December 25, 2015 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #616899
Who composed the World Famous Sholom Aleichem? I am referring to the one that is sung in the majority of Jewish houses around the world. Not the one Chasidim sing or the one that was composed by R Shmuel Brazil. If I knew how to write music , I would write the notes, but I am sure you know which one I am referring toDecember 25, 2015 8:04 pm at 8:04 pm #1119705
A conservative rabbi named Israel Goldfarb.December 25, 2015 9:00 pm at 9:00 pm #1119706Mashiach AgentMember
Are you talking about the words of the song? Ir do you mean the tune that is sang in most homes? From the way you wrote it . It sounds like you are referring to a certain tuneDecember 26, 2015 11:07 pm at 11:07 pm #1119707Der Yid Der TrollMember
Why don’t you sing it to us so we can know what you mean?December 27, 2015 1:04 am at 1:04 am #1119708Little FroggieParticipant
DY, for real??December 27, 2015 1:38 am at 1:38 am #1119709
DY is for real, Just did a Google search and it is accurate. So that beckons the Multi Million Dollar question, how can Millions of Orthodox Jews worldwide, sing a song with such holy words to the tune that was composed by a Conservative Rabbi?December 27, 2015 1:58 am at 1:58 am #1119710
Because the vast majority never knew its origin before it became ubiquitous. If they did, it never would have become so popular.December 27, 2015 3:16 am at 3:16 am #1119711
LF, yes, for real.December 27, 2015 3:42 am at 3:42 am #1119712malei daas torahMember
i heard the same guy wrote “hava nagila”December 27, 2015 3:55 am at 3:55 am #1119713
I read otherwise.December 27, 2015 4:22 am at 4:22 am #1119714Little FroggieParticipant
Did he make the song when he was off? It sounds (at least to my ears) as something Jewish.December 27, 2015 6:53 am at 6:53 am #1119715
It is a very pretty tune. I don’t think a non frum person, even an apikores, is necessarily incapable of composing a beautiful, even Jewish sounding melody.December 27, 2015 8:14 am at 8:14 am #1119716knakerParticipant
Just like the world famous Maoz Tzur that everybody sings is originally a chri**ian hymn from the church! and lots of chasidishe nigunim were originally Russian or Polish marches and lots of Sefardi piyutim were originally composed by great Arabic composers (even for example by Umm Kulthum – an Egyptian anti semitic shikseh)and they were incorporated into the tefilah and sung even by great mekubalim!!
This is a very old issue and lots has been written about it. There is a ganse inyan (which time and patience doesn’t allow..) about being ‘mekadesh’ a nigun. Even from a tomei source!
Ahh so you’re gonna ask – so why do we go so mad when modern jewish singers convert a song by any of the modern goyim?? The answer is very simple. It all depends primarily on the type of song, who it was converted by, how it was converted, WHY was it converted etc etc. You need just a little bit of neshama to detect the difference between for example Shalom alechem and some of the new stuff by …I wont mention names…December 27, 2015 11:18 am at 11:18 am #1119717
The original melody for Maoz Tzur was originally a folk song, not a church song (otherwise it would have been assur al pi din).December 27, 2015 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #1119718
DY, come to think of it, the world famous heart warming, Vetiher Rabbi Yishmael was composed by Chazzan Kwartin who wad not frum, so it’s not a contradiction to have a non frum person compose a beautiful songDecember 27, 2015 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #1119719rabbiofberlinParticipant
The only true and genuine “Jewish” songs are by R”Shlomo Carlebach z’l !December 27, 2015 11:41 pm at 11:41 pm #1119720Veltz MeshugenerMember
Daas Yochid, I hope you are incorrect, because Mendy Wald’s song “R’ Chanina Ben Tradyon” was taken from a song called “Via Dolorosa” which is as churchy as can be.December 27, 2015 11:49 pm at 11:49 pm #1119721
I am unfamiliar with that song (either version), and I’m not Mendy Wald’s posek. I will bl”n try to find you a mareh makom.
BTW (probably belatedly) hatzlochoh in your job and career.December 28, 2015 12:03 am at 12:03 am #1119722
I’m sorry, I misremembered.
R’ Moshe says it’s not assur, but it’s ????? ????.December 28, 2015 12:05 am at 12:05 am #1119723
Mendy Wald! Whatever happened to Mendy… I haven’t heard of him in ages.December 28, 2015 12:43 am at 12:43 am #1119724SayIDidIt™Participant
malei daas torah
i heard the same guy wrote “hava nagila”
Abraham Zevi Idelsohn, a professor at Hebrew University, began cataloging all known Jewish music and teaching classes in musical composition; one of his students was a promising cantorial student, Moshe Nathanson, who (with the rest of his class) was presented by the professor with a 19th-century, slow, melodious, chant (niggun or nigun) and assigned to add rhythm and words to fashion a modern Hebrew song. There are competing claims regarding Hava Nagila’s composer, with both Idelsohn and Nathanson being suggested.
The niggun he presented has been attributed to the Sadigurer Chasidim, who lived in what is now Ukraine, which uses the Phrygian dominant scale common in music of Transylvania. The commonly used text was probably refined by Idelsohn. [original research?]
In 1918, the song was one of the first songs designed to unite the early Yishuv [Jewish enterprise] that arose after the British victory in Palestine during World War I and the Balfour Declaration, declaring a national Jewish homeland in the lands newly liberated from Turkey by the Allies and entrusted to Britain under the Treaty of Versailles. Although Psalm 118 (verse 24) of the Hebrew Bible may have been a source for the text of “Hava Nagila”, the expression of the song and its accompanying hora (“circle”) dance was entirely secular in its outlook.
SiDi™December 28, 2015 1:27 am at 1:27 am #1119725lesschumrasParticipant
Actually,I believe the reason we object to current songs and not old ones is because we don’t/didn’t know the source of the old ones. In 50 years, the objections to current songs will disappear as well.
This topic also highlights that most people have no clue as to when portions of our “thousands years old” mesora was actually created ( of by whom )December 28, 2015 1:30 am at 1:30 am #1119726
I believe the reason we object to the current songs is because of the musical style.December 28, 2015 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #1119728screwdriverdelightParticipant
I think the tune for Shalom Aleichem is actually from the beis hamikdash.December 28, 2015 8:56 pm at 8:56 pm #1119729
sdd, which tune of S”A, specifically, are you referring to?December 28, 2015 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #1119730lesschumrasParticipant
Scared, your source pleaseDecember 29, 2015 11:00 pm at 11:00 pm #1119731pcozMember
A lot of shuls like singing Adon Olam to a variation of Cielito Lindo.December 30, 2015 2:55 pm at 2:55 pm #1119732oomisParticipant
RoB, the only true Jewish melodies BEFORE Reb Shlomo came from the Leviim in the Beis Hamikdash. Chazzanim throughout the ages have passed down “true” Jewish melodies and nussach for centuries. As far as I am concerned a melody is a melody. You can uplift it to higher kedusha, based on your usage of it, no matter where it comes from (and no, I would not include “Silent Night” or any other Specifically religious X-mas song, in that remark).December 31, 2015 4:08 am at 4:08 am #1119733☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
(Welcome back, knaker.)
According to a teshuva of R’ Moshe quoted here –
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/dilemma-involving-jewish-singers/page/2#post-547618 – it is assur to listen to church
music, so if you want to adapt any, you’ll have to learn it from sheets.
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