around, did he have to send Rabbi’s to India or San Francisco for tourists and businessmen? Were most of the Jews yet scattered, or were they still almost centralized?
    I guess the fact that there is no more Pale and that everyone is now scattered all across the globe really answers the entire question. Does it not?
    And thinking of this as a grand dispersion, it is rather frightening to think about.

    But, at least someone is doing it. What is the alternative? The “mainstream denominations” are more concerned about bringing everyone including non-Jews for dues. Which do you prefer?

    #1729605

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “I guess the fact that there is no more Pale and that everyone is now scattered all across the globe really answers the entire question. Does it not?”
    So, you agree that the Besht wasn’t involved with kiruv because it couldn’t have been applicable in his day? It’s unclear what point you’re making.

    “What is the alternative? The “mainstream denominations” are more concerned about bringing everyone including non-Jews for dues. Which do you prefer?”
    By mainstream denominations you mean Conservative and Reform? Again, not seeing your point. The thread was about the historical timeline, not whether Chabad kiruv is preferable to Conservative/Reform, which obviously everyone agrees it is.

    CTL: I believe the point they are trying to make is that when the Besht spoke to the pushitah yidden who couldn’t afford to be in on the selective (at the time) yeshivish system, it was that era’s equivalent of kiruv. While today, it means reaching out to secular Jews. I don’t believe they are claiming the Besht was actually reaching out to Jews who were eating treif or had converted to Christianity; that would be a historical distortion. If you hold that kiruv is kiruv, as defined by today’s definition, then it’s like you and I said: it started in Chabad under the last Rebbe.

    RGP: I just listed off several well-known Chabad sites, so it could theoretically be possible that one doesn’t have comments. However, I just checked, and Crown Heights info does allow them, so I have no idea what you’re talking about.

    #1729623

    Sechel HaYashar
    Participant

    “CrownHeightsInfo, ChabadInfo, Collive, The Anti Tzemach, etc”
    Comments on news articles can hardly be called forums. And the Anti Tzemach hasn’t been active for the better part of the decade.

    #1729645

    Nevelle, is there no end to your falsehoods? Crownheights.info does NOT allow any comments. Yes, thee is a place to reply with a “comment”, but NO COMMENTS ARE PRINTED. CHeck each news article, no comments. Try sending a comment – it won’t be posted. So yousimply LIED when you wrote that the forum is a place when gedolim are bashed and now you lamely try to defend the lie! Anyone reading can simply confirm your lie.

    #1729682

    Sechel HaYashar
    Participant

    While we’re on this topic, though COLLIVE is not a forum but a news site, I should point out that the site has been banned by all prominent Lubavitch Rabbonim and senior Shluchim, and has a very small Lubavitcher readership since being banned.

    #1729653

    Chossid
    Participant

    “Chabad forums are 99% a bash-fest on other yidden, primarily gedolim.”
    Neville so you’re finally admitting that you’re bashing chabad, and you’re just using this as an excuse. Cool.
    But you haven’t brought a single Chabad forums that 99% are bashing Gedolim. You are straight out liar or a simple sionei Yisrael.
    I don’t know of a single Chabad forum that bashis other people needless to say Gedolim and 99% of it.

    You claim and lied also that Chabad doesn’t learn Mishna brurah, I’m starting to wonder of you ever learned MISHNA BRURAH or SHMIRAS HALOSHON.

    Maybe Chabad should start opening up Chabad houses in litvish communities to teach them what ahavas Yisrael is.

    #1729681

    Chossid
    Participant

    To those that think and say what chabad is or not.
    Call it what you want you want but Chabad is not a kiruv organization, nor did it ever call it’s a kiruv organization, (the name came from litvaks) it’s a “reviling Hashem” organization. (We don’t call it that either, but that’s our goal).

    Chabads shita which goes back to the Bal Shem Tov, is to reveal the eibershter in this world. It starts from yourself learning Torah doing mitzvos and learning pnimius hatorah. Then it goes to spreading it to others, to help people that are not shoimer Torah and mitzvos to start performing them, and those that don’t learn pnimius hatorah to start learning it.
    In all generations this shita express it self in different ways, from that Bal Shem Tov which went around town to kids to tell them to say Baruch Hashem etc. To the last Rebbe sending shluchim to all the little derfuls around the world to mechazik yeddishkiet.

