December 26, 2011 1:25 am at 1:25 am #601298
It seems to me that while parents claim to love their children and want whats best for them, in too many cases their own interest interferes with what is best.
I was in shul over shabbos and saw a couple of kids davenning. Oh, how cute. I pondered for a moment what if the kids were having kavana? It would no longer be cute. It would be mature. Mature kids aren’t cute.
Kids are only cute as long as they look like they think they are doing grown-up stuff. When they actually DO grown-up stuff, they are no longer cute- just grown up. The G”ra knew shas at three. Do you think it was cute? I dont think so.
Imagine a kid sees his father tinkering under the sink with tools and mimics him. Oh, so cute. But what if this two year old says excuse me totty, then goes over and really fixes the sink. Not cute. Just mature. Perhaps this is why parents and teachers train kids to just copy things. They dont want real. Just cute.
A similar point. Parents want their kids to live at home when they are in yeshiva. Is that really whats best for them?? Yeah right. They just want their kids to be nearby and come home at night and eat supper with them and be cute. Oh, how cute. What about having rabbeim who are involved with their every action during the decisive high school years doing everything with daas torah (for the purpose of this discussion). Assuming both schools to be equal there is a huge benefit in being away from their home environment and having the ability to really change. But do parents care? Nope they want their kids to just be cute, not mature.December 26, 2011 2:21 am at 2:21 am #838389
Assuming both schools to be equal there is a huge benefit in being away from their home environment and having the ability to really change.
That’s a controdiction. If both schools are equal but there is a advantage to having a dormatory, than the non-dormitory school would have to have a different advantage to make up for the lack of a dormitory.December 26, 2011 2:27 am at 2:27 am #838390
oh you silly goose you.
How do you like my first point?December 26, 2011 4:03 am at 4:03 am #838391
Funny enough but most Mechanchim are against high school kids dorming in normal situations. where in the world did you make up this fact that dorming is better.December 26, 2011 4:04 am at 4:04 am #838392
i assume you like my first point?December 26, 2011 4:25 am at 4:25 am #838393
I think its disgusting.when parents send their.children away during highschool! The kid should have afamily to come to everyday not just for he holidays!!December 26, 2011 4:30 am at 4:30 am #838394
chill, man. How do the kids feel about it? Oh fine? thats what I thought. Its you who want your kid to come home everyday. dont blame your chisronos on your kid. what did he do to deserve that??December 26, 2011 4:35 am at 4:35 am #838395
your first point was cuteDecember 26, 2011 4:38 am at 4:38 am #838396
“…I think its disgusting.when parents send their.children away during high school…!”
I think that’s it’s a big mistake to send kids away just because everyone else thinks its in style, whether it makes sense for their child or not.
There seems to be a trend to not trust parents to bring up their own children; long school day, summer camp, dorming in high school.
The OP states this outright; “..What about having rabbeim who are involved with their every action during the decisive high school years doing everything with daas torah…”December 26, 2011 4:56 am at 4:56 am #838397
Two points- one about dorming, one about the OP’s point.
1- Saying “assuming they’re equal” is very difficult because no two Yeshivos will be. Dorming is a risk. I started dorming around halfway through 9th Grade (I lived less than a ten-minute drive from my house) and although I was surrounded by my Rabbeim during the day (just like before I dormed) at night I was surrounded by a bunch of high school kids- some whom were good influences, some who weren’t. For some being surrounded by those learning 24/7 is a very good thing, but sometimes it’s better to be able to leave the bad influences behind. It’s a case-by-case decision that can’t be made in one sweeping statement.
2- This completely depends on the parent. Some parents are like that, some aren’t. Those that are have to speculate whether or not that’s a good idea, but that being said, do you really want a six-year old to be fixing the sink? He shouldn’t have to be that mature yet, and we see it as a tragedy when an eleven-year old have to take over as the “man” of the house. Kids should have their childhood and shouldn’t have to act mature until they’re of that age. Until then pretending to be is cute, and that’s a good thing.December 26, 2011 4:58 am at 4:58 am #838398
I disagree with my brother here. I think staying at home is usually better, if the in town school is appropriate, and the parents are good parents.
This leads to good results.
See, when the in town school is not appropriate, then all parents send out of town.
When the in town school is appropriate, then only the bad parents send out of town, which is good.December 26, 2011 5:01 am at 5:01 am #838399
yah I suppose i dont trust parents. I dont trust rabbeim either, but I still dont trust parentsDecember 26, 2011 5:41 am at 5:41 am #838400
The apostrophe usage in the title is way too intelligible. I would advise altering it.December 26, 2011 7:58 am at 7:58 am #838401
“But do parents care? Nope they want their kids to just be cute, not mature. “
disagree with your premise.
but as mexipal said, it’s cute.December 26, 2011 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #838402
Barshattya- What kid would want to be sent away? He has.his.family and.friends at home. Ask the kid what he wants to.do! Most kids I know who were sent away during highschool, went way off the derech Bc of the too much freedom they had.December 26, 2011 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #838403
Yeah, well, it aint easy raising parents.December 26, 2011 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #838404
I don’t think there are so many parents who are like you describe – want their kids near by to have them at the supper table. Most of us realize they can’t be tied to Mommy’s apron strings forever, and B”H we lead busy lives so we’re not so lonely without them.
There’s pros and cons to each situation as already mentioned above. As a parent of high school boys who’ve been both out of town and in town –
In a dorm yeshiva, the boy often can grow much more as he is in a seviva where all is focused on learning, not busy with narishkeiten so much, and doesn’t come home and want to run to various stores and eateries, etc. That’s if it’s a strong yeshiva – he’ll come home wearing his tztizis out, take his learning much more seriously, etc.
But then there’s a weaker boy who you really want to keep an eye on him more, see him daily so his “look” doesn’t change without you being aware of it. You are more aware of his bedtime, when he’s on the phone at night (so far no texting), his friends, the devices they may have. Much more aware than you’d be if he was away.December 26, 2011 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #838405
I have never gotten so frustrated reading anything on this site before. What is the point of procreating if we are not going to be involved in the child rearing? It is not the Rabbeim who are responsible for raising our children. That is our job. That is why Hashem gave us the beautiful bracha to be able to have children, and have a family. And kollel-wife, maybe YOU do not like to have dinner with your children, and maybe YOU find it hard(?) that sometimes your sons may want to go get a nosh at the store, but that is part of life. You get married, you raise a family, and you spend the rest of your days trying to build on that family and ensure YOUR values and the values of Torah within them. Why is it that so many of you want to send your young children away? So that if they go off the derech you can say ” oh its not me i had nothing to do with their upbringing?”.
And to those of you who said you dont trust parents to raise their OWN children? Who are we as individuals or as a whole to decide how ANY child is to be raised other than our own? If i want to raise my child to have no midos, nebach but that’s MY choice. That is why it would be MY child. This is a silly thread and it makes me sad that there are beautiful children out there who’s parents cant wait to send them off.
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