Which One is Outrageous?! πŸ–±οΈπŸ’°πŸ–±οΈπŸ’°

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Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)
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  • #1789563

    catch yourself
    Participant
    #1789578

    Meno
    Participant

    I don’t get what’s outrageous about the first one.

    She was resisting arrest, and it wasn’t even particularly violent.

    Are cops supposed to give tickets only to those who agree to receive them?

    #1789601

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    IMHO, the second story about callig a soldier a “shiksa”.

    #1789605

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Both sides were “wrong”. The woman should have responded to a lawful directive from the police and not resisted. At the same time, police should be trained to deal with these situations and “de-escalate” the situation. Here, we don’t know for certain the level of resistance to the police and whether there might have been alternative ways to deal with this woman.

    #1789641

    Meno
    Participant

    Obviously you can’t see the whole picture just from the videos, but if a police officer asked me for ID (especially after breaking the law) and I just walked away, I would fully expect him/her to use force to stop me.

    #1789714

    Nechomah
    Participant

    What was the point of arresting her for a 100 shekel fine for crossing not in a crosswalk? Is this an arrest-able crime?

    #1789847

    chash
    Participant

    theres something called legal harassment, would you be ok for being ticketed for not crossing in the crosswalk? then having to identify yourself like in nazi germany?

    #1789848

    chash
    Participant

    yes you might, but do you even know your legal rights? lets be straight about this, a woman Jwalked, have you never j walked? or how about ever crossed the street out of the crosswalk or when the light was red to pedestrians? You’d really be fine with a cop ticketing you for that?
    And demanding id, besides for being totalitarian, would you really be? ok you guys are obviously just good cops who are upholding the safety and integrity of our city, sure, let me tell you my name and address?!
    And specifically in israel where unfortunately the climate is quite volatile, with the secularists [and their cops] constantly harassing the orthodox with both venom and violence. Your just trying to be practical in a story which has non of it, dont be the philosopher on the football field. it doesnt belong there.

    #1789868

    Meno
    Participant

    theres something called legal harassment, would you be ok for being ticketed for not crossing in the crosswalk?

    Sure, if that’s the law

    then having to identify yourself like in nazi germany?

    Well how else will they give me a ticket?

    lets be straight about this, a woman Jwalked, have you never j walked? or how about ever crossed the street out of the crosswalk or when the light was red to pedestrians?

    I try not to, because as a driver it bothers me when other people do it, and because it’s the law. Though I have never walked away while a cop was talking to me.

    You’d really be fine with a cop ticketing you for that?

    Yes

    And demanding id, besides for being totalitarian, would you really be?

    Yes. It’s happened to me before.

    ok you guys are obviously just good cops who are upholding the safety and integrity of our city, sure, let me tell you my name and address?!

    Well if you aren’t ok with that, then don’t break the law.

    Now let me ask you a question: What if she were a driver running a red light rather than a pedestrian?

    #1790122

    Joseph
    Participant

    The Israeli police are well known to be violent thugs.

    #1790162

    Meno
    Participant

    Joseph and chash,

    What would have been an appropriate response by the police in this situation?

    #1790164

    chash
    Participant

    @ meno, being that the responsibility of the police are to protect the citizenry, the appropriate response would be to inform her of the law and just move on, there doesnt have to be a brouhaha for every minor infraction. Furthermore, you write you’d be ok with with being ticketed for not walking in the crosswalk if thats the law. Lets be clear, the law is composed to have a textual standard for upholding those things that are correct and just, not to become the be all and end all. thats why we have times where laws are overturned or amended. When that law is applied legally but in a spirit of entrapment, for citizens who are otherwise law abiding, you now have “ivus hadin” perversion of the law.
    On a personal note, you say you’d be ok with being ticketed if it was the law, it is commendable on your part to act with sacrifice in the name of upholding the rule of law even when unjustly targeted, yet that would not preclude others and those in power from being responsible to stand up for justice.
    Also, lets reiterate the main point, infortunately, the secularists in israel are so hateful of the orthodox, that they cannot be trusted to execute fair justice, the woman being arrested rightfully felt that she was being accosted by thugs, not reprimanded for an infraction, and her fears are confirmed by the cops violence, all for a simple matter which was blown up for no reason.

    #1790166

    catch yourself
    Participant

    “Also, lets reiterate the main point, infortunately (sic), the secularists in israel (sic) are so hateful of the orthodox…”

    This gets to precisely the point I wanted to make in the op. If they get treated anything like the soldier who went to Selichos, it is hard to blame them for that attitude. Not to downplay the wrongdoings of others, but let’s clean our own house.

    #1790189

    Joseph
    Participant

    Meno,

    Have you ever heard of NYPD issuing a ticket for Jay walking? I heard of it once. The officer was reassigned as a punishment.

    #1790191

    Meno
    Participant

    According the the Wall Street Journal, NYPD issued 630 citations for jaywalking in 2013

    #1793493

    When that law is applied legally but in a spirit of entrapment, for citizens who
    are otherwise law abiding, you now have β€œivus hadin” perversion of the law.

    “The location is known to have traffic police monitoring the street
    for infractions on a consistent basis,” says YWN. And being
    “otherwise law-abiding” doesn’t mean an instance of law-breaking
    should be ignored.
    (Also, I don’t think that’s how the term ivus hadin is usually used in a Torah context.)

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