    Our final end goal is what it states when moshiach comes כי מלאה הארץ דעה את יהוה כמים לים מכסים

    Just an example: the resent shooting in Poway CA which that Chabad Rabbi got shoot, we he did afterwards was just credible, it took his tragedy and flipped it around and made a huge kidush Hashem, made it a way to spread the eibershter to all the TV shows that all the schools should focus on Hashem. That’s a way of reviling Hashem.

    It doesn’t cost to hate people, but it cost to love and spread light the this dark word.

    If everyone just thinks a sec before they say something and check if what I’m your saying comes from a good place of your heart the world will be a much better place

    #1729833

    Joseph
    Participant

    Sechel: Why (and when) was it banned?

    #1729892

    RSo
    Participant

    I’ve been keeping out of this until now when I couldn’t resist.

    Here’s what Chossid wrote:

    “Chabad is not a kiruv organization, nor did it ever call it’s a kiruv organization, (the name came from litvaks) it’s a “reviling Hashem” organization”

    I think I agree wholeheartedly!

    #1729891

    Uncle Ben
    Participant

    Chosid; If you don’t know how to spell or type English you shouldn’t post. You come out saying the opposite of what you intend.

    #1729884

    Chossid
    Participant

    Please excuse me for my typos

    #1729861

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Chabad logic:
    “It’s totally untrue that Chabad forums bash other yidden! Those are comment sections on news and blogs not forums, that makes it totally OK!”

    The YWN home page comments are 99% a bash fest on other yidden too. I never claimed they weren’t. I’m not the one bringing comparisons into this; it’s you guys claiming to have clean slates when we all know you so don’t.

    I honestly don’t understand this “tell a lie and then accuse your opponent of lying” angle. Anyone can just go and see that the Anti Tzemach has made several posts in 2019, and that CrownHeights info articles have comments (albeit moderated). Are you just banking on clueless readers of this forum trusting everything you guys say and assuming I’m lying?

    #1729928

    yehoshuaahron
    Participant

    The first one to send “shluchim” for kiruv purposes was the previous Rebbe, meaning Rabbi Yosef Yitzchok Schneerson (the Rebbe’s father in law). Here is some info I found about this in Wikipedia:
    “During the last decade of Rabbi Schneersohn’s life, from 1940 to 1950, he settled in the Crown Heights section of Brooklyn in New York City. Rabbi Schneersohn was already physically weak and ill from his suffering at the hands of the Communists and the Nazis, but he had a strong vision of rebuilding Orthodox Judaism in America, and he wanted his movement to spearhead it. In order to do so, he went on a building campaign to establish religious Jewish day schools and yeshivas for boys and girls, women and men. He established printing houses for the voluminous writings and publications of his movement, and started the process of spreading Jewish observance to the Jewish masses worldwide.

    He began to teach publicly, and many came to seek out his teachings. He began gathering and sending out a small number of his newly trained rabbis to other cities – a trend later emulated and amplified by his son-in-law and successor, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson.”

    #1729929

    yehoshuaahron
    Participant

    The term “kiruv” is antithetical to everything that Chabad and the Rebbe stand for.

    Take the case of the rabbi who wrote to the Rebbe boasting that he was involved in outreach. He used the Hebrew term kiruv rechokim. The poor rabbi must have really regretted that letter. The Rebbe wrote back indignantly:

    You call them “distant”?! What gives you the right to say that you are close and they are far? You must approach each one of them as though you are the King’s servant sent with a message to His most precious child!

    Others who spoke with the Rebbe on the subject have similarly groped and fallen. One Chabad supporter told the Rebbe about a Shabbaton he had sponsored for over forty couples who “had no Jewish background.”

    “No what?” the Rebbe responded, as though in shock.

    “No Jewish background,” was the hesitant response.

    “Tell them that they have a background! Their background is that they are children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!” the Rebbe replied.

    #1729998

    Milhouse
    Participant

    The first one to send “shluchim” for kiruv purposes was the previous Rebbe

    Not true. The Rashab sent shluchim to Georgia, who were largely responsible for reestablishing yiddishkeit there.

