May 19, 2019 8:17 am at 8:17 am #1728715
Chabad today is synonymous with outreach to non-affiliated Jews, when did Chabad become focused on Kiruv?May 19, 2019 9:29 am at 9:29 am #1728820
The chassisus movement which started with the Ba’al Shem Tov, is kind of Kiruv. Chabad does it in a different way. With them, concerns about who should be the rebbe isn’t the big issue.May 19, 2019 10:28 am at 10:28 am #1728842
One of the main factors Chabad chassidus is based on is what the Bal Shem Tov said אימתי כאתי מר, לכשיפוצו מעינותיך חוצה
Spreading yeddishkiet and chassidus through out the world.May 19, 2019 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #1729073
Chabad is concerned with one thing: revealing Hashem in the world.
This is the thread that runs through the intellectual study of Chassidus (so we should see Hashem in the world) and that Jews should do mitzvos (that Hashem’s will should be actualized in this world.
That is also why (real) Chabad is obsessed with Moshiach:
מלאה הארץ דעה את ה’ כמים לים מכסיםMay 19, 2019 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #1729086
Why are people so OCD about Chabad?
Why the need to know how Chabad holds about xyz? Why Chabad does abc? When did Chabad start doing… ?
I, a fully trained Kop Doktar diagnose this as OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE BEHAVIOUR!May 19, 2019 5:10 pm at 5:10 pm #1729093
I wonder if somewhere there is a chabad coffee room with a thread: “When did Litvaks start doing kiruv?” You know why this thread doesn’t exist? Because we are obsessed with them but they aren’t obsessed with us.May 19, 2019 7:43 pm at 7:43 pm #1729141
Mr. Rebbetzin: Why are you attacking Litvaks as being obsessed? I’m sure you wouldn’t want your affiliated kehila attackedMay 19, 2019 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #1729145
Chabad forums are 99% a bash-fest on other yidden, primarily gedolim.
I would be interested in when Litvaks started doing kiruv. For Chabad, l’maaseh I think the answer is when the last Rebbe took power. Most of the stuff about it happening with previous Rebbes seems like an attempt to make their history backwards compatible.May 19, 2019 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #1729139
The prime mission of CHabad is “Uforatzta” – spreading the teaching of chassidus. The purpose and goal of their kiruv is to make the rechokim into chassidim. This is IMPRTANT. Most kiruv orgs have a mission to make the rechokim into frum yidden. Some kiruv orgs go a step futher with the goal of making rechokim into bnei Torah. The mission in Chabad.is to go much further, to make the rechokim into chassidim that learn chassidus and are connected to their Rebbe. I respect their work and how much they do, but I must say it is frightening!May 19, 2019 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #1729168
“Chabad forums are 99% a bash-fest on other yidden, primarily gedolim”
Funny, I haven’t ever come across an active Chabad forum. I once saw an old one which was active perhaps a decade ago.May 19, 2019 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #1729169
“Chabad forums are 99% a bash-fest on other yidden, primarily gedolim.”
Name me oneMay 19, 2019 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #1729183
This is what I read from historical sources:
During WW2 one of the adages of the Previous Rebbe of Lubavitch (Rabbi YY Scneerson ztz”l) was “l’alter l’teshuvah, l’alter l’geulah” that immediate repentance would lead to immediate redemption. This was a claa for teshuva (kind of a kiruv/outreach program).
He also established cheders and sent rabbis throughout the heartland of America to cater to the needs of yidden in various cities that lacked chinuch and Torah leadership.
The outreach program of Chabad was called Merkos L’Inyonei Chinuch. He also turned his attention to be mikarev Jewish farmers – a popular career choice of Yidden in rural USA. Many of these programs were run by his son-in-law, before he became the past Rebbe.
Before leaving the USSR he gathered 10 Chassidim and made them give an oath that they will spread Judaism in Communist Russia till the last drop of blood. Many of them indeed were executed or died in prison al kiddush Hashem to keep the flame of yiddishkeit burning by setting up shchita, mikva, cheders, shuls, matza bakeries etc. The teshuva movement in the former USSR that we see today is the fruit of the seeds planted back them.
