who is "The Gadol Haddar" of America
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- This topic has 177 replies, 55 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 6 months ago by MrSarahLevine613.
November 3, 2018 8:22 pm at 8:22 pm #1615872LoshenhoraParticipant
Is it not the Gateshead rov ?November 3, 2018 8:22 pm at 8:22 pm #1615881
There is no “Gadol Hador” in America. Ki MITZION tetze Torah. You cannot compare the level of Torah of Israel to that of America. It’s like comparing a Av Bet Din to a Bar Mitzvah boy. Besides, Gadol Hador is a recent (Ashkenazic) invention. Back in the day, there was a Rav of one’s city, community, etc and that’s who people would go to for questions.November 3, 2018 8:22 pm at 8:22 pm #1615892make a pointParticipant
The Sephardic Yeshivah world doesn’t move without the word of Hacham Yosef Harari-Rafoul
but do we count Sephardim?November 3, 2018 9:00 pm at 9:00 pm #1616084crazykanoiyParticipant
If you read the frum media you would conclude that it is Donald Trump.November 4, 2018 8:21 am at 8:21 am #16161911Participant
If you read Jewish lib media, it’s Obama.November 4, 2018 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #1616522BABAKAMAParticipant
how about rav yaakov bender and rabbi pinchos lipshutz?
they lead in giving daas torah every weekNovember 4, 2018 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #1616636Do the right thingParticipant
RDF?November 4, 2018 4:41 pm at 4:41 pm #1616668
Skulener Rebbe.November 4, 2018 5:12 pm at 5:12 pm #1616684
yabia omer- what are you ‘hocking’ that’s utterly cookoo.
I assume the true answer in America is R’ Shmuel or R’ Dovid. I believe are held by their esteemed colleagues to be above the rest. If we’re handling kano’im, which we’re not, they obviously would not fit the bill.November 4, 2018 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #1616697
Toi: Rav Aharon added Rav Dovid to the Moetzes and Rav Dovid generally aligns with Rav Aharon (who apparently is the most powerful voice) on it.November 4, 2018 9:49 pm at 9:49 pm #1616788apushatayidParticipant
What a waste of pixels. Whoever you write, someone will write something else. Even Moshe rabenu had his eruv rav.November 4, 2018 9:51 pm at 9:51 pm #1616793Uncle BenParticipant
Joseph; When & where do the Moetzes make their deliberations public?November 4, 2018 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #1616824
Uncle Ben: Sometimes they issue a statement. Generally they don’t make it public. But even when they don’t some folks are usually privy to it nevertheless.November 5, 2018 7:03 am at 7:03 am #1616931
Joseph- R Dovid is the foremost posek in NA, regarded as such by everyone afaik. I suppose R’ Shmuel and R Shloime Miller would come in 2nd/3rd in whatever order you decide. I don’t pretend to be privy to the deliberations of any moetzeses, and you can believe what you want, but R Dovid is held in higher regard than R Ahron. You just like him because he’s also a pretty intense kanoi. Say it aint so, joe.November 5, 2018 8:37 am at 8:37 am #1617023
Toi: Foremost posek doesn’t always make one the foremost godol hador. Rav Shteinman wasn’t the foremost posek but was the foremost godol.November 5, 2018 8:37 am at 8:37 am #1617025
On the Moetzes Rav Aharon, Rav Dovid, Rav Wachtfogel, Rav Feldman and Rav Kotler are generally on the same page with each other.November 5, 2018 8:37 am at 8:37 am #1617026
Toi: Rav Miller shlita is considered to be one of the biggest kanoim as well.November 5, 2018 9:34 am at 9:34 am #1617089
On the Moetzes Rav Aharon, Rav Dovid, Rav Wachtfogel, Rav Feldman and Rav Kotler are generally on the same page with each other.
Same book ? Maybe.
Same page hardly ever.
