When did written Shidduch resumes start?

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  • #616960

    The Frumguy
    Participant

    It seems that this phenomenon of writing down pertinent (and sometimes not so pertinent) information in search for one’s bashert is a recent occurrence.

    Would someone venture a guess as to when written shidduch resumes became the norm? In your opinion, is it a good or bad idea?

    #1120835

    Joseph
    Participant

    Within the past 10-12 years or so.

    #1120836

    jwashing2001
    Member

    When Adam met Chava

    #1120837

    offbeat2
    Member

    as a girl in shidduchim, I once saw a shadchan take my resume and place it into a huge stack of other resumes.

    Then it hit me why resumes are wrong: this shadchan will now hand this stack to the boys’ mothers. she can look through the stack, find the “perfect” one, and mazel tov!

    Without giving a single (pun intended) other girl a chance. Because her resume, and then her whole life, is not as perfect.

    As if there are perfect people in the world.

    And when the girl does not act like the girl from her resume, poof, the shidduchs over…

    MHO

    #1120838

    MsPrincess
    Member

    an hour ago. (lol.)

    #1120839

    Health
    Participant

    Offbeat2 -“Without giving a single (pun intended) other girl a chance. Because her resume, and then her whole life, is not as perfect.”

    Let me tell you something – Life isn’t perfect!

    If you go out with guys 15 – 25 years older than you, you’ll have plenty of dates.

    #1120840

    FriendInFlatbush
    Participant

    I’ve heard about 8 years ago for girls, and about 5 years ago for boys. With such a population boom and the relatively few number of shadchanim, it’s mostly a matter of practicality.

    #1120841

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    That means 15-25 years widowhood is not unlikely.

    #1120842

    Mammele
    Participant

    RY: statistically women live longer than men, so if one spouse should be older, it’s the woman…

    #1120843

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Then you can expect even more years of widowhood.

    #1120844

    MsPrincess
    Member

    reb yidd – if the lady is older than the man than statistically theyll both not be widows for too long thats what mammele was saying and i agree with.

    #1120845

    Health
    Participant

    Mr. Yidd -“That means 15-25 years widowhood is not unlikely”

    The way the situation is now, it’s better than a lifetime of spinsterhood!

    #1120846

    Health
    Participant

    Mammele -“statistically women live longer than men, so if one spouse should be older, it’s the woman…”

    Technically you’re right, but it doesn’t stop the Shidduch crisis!

    Do you want your family members to be the ones who never get married, i.e. spinsters their whole lives?!?

    #1120847

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Calling unmarried women spinsters is derogatory and offensive.

    #1120849

    MsPrincess
    Member

    yes it is offensive. i know many older unmarried women that have not found the right one yet.

    #1120850

    oomis
    Participant

    I hate the term “resume.” I hate the term “research.” I hate the term “lists.” Our unmarried children are not filling out a job application. I am not writing a term paper. Our kids are not an item amomng many listed items to be picked up, or things to do.

    The entire shidduch process as it exists today, offends me heartily. In my humble opinion, the so-called rules of the game are why we have a shidduch crisis today. Shidduchim should be suggested to the young man and young woman in question, by any and all people, professional shadchanim or not, who know them or know of them. If the young people are too immature, to unintelligent, too busy to be bothered with speaking to people about a proposed shidduch on their own, without Mommy making their decisions for them, they are not ready to be dating, much less get married. I know of thirty-five year old guys whose mothers are still making those decisions regarding to whom their sons will be redt. That is utterly ridiculous, and bodes not-so-well for the kallah who agrees to marry such a passive Mama’s boy.

    BTW, the term spinster has a pejorative connotation. No one thinks ill of a bachelor, but call a woman a spinster and you have nothing good to say about her. Not fair, and not very nice.

    #1120852

    offbeat2
    Member

    I agree with the above system. But do you think that will help the “shidduch crisis”??

    Any innovative ideas on what can help the shidduch crisis?

    #1120853

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    If the young people are too immature, to unintelligent, too busy to be bothered with speaking to people about a proposed shidduch on their own, without Mommy making their decisions for them, they are not ready to be dating, much less get married.

    This is categorically untrue. Just take chassidim as an example. The parents make the decision who they meet, and a very high percentage marry the first. Are they not ready to marry?

    #1120854

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant
    #1120855

    oomis
    Participant

    DaasYochid, the Chassidim are in a whole ‘nother dating category. Many of them are NOT ready to get married, as a matter of fact, but they are doing so anyway. OK. If their mehalach works for them, kol hakavod. Their mindset from birth is not the same as the that of much of the rest of the frum world, as it applies to dating, and again, if it works well for them, more often than not, then B”H for that. It is not for me to critique their methodology.