Upon Arriving in America he proclaimed “America is not different (than the Old Country)” – one CAN remain a frum yid in America. He then set out to facilitate this goal.
Facinating stuff went on in those days of the early kiruv movement in America – the treif medina..May 19, 2019 11:50 pm at 11:50 pm #1729206
More historical notes:
At the time there was no Torah magazine publications geared for youth in English, so Merkos Linyonei Chinuch (Previous Rebbe with past Rebbe) created a monthly magazine, “Talks and Tales”.
Years later Torah Umesorah was established and it published Olomeinu.
Although Olomeinu was “competition” to Talks & Tales, when the Olomeinu publication got into financial difficulty, the past Rebbe donated great sums of money to keep it afloat.
In return, when years later he spoke against using a mouse as a messenger for Jewish content (“Mendel the Mouse), Olomeinu cancelled this most popular character.
Those were the days…mutual cooperation, achdus for a common goal of kiruv… when the battle field was the Treifa Medina of America, of those years long ago.May 20, 2019 1:14 am at 1:14 am #1729226
Neville, let’s get onto those Chabad forums and bash the bashers of gedolim.
Name such a site if it exists and I will lash out in fury.
Unless it only exists in your imagination…a frightening place I would never enter.May 20, 2019 8:02 am at 8:02 am #1729238
The answer is that Chabad has been focused on “kiruv” since its very beginning, and in fact even before its beginning, since the Baal Shem Tov focused heavily on this.May 20, 2019 9:16 am at 9:16 am #1729294
The last Lubavitcher Rebbe really pushed the establishment of schools and made Chabad shlichus a much bigger thingMay 20, 2019 10:15 am at 10:15 am #1729424
People have brought up Chabad forums many times in the past; I’m not sure why you reserved the strategy of denial until now.
CrownHeightsInfo, ChabadInfo, Collive, The Anti Tzemach, etc… Of course, you’ll say that you don’t have to own anything said there because all the bad things being said are written by “not real Lubavitchers.” Please, spare us.May 20, 2019 10:54 am at 10:54 am #1729502
Nevelle, I am calling you b’shem hameforash: LIAR! I just checked your first site: CrownHeightsInfo. They do not allow ANY comments on any news articles. Go and see for yourself! You are poshet a shakren that is mayiz ponov to lie in the face of knowing that the lie will be quickly discovered.May 20, 2019 11:57 am at 11:57 am #1729535
I do not understand all those who are saying that kiruv in chassidus goes back to the BeSHT or at least the beginning of Chabad chasiddus. There is a big difference between saying “kiruv is a good thing” which just about all Jews agree (BTW- even the non-Orthodox say this) and actively working towards it as a movement.
Correct me if someone has information to contrary but in Chabad the movement toward kiruv did not start until the last Rebbe. It is true that many individuals were moser nefesh to fight the communists under the direction of the previous Rebbe and did start schools but that can not be called a kiruv movement.
Kiruv as a movement in the Litvishe world was active before WW2 with Novardok and after the war in the later 1960’s with Yeshivos like Aish hatorah and Ohr SomayachMay 20, 2019 1:01 pm at 1:01 pm #1729577
CTRebbe specifically, and probably others too. Let’s use logic and history.
When the Ba’al Shem Tov was around, did he have to send Rabbi’s to India or San Francisco for tourists and businessmen? Were most of the Jews yet scattered, or were they still almost centralized?
I guess the fact that there is no more Pale and that everyone is now scattered all across the globe really answers the entire question. Does it not?
And thinking of this as a grand dispersion, it is rather frightening to think about.
But, at least someone is doing it. What is the alternative? The “mainstream denominations” are more concerned about bringing everyone including non-Jews for dues. Which do you prefer?May 20, 2019 2:18 pm at 2:18 pm #1729605
“I guess the fact that there is no more Pale and that everyone is now scattered all across the globe really answers the entire question. Does it not?”