Especially rav ahron and rav dovid. These 2 are never on the same page, even when thier signature’s appear on a kol koreyNovember 5, 2018 10:27 am at 10:27 am #1617303
says who??November 5, 2018 10:27 am at 10:27 am #1617414Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant
I think Rav Dovid and Rabbi Kamenetsky are more referenced as gadolim at least in the Balhabatish world. Along with the Israeli poskim, of course. I do not often hear people bring down shittas from most of the other names being mentioned here.
It’s all just anecdotal evidence, though. Most people don’t try to call the biggest rabbi of the generation every time they have a shailah.November 5, 2018 10:27 am at 10:27 am #1617419
Takes2: You have no idea what you’re talking about. Rav Dovid and Rav Aharon are almost always on the same page, more than anyone else in fact. Indeed, it was Rav Aharon who brought Rav Dovid unto the Moetzes.November 5, 2018 10:37 am at 10:37 am #1617390
I have one question that no one will be able to properly answer. Who decides who is and who is not the “Gadol”?
Is there some sort of council that we are all bound to that decides? And isn’t it a little yehoradik to even have an opinion on the matter? Who are we to decide such things?
Furthermore, it is possible that there is a Talmid Chacham in some town that no one talks about who is greater in chochma than who we consider the Gedolim. Because he is not mefursam, does that take away from his Gadlus?
Like I say, “Gadol Hador” is a recent (Ashkenazic) invention. La haya velo nivra. Yes there were people that were Gadol BaTorah and whose opinions we follow (Rambam, Noda BIhuda, etc.) but for the VAST majority of Jews, they consulted with their local rav or Dayan. They did not travel to Jerusalem and line up to ask a 3 second question to a rabbi.
Finally, what do you guys mean by “Kanoi”? If you mean someone who is fanatical, then why is that a Ma’ala that should be valued? In our lands, fanaticism did not exist and was not valued. All of our rabbis were pleasant, wise and moderate. Rabbis who scream “Reshoim! Gevaald!” do not impress us. It shows a lack of substance. You guys will never understand this point of view because it is not in your spiritual DNA to understand it. Hamevin yavin.November 5, 2018 11:11 am at 11:11 am #1617439MenoParticipant
I have one question that no one will be able to properly answer. Who decides who is and who is not the “Gadol”?
What do you think the purpose of this thread is?November 5, 2018 11:11 am at 11:11 am #1617443November 5, 2018 11:12 am at 11:12 am #1617447
Yabia: Sephardim also have kanoim like Pinchas who will stick a dagger into someone who befarhesia stampedes against Torah law.November 5, 2018 12:35 pm at 12:35 pm #1617467
“Is a recent invention”
though it wasn’t relatively realistic until
Rav Yitzchok Elchonon At his hesped was mourned repeatedly
as Rabban Shel Kol Bnei HaGolah
They asked the Maspid “Why did you go at length to say this why didn’t you just say The Gadol Hadar”
אז רב יהושע לייב ווינט בירושליםNovember 5, 2018 12:35 pm at 12:35 pm #1617470StuartWParticipant
The fact that there are 125 plus posts on this thread os proof that there is no universally-accepted gadol hador at this time.
Sorry folks, now you can back to your lives.November 5, 2018 1:18 pm at 1:18 pm #1617505apushatayidParticipant
Stewart Rosen. He is President. (thank you Manta).November 5, 2018 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #1617634
Takes2: You have no idea what you’re talking about. Rav Dovid and Rav Aharon are almost always on the same page, more than anyone else in fact. Indeed, it was Rav Aharon who brought Rav Dovid unto the Moetzes.