    Before that I can’t think of any individuals who could be called “shluchim” in the current sense, whose entire purpose of moving somewhere was to bring yiddishkeit there, but as a previous commenter pointed out this is a matter of geography, not focus. When Jews were more geographically concentrated it was less necessary to relocate in order to reach them.

    The Baal Shem Tov’s work was certainly “kiruv” in the current sense. He reached out to those who were neglected and in despair, whom the maggidim were telling that they were worthless and headed for gehenom and had no reason to serve Hashem, and he fought the magidim and started a whole movement to tell these people that Hashem valued them and they should serve Him and do mitzvos.

    And yes, that absolutely did include those who were publicly eating treif or were intermarried or converted, but mostly it was people who were outwardly observant because there was no real alternative, but who were not observant in private, or not committed to observance.

    #1730001

    Milhouse
    Participant

    In case you think I exaggerated the state of yiddishkeit in Georgia before the Lubavitcher shluchim arrived, they reported that the local Jews would attend goyishe feasts, bringing their own bag of rice which they would put into the pot to cook together with the treife meat, absorbing its flavor. They did not know that this was not allowed.

    #1730238

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “The term “kiruv” is antithetical to everything that Chabad and the Rebbe stand for.”
    Sigh… Everything you’re saying is super kiruvdik. You’re talking to frum yidden. We all know the first rule of kiruv is to pretend you aren’t engaged in kiruv. I don’t know why you think you have to talk to us like that.

    Side note:
    To clarify what Milhouse is saying, he means Georgia the country, not the US state.

    #1730241

    LA boy
    Participant

    During the time of The first chabad rebbe the tsarist Russian government started letting a few people travel through the Russian polish border for business and many Jews started moving to Russia which didn’t have many Jewish communities and the Jews that moved there were known not to be so religious so the rebbe used to send his chassidim to travel through Russia during their business travels and help increase the yiddishkeit of these Jews and establish shuls mikvaos etc. During their travels (the most famous probably being hillel paritcher who ended up moving there) they were so successful that even one of the biggest misnagdim of the day (the real original ones that were truly suspicious of chassidus not the ones that just hate chabad for no reason like these days) by the name of reb zundel wolf who took part in the murder of 4 chassidim in szventzian in 5541 (1781), after he moved to Russia and saw that everything said about chassidus generally and chabad specifically was loshon horah he wrote a letter to his teacher the gra asking him for a way to do teshuva for being involved in the murder of the 4 Chassidim and ended off his letter to the gra saying “no one knows his last day will be and when they stand before the heavenly court to be judged the murder of these 4 people will be blamed on the council of vilna and its bais din for arranging the murders. From the zichronos of the previous lubavitcher rebbe the rayatz

    So yes lubavitch was involved in kiruv from the start

    @mods there’s no bashing anyone in here so perhaps you can let it through?

    #1730399

    Neville – “Anyone can just go and see… that CrownHeights info articles have comments (albeit moderated)”

    Liar! Go on crownheights.info and you will see NOT ONE posted comment after ANY article or news item! Because, they do NOT post ANY comments! (Yes there is an area to “comment” but that comment will NEVER be posted, itis simply feedback for the editors).

    I checked! You can too! This lie by Neville is simply to incite machlokes, sinas chimon, loshon hara, rechilus, motzi shem rah. Shame on you!

    #1732763

    bsharg2
    Participant

    Kiruv is a good thing, we should support it, and increase the number of BT’s.

    #1732908

    Chossid
    Participant

    “Sigh… Everything you’re saying is super kiruvdik. You’re talking to frum yidden. We all know the first rule of kiruv is to pretend you aren’t engaged in kiruv. I don’t know why you think you have to talk to us like that.”

    Did somebody brainwash you? Since when does Chabad “pretend” we aren’t doing “kiruv”?
    And btw I still didn’t find a single site that 99% bashis other Gedolim.

    #1751712

    Defend Chabad
    Participant

    nevillechaimberlin: “People have brought up Chabad forums many times in the past; I’m not sure why you reserved the strategy of denial until now. CrownHeightsInfo, ChabadInfo, Collive, The Anti Tzemach, etc…”

    Alright let’s get this rebuttal started:
    Crownheightsinfo: They don’t seem to have any forum, just articles about stuff going in Crown Heights and Lubavitch. I just went through five pages of posts and I did not find one article regarding Litvishers or other Chassidic sects.