So, you agree that the Besht wasn’t involved with kiruv because it couldn’t have been applicable in his day? It’s unclear what point you’re making.
“What is the alternative? The “mainstream denominations” are more concerned about bringing everyone including non-Jews for dues. Which do you prefer?”
By mainstream denominations you mean Conservative and Reform? Again, not seeing your point. The thread was about the historical timeline, not whether Chabad kiruv is preferable to Conservative/Reform, which obviously everyone agrees it is.
CTL: I believe the point they are trying to make is that when the Besht spoke to the pushitah yidden who couldn’t afford to be in on the selective (at the time) yeshivish system, it was that era’s equivalent of kiruv. While today, it means reaching out to secular Jews. I don’t believe they are claiming the Besht was actually reaching out to Jews who were eating treif or had converted to Christianity; that would be a historical distortion. If you hold that kiruv is kiruv, as defined by today’s definition, then it’s like you and I said: it started in Chabad under the last Rebbe.
RGP: I just listed off several well-known Chabad sites, so it could theoretically be possible that one doesn’t have comments. However, I just checked, and Crown Heights info does allow them, so I have no idea what you’re talking about.May 20, 2019 2:22 pm at 2:22 pm #1729623
“CrownHeightsInfo, ChabadInfo, Collive, The Anti Tzemach, etc”
Comments on news articles can hardly be called forums. And the Anti Tzemach hasn’t been active for the better part of the decade.May 20, 2019 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #1729645
Nevelle, is there no end to your falsehoods? Crownheights.info does NOT allow any comments. Yes, thee is a place to reply with a “comment”, but NO COMMENTS ARE PRINTED. CHeck each news article, no comments. Try sending a comment – it won’t be posted. So yousimply LIED when you wrote that the forum is a place when gedolim are bashed and now you lamely try to defend the lie! Anyone reading can simply confirm your lie.May 20, 2019 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #1729682
While we’re on this topic, though COLLIVE is not a forum but a news site, I should point out that the site has been banned by all prominent Lubavitch Rabbonim and senior Shluchim, and has a very small Lubavitcher readership since being banned.May 20, 2019 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #1729653
“Chabad forums are 99% a bash-fest on other yidden, primarily gedolim.”
Neville so you’re finally admitting that you’re bashing chabad, and you’re just using this as an excuse. Cool.
But you haven’t brought a single Chabad forums that 99% are bashing Gedolim. You are straight out liar or a simple sionei Yisrael.
I don’t know of a single Chabad forum that bashis other people needless to say Gedolim and 99% of it.
You claim and lied also that Chabad doesn’t learn Mishna brurah, I’m starting to wonder of you ever learned MISHNA BRURAH or SHMIRAS HALOSHON.
Maybe Chabad should start opening up Chabad houses in litvish communities to teach them what ahavas Yisrael is.May 20, 2019 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #1729681
To those that think and say what chabad is or not.
Call it what you want you want but Chabad is not a kiruv organization, nor did it ever call it’s a kiruv organization, (the name came from litvaks) it’s a “reviling Hashem” organization. (We don’t call it that either, but that’s our goal).
Chabads shita which goes back to the Bal Shem Tov, is to reveal the eibershter in this world. It starts from yourself learning Torah doing mitzvos and learning pnimius hatorah. Then it goes to spreading it to others, to help people that are not shoimer Torah and mitzvos to start performing them, and those that don’t learn pnimius hatorah to start learning it.
In all generations this shita express it self in different ways, from that Bal Shem Tov which went around town to kids to tell them to say Baruch Hashem etc. To the last Rebbe sending shluchim to all the little derfuls around the world to mechazik yeddishkiet.