    It is about THAT other demographic that I speak, the one that lives in the world where actual boy/girl dating takes place, and not by b’show. In that world, males and females should be mature enough to make their own arrangements for tachlis purposes. All too often you see couples on a date who literally do not know how to date. Why else has it become so popular (and necessary, apparently) to have dating mentors and coaches? Who ever heard of such a thing twenty, thiry, forty years ago? But now, we have infantilized our kids to the point where they do not feel COMPETENT to actively participate in their own future. Either that, or they have become too lazy, to do so. I am not sure which is worse.

    #1120856

    Health
    Participant

    MsPrincess -“yes it is offensive”

    Not at all! All the posters who think so – check your dictionaries.

    From Merriam Webster:

    “b : an unmarried woman and especially one past the common age for marrying”

    #1120857

    Joseph
    Participant

    oomis: The Yeshivish shidduch system is much closer to the Chasidish shidduch system (as different as they may be) than to the MO dating system, that you oh so strongly advocate, if you must do a comparison between the three.

    And both the Chasidish couples and the yeshivish couples most certainly are ready for marriage. It is the MO couples who are long overdue and way past the time they should have gotten married, by time they do.

    #1120858

    If the young people are too immature, to unintelligent, too busy to be bothered with speaking to people about a proposed shidduch on their own, without Mommy making their decisions for them, they are not ready to be dating, much less get married.

    Like Yitzchok Avinu?

    #1120859

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    It’s still offensive and derogatory.

    #1120860

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    In that world, males and females should be mature enough to make their own arrangements for tachlis purposes.

    Why? Because it makes you uncomfortable that we successfully marry with the parents taking care of the checking, we should change? You can make up whichever rules you want – if you’re not old enough to be President of the United States, you’re not old enough to get married. It’s meaningless.

    Some shidduch crisis wacko took out an ad saying “if your son is ready to go to Eretz Yisroel he’s ready to get married”.

    All these “rules” are ridiculous. You could be ready to get married but not ready to do the necessary investigations to make sure the prospective spouse is suitable. You could be ready to go to Eretz Yisroel but not to get married. Don’t make unnecessary equations, judge each thing in its own.

    BTW, it’s the older singles who need the dating coaches; most get married within a year or so of starting to go out, without needing it.

    I’ll bet there are a whole lot more older singles among the crowd that does things your way than in the crowd which dies things my way.

    #1120861

    Health
    Participant

    Mr.Yidd -“It’s still offensive and derogatory”

    In my original post I included you. The Yeshivashe meaning is not the same as the real meaning. Stop looking down for no reason!

    #1120863

    Mammele
    Participant

    The term “alte bucher” is just as derogatory or worse and is used somewhat regularly here with inpugnity. Just saying…

    #1120865

    Mammele
    Participant

    In all fairness though I never considered the word “shvartze” when speaking Yiddish to be any more offensive than the word “black” — which it means. All these words are very literal and depend a lot on intention, inflection, context, and often as in Health’s case here perception.

    We’ve become a little over-sensitive and while I can understand someone becoming offended for being referred to as a spinster or alte bucher, it’s not the same as saying you don’t want your family member to be assigned to spinsterhood or become a spinster.

    So wow, for a change (besides for his anti-Zionist stance which I mostly agree with) I find myself in agreement with Health!

    #1120867

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    The word “negro” literally means black and it’s still outdated and offensive when applied to humans but the English word is not considered to be so.

    #1120868

    Joseph
    Participant

    There is no other Yiddish word for black other than shvartz. It’s simply the word for that color just as roit means red.

    #1120869

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    In some languages the n-word is the only word for black.

    #1120870

    Mammele
    Participant

    Right, because I believe slave owners used that term very negatively to refer to Blacks so it became a no-no.

    But if I’m speaking Yiddish, there’s no other word to use to describe the color black whether I’m referring to a person or something totally innocuous. (The Hebrew options are worse, at least when speaking Yiddish, except that they might be less obvious to outsiders.) I sometimes fear saying “I bought a black coat” in Yiddish on the subway as Blacks may become offended since the word has been made taboo.

    Common sense is always in order and should trump political correctness.

    #1120871

    Health
    Participant

    Mammele -“So wow, for a change (besides for his anti-Zionist stance which I mostly agree with) I find myself in agreement with Health!”

    Well – thank you. I find in the YWCR that they used to let e/o rank each other out openly, nowadays it hasn’t stopped, but it’s more subtle!

    I guess it’s the generation – when I was a kid if you wanted to be Frei, no one stopped you, nobody cared. Nowadays they pretend to be Frum, but they’re really not, they’re just Fakers!

    #1120872

    Hashemisreading
    Participant

    A resume is just a paper with your name and some basic info on it so its easier for the boys mother to be organized. emphasis on boys mother.

    #1120873

    computer777
    Member

    Do you put what you’re looking for on a resume? And what kind of person you are?

    #1120875

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    What’s the mekor that eliezer asked for Rivka’s resume?

    #1120876

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant
    #1120877

    Hashemisreading
    Participant

    What’s the mekor that eliezer asked for Rivka’s resume?

    The same place that has the mekor that shidduchim get redt to the boy first.

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