    ChabadInfo: They don’t have any sort of forum, and the only thing you will find there are loads of yidishe news items about goings-on in Lubavitch, inspirational videos, etc. By the comments section, they write: “only proper comments will be allowed” – something that YWN doesn’t post by their comments section. I just took a quick skim of the first page and didn’t find anything inappropriate. Additionally i believe that this comments section is solely for the site owners to view and they are never posted publicly.

    Collive: no forum at all, respectful comments, and has no history whatsoever of bashing or the like.

    Anti Tzemach: this indeed is a disrespectful site, you may be have a valid claim against this one, but nevertheless, there is nothing concrete against it for the following reasons:
    First of all, unlike YWN this blog is manned by only one person who goes by the pseudonym of “hirscheltzig”, and not necessarily is he a Lubavitcher anyway. Nobody knows who he is and he may just be a random person pretending to be a Lubavitcher in order to make Lubavitch look bad. additionally, if you look in the comments section, you’ll see that everyone attacks him for his radical views. No one agrees with him.

    So my words to you are: please don’t just denigrate others without a proper basis to your claims.

    #1751737

    LA boy
    Participant

    Defend chabad. I agree with everything you wrote besides collive, they have a history of bashing people especially the crown heights rabbonim and mica sofer the head of collive doesn’t care what anyone has to say for example any time there’s a controversy with the rabbonim she puts up an article bashing them another example is when one of her relatives moved from crown heights to Lakewood so they wrote an article bashing crown heights schools and Jewish landlords etc. And writing how great Lakewood is and then several months later when they realized that most schools wouldn’t accept them because as part of their PR for their job as wedding photographers they had Instagram and posted pictures of the girls on it and the schools have higher acceptance standards so they moved back to crown heights and wrote a whole article about how bad Lakewood is and in either article they didn’t let anyone post comments criticizing them

    In short there’s a reason why chabad rabbonim came out against collive and not any other chabad news sites

    #1751739

    RBZS
    Participant

    On the first yahtzeit of the previous Rebbe, the Rebbe accepted to be the new rebbe.
    That night he said that in the USA the custom is that when one receives a new position of leadership he makes a “mission statement.”
    Following that custom he made a mission statement declaring what his goal as the new rebbe of Chabad was.
    Crying (literally) at the fact that there are millions of Jewish children who do not know aleph bais, he declared that it is not enough for one to serve Hashem by himself, even on the highest level.
    He said that our motto is that Hashem Echad, and Torah Echad, and Am Yisrael Echad all must be combined.
    Therefore, our goal in life and the mission in Chabad from now on will be to see to it that as many Jews as possible accept upon themselves the fact that Hashem Echad and Torah Echad. Then, and only then,together with Yisrael Echad it will be a sheleimus.

    #1752372

    Defend Chabad
    Participant

    LA boy: Interesting, because I used to visit that site every day for a few years and i never came across anything disrespectful against other communities. It may be that every once in a while they write something bad, but i haven’t seen it ever, so it’s probably not to such a great extent.

    And I believe that the reason why the site was placed under cherem was not due to the reasons you mentioned, but because of others which aren’t necessarily relevant to post here but if you see or find anything disturbing than you should probably Email the editors and let them take care of it – they might do something, but I’m just wondering if these stories you posted as ‘examples’ are based of what you heard from others or what you yourself saw….

    #1752395

    Defend Chabad
    Participant

    nevillechaimberlin: Don’t forget that the Anti Tzemach was formed in response to a previous blog called the MentalBlog, a site published by the controversial Tzemach Atlas who started the blog as a platform to spread false information regarding Chabad, and for a while, it gained notoriety among Chabad circles as well as others as a dangerous propaganda site. The owner has since closed the blog and according to some, he eventually went off the derech r”l although I myself am not actually sure what happened to him afterwards. His final words before he closed shop were: “I don’t understand why I am still writing this blog. A better question, why am I still a Jew? I don’t find myself at home with my people. The internal dialogue with G-d is exhausted. The alienation is complete . . .THE END
    “I sign off, thank you for all.”