Our final end goal is what it states when moshiach comes כי מלאה הארץ דעה את יהוה כמים לים מכסים
Just an example: the resent shooting in Poway CA which that Chabad Rabbi got shoot, we he did afterwards was just credible, it took his tragedy and flipped it around and made a huge kidush Hashem, made it a way to spread the eibershter to all the TV shows that all the schools should focus on Hashem. That’s a way of reviling Hashem.
It doesn’t cost to hate people, but it cost to love and spread light the this dark word.
If everyone just thinks a sec before they say something and check if what I’m your saying comes from a good place of your heart the world will be a much better placeMay 20, 2019 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #1729833
Sechel: Why (and when) was it banned?May 21, 2019 12:22 am at 12:22 am #1729892
I’ve been keeping out of this until now when I couldn’t resist.
Here’s what Chossid wrote:
“Chabad is not a kiruv organization, nor did it ever call it’s a kiruv organization, (the name came from litvaks) it’s a “reviling Hashem” organization”
I think I agree wholeheartedly!May 21, 2019 12:23 am at 12:23 am #1729891
Chosid; If you don’t know how to spell or type English you shouldn’t post. You come out saying the opposite of what you intend.May 21, 2019 12:29 am at 12:29 am #1729884
Please excuse me for my typosMay 21, 2019 12:33 am at 12:33 am #1729861
“It’s totally untrue that Chabad forums bash other yidden! Those are comment sections on news and blogs not forums, that makes it totally OK!”
The YWN home page comments are 99% a bash fest on other yidden too. I never claimed they weren’t. I’m not the one bringing comparisons into this; it’s you guys claiming to have clean slates when we all know you so don’t.
I honestly don’t understand this “tell a lie and then accuse your opponent of lying” angle. Anyone can just go and see that the Anti Tzemach has made several posts in 2019, and that CrownHeights info articles have comments (albeit moderated). Are you just banking on clueless readers of this forum trusting everything you guys say and assuming I’m lying?May 21, 2019 7:57 am at 7:57 am #1729928
The first one to send “shluchim” for kiruv purposes was the previous Rebbe, meaning Rabbi Yosef Yitzchok Schneerson (the Rebbe’s father in law). Here is some info I found about this in Wikipedia:
“During the last decade of Rabbi Schneersohn’s life, from 1940 to 1950, he settled in the Crown Heights section of Brooklyn in New York City. Rabbi Schneersohn was already physically weak and ill from his suffering at the hands of the Communists and the Nazis, but he had a strong vision of rebuilding Orthodox Judaism in America, and he wanted his movement to spearhead it. In order to do so, he went on a building campaign to establish religious Jewish day schools and yeshivas for boys and girls, women and men. He established printing houses for the voluminous writings and publications of his movement, and started the process of spreading Jewish observance to the Jewish masses worldwide.
He began to teach publicly, and many came to seek out his teachings. He began gathering and sending out a small number of his newly trained rabbis to other cities – a trend later emulated and amplified by his son-in-law and successor, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson.”May 21, 2019 8:12 am at 8:12 am #1729929
The term “kiruv” is antithetical to everything that Chabad and the Rebbe stand for.
Take the case of the rabbi who wrote to the Rebbe boasting that he was involved in outreach. He used the Hebrew term kiruv rechokim. The poor rabbi must have really regretted that letter. The Rebbe wrote back indignantly:
You call them “distant”?! What gives you the right to say that you are close and they are far? You must approach each one of them as though you are the King’s servant sent with a message to His most precious child!
Others who spoke with the Rebbe on the subject have similarly groped and fallen. One Chabad supporter told the Rebbe about a Shabbaton he had sponsored for over forty couples who “had no Jewish background.”
“No what?” the Rebbe responded, as though in shock.
“No Jewish background,” was the hesitant response.
“Tell them that they have a background! Their background is that they are children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!” the Rebbe replied.May 21, 2019 8:33 am at 8:33 am #1729998
The first one to send “shluchim” for kiruv purposes was the previous Rebbe
Not true. The Rashab sent shluchim to Georgia, who were largely responsible for reestablishing yiddishkeit there.