    In response, a presumed Lubavitcher by the alias of “hirsheltzig” started his own blog which is known as “The Anti Tzemach”, a site which was originally intended to be a counter – attack against all of TA’s claims. While, of course, the motives behind his having published the site, do not justify the gross content, nevertheless, it is worthwhile to bear in mind that the site was formulated merely as a response to an already existing site which had gained a name as a hogwash promoting platform.
    יחeNow

    #1752425

    LA boy
    Participant

    Defend chabad: it used to happen only rarely but in the last few years they’ve started posted a lot more articles against different groups in crown heights, the bais din, bais rivka, oholei Torah etc. They don’t really write against other communities that much it’s mainly crown heights
    regarding the specific example I mentioned I read both articles and when they posted the 2nd one about how Lakewood is bad, I tried posting a link to the 1st article about crown heights being bad but they didn’t let it through.
    P.s. crownheights.info also posts the same articles as collive.com about different letters from the crown heights bais din and teachers not getting paid etc. But they don’t give their personal opinion they just post the facts with some details unlike mica sofer/collive which gives her personal opinion which is usually slanted against whichever group the article is discussing

    #1752437

    Defend Chabad
    Participant

    LA boy: Oh sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought you were referring to bashing gedolim and other sects – that is what we were discussing when I mentioned col and the other sites, as nevillechaimberlin stated: “Chabad forums are 99% a bash-fest on other yidden, primarily gedolim.” and then later he presented examples of sites that bash other yidden and gedolim: “CrownHeightsInfo, ChabadInfo, Collive, The Anti Tzemach, etc…”

    That’s what I was responding to, when I posted a rebuttal.

    #1752442

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @NevilleChaimBerlin
    I don’t know why you tagged me in your post of May 20 2:18PM….
    I had not posted in this thread. Perhaps you meant to tag CT Rebbe

    #1752534

    Ysiegel
    Participant

    Defend Chabad and the like sound like either a. A teenager (at least mentally), or b. A Baal teshuva who began being part of the Chabad community sometime in the past few years, in which case he should have no say in such huge matters as the ones being discussed, or c. a combination of the two.

    There are so many things wrong with the points being spewed around here…

    In all my years of going to gatherings, hearing rabbonim in the Chabad community (you know, the ones who are actually knowledgeable in Shas, Shulchan Aruch, Chassidus, etc), and hearing Chassidim whose opinions are heard and respected within the Chabad community —and, more than anything, from my modest knowledge of Chassidic works—after all of that I have never seen such views as expressed by many individuals here speaking in the name of Chabad.

    I wouldn’t care to so much as respond, but considering the many readers who might be exposed to this nonsense I find it right to say something anyways, just in case.

    At any rate I’d absolutely love to have a conversation with some of these individuals in order to try and set some things straight… Pains me to see it.

    #1752667

    Defend Chabad
    Participant

    Yseigel: “In all my years of going to gatherings, hearing rabbonim in the Chabad community…. I have never seen such views as expressed by many individuals here speaking in the name of Chabad”

    Well obviously, because the views being expressed here are the not the type that you find by a traditional ‘Chasidic Gathering’. There, they probably talk about Chassidishkeit and Hiskashrus and different ideas related to the concept of being a Chossid, whereas the topics under discussion here belong in an entirely different spectrum. The fact that you didn’t hear these ideas being expressed at the Farbrengens you went to, does not imply that the rabonim don’t agree with what I’m saying.

    In any event, it’s a known fact that there are many things that Chabad Shluchim just wouldn’t say in public because of the controversy it would arouse. Case in point, the time that Rabbi Shlome Cunin, head Shliach of California, said – apparently unaware of the cameras: “The Rebbe runs the world, and he will take us out of golus”. There is a video of this event that went around on different sites, and it just goes to show that Shluchim really believe many things that they just won’t say in public, but now just may not be the time to elaborate….
    “At any rate I’d absolutely love to have a conversation with some of these individuals in order to try and set some things straight”
    It’s ironic that you’re telling ME that you would like to set things straight, as if you have a better idea of the inner workings of Chabad than me, a Lubavitcher Chossid for many years. Let’s just say that Chabad and their ideologies are a little more complicated than you think, and not everything about Chabad is limited to all the nonsense that you hear in your local Litvishe shtiebel.

    At any rate, It’s good to know that you attend Chasidic gatherings – keep it up…. Who knows, perhaps they’ll even turn you into a mentsh some day….

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