Before that I can’t think of any individuals who could be called “shluchim” in the current sense, whose entire purpose of moving somewhere was to bring yiddishkeit there, but as a previous commenter pointed out this is a matter of geography, not focus. When Jews were more geographically concentrated it was less necessary to relocate in order to reach them.
The Baal Shem Tov’s work was certainly “kiruv” in the current sense. He reached out to those who were neglected and in despair, whom the maggidim were telling that they were worthless and headed for gehenom and had no reason to serve Hashem, and he fought the magidim and started a whole movement to tell these people that Hashem valued them and they should serve Him and do mitzvos.
And yes, that absolutely did include those who were publicly eating treif or were intermarried or converted, but mostly it was people who were outwardly observant because there was no real alternative, but who were not observant in private, or not committed to observance.May 21, 2019 8:38 am at 8:38 am #1730001
In case you think I exaggerated the state of yiddishkeit in Georgia before the Lubavitcher shluchim arrived, they reported that the local Jews would attend goyishe feasts, bringing their own bag of rice which they would put into the pot to cook together with the treife meat, absorbing its flavor. They did not know that this was not allowed.May 21, 2019 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #1730238
“The term “kiruv” is antithetical to everything that Chabad and the Rebbe stand for.”
Sigh… Everything you’re saying is super kiruvdik. You’re talking to frum yidden. We all know the first rule of kiruv is to pretend you aren’t engaged in kiruv. I don’t know why you think you have to talk to us like that.
To clarify what Milhouse is saying, he means Georgia the country, not the US state.May 21, 2019 5:10 pm at 5:10 pm #1730241
During the time of The first chabad rebbe the tsarist Russian government started letting a few people travel through the Russian polish border for business and many Jews started moving to Russia which didn’t have many Jewish communities and the Jews that moved there were known not to be so religious so the rebbe used to send his chassidim to travel through Russia during their business travels and help increase the yiddishkeit of these Jews and establish shuls mikvaos etc. During their travels (the most famous probably being hillel paritcher who ended up moving there) they were so successful that even one of the biggest misnagdim of the day (the real original ones that were truly suspicious of chassidus not the ones that just hate chabad for no reason like these days) by the name of reb zundel wolf who took part in the murder of 4 chassidim in szventzian in 5541 (1781), after he moved to Russia and saw that everything said about chassidus generally and chabad specifically was loshon horah he wrote a letter to his teacher the gra asking him for a way to do teshuva for being involved in the murder of the 4 Chassidim and ended off his letter to the gra saying “no one knows his last day will be and when they stand before the heavenly court to be judged the murder of these 4 people will be blamed on the council of vilna and its bais din for arranging the murders. From the zichronos of the previous lubavitcher rebbe the rayatz
So yes lubavitch was involved in kiruv from the start
@mods there’s no bashing anyone in here so perhaps you can let it through?May 21, 2019 5:10 pm at 5:10 pm #1730399
Neville – “Anyone can just go and see… that CrownHeights info articles have comments (albeit moderated)”
Liar! Go on crownheights.info and you will see NOT ONE posted comment after ANY article or news item! Because, they do NOT post ANY comments! (Yes there is an area to “comment” but that comment will NEVER be posted, itis simply feedback for the editors).
I checked! You can too! This lie by Neville is simply to incite machlokes, sinas chimon, loshon hara, rechilus, motzi shem rah. Shame on you!May 24, 2019 4:27 pm at 4:27 pm #1732763
Kiruv is a good thing, we should support it, and increase the number of BT’s.May 26, 2019 1:11 am at 1:11 am #1732908
“Sigh… Everything you’re saying is super kiruvdik. You’re talking to frum yidden. We all know the first rule of kiruv is to pretend you aren’t engaged in kiruv. I don’t know why you think you have to talk to us like that.”
Did somebody brainwash you? Since when does Chabad “pretend” we aren’t doing “kiruv”?
And btw I still didn’t find a single site that 99% bashis other Gedolim.
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