Joseph. U can try bring proof from today till the cows come home but i will tell u again tjat they are not on the same page for the most part. I know this first hand because I’m mishpacha with rav dovid. And i know othereose. Im not at liberty to say more.November 5, 2018 4:47 pm at 4:47 pm #1617655
Joe- Honestly, when you categorically state that people don’t know what they’re talking about, you’re trying to win an argument with a sledgehammer. Why in the world would anyone take you seriously when you base your opinions on some sort of secret access to how other Gedolim relate to each other. Funny that you think R” Shteinman wasthe GH, I definitely had you pinned for an eitznik…November 5, 2018 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #1617720FerdParticipant
rav elya brudny makes every single decision in the agudah. the novaminsker not only wanted him to jojin the moetes a few years ago, but wanted to hand him the reigns as the “rosh hamoetzes”. rav brudny refused, but it is a known fact that he makes every single decision and the agudah board speaks to him daily.November 5, 2018 4:58 pm at 4:58 pm #1617719achdusParticipant
Joseph has no clue what he is talking about. I truthfully do not know where to even start from.
#1- Rav Wachtfogel has never in his entire life even been to a Moetzes meeting. He has nothing to do with the Agudah. he has never even been to an Agudah convention, nor a Agudah dinner.
#2- Rav Dovid hasnever in his entire life ever said one word other tahn “when is Mincha” at a meeting. So no idea where anyone can possibly know who he sides with.
#3- Rav Aron is not “apparently is the most powerful voice” on the Moetzes. Perhaps 10 years ago.November 5, 2018 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #1617749
I happen to be mishpacha With Reb Dovid also
And while you having to be right about this one
For virtually everything else shows a dubious connection
Rav Shmuel Told me albeit several Years ago
the powers are R Aaron Schechter and the NovoMinskerNovember 5, 2018 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #1617764Do the right thingParticipant
I forgot, can someone remind me, what is it that the Agudah does for us?November 5, 2018 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #1617839TRUMP FANParticipant
i think the gadol hador is haham yosef harari raful shlitaNovember 8, 2018 11:57 pm at 11:57 pm #1620475sefardi27Participant
To make a point:Why would Sephardim not count are they not jewish!? Do they not have gdolim!? Start thinking with achdus.November 9, 2018 7:26 am at 7:26 am #1620514
Sephardic Jews had a ראשון לציון and חכם בשיNovember 9, 2018 9:02 am at 9:02 am #1620544
The Rashkebhag is the Godol HaDor, of course.November 9, 2018 11:44 am at 11:44 am #1620596Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant
Wait, Pinchas was Sphardi? Hm, must be a midrash I hadn’t learned yet.November 9, 2018 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #1620649zahavasdadParticipant
The Agudah is more of a political organization than a Halachic oneNovember 18, 2018 9:31 am at 9:31 am #1625370
The Agudah is a holy organization.November 18, 2018 9:59 am at 9:59 am #1625396
Very wholy indeed.
More wholy then a slice of swiss cheeseNovember 18, 2018 10:55 am at 10:55 am #1625490MenoParticipant
Swiss cheese is not wholy at all.
Actually nothing is wholy.November 18, 2018 2:16 pm at 2:16 pm #1625520american_yerushalmiParticipant
To ascertain who is the premier orthopedic surgeon in the U.S. (or anywhere else), do we ask the Uber drivers in NY, the restaurant owners, or maybe the medical students studying in the local medical schools? Answer: none of the above. The top orthopedic surgeons all know who among them is the greatest expert. It is THEIR opinion that decides the matter. That’s how we determine the most qualified orthopedic surgeon.
Le’havdil, it’s similar regarding gadlus ba’Torah. The opinion of laymen, of frum professionals, or various shul rabbis is immaterial. The biggest Talmidei Chachomim all know who among them is the greatest. That person (or persons — could be more than one) is the gadol hador. It is reasonable that the Talmidei Chachomim in Eretz Yisroel are better acquainted with someone from their midst, and so it’s likely that they will recognize someone who lives in EY. While the scholars in the U.S. might recognize one of their own compatriots as the greatest in the group. So, we can and usually do have different Gedolim for different continents. The main point is that it is determined by other experts, not by non-experts. How wide the rav smiles. how well he sings, how many secular degrees he possesses are not relevant. Greatness in Torah counts — something that can only be measured by others who truly understand greatness in Torah.November 18, 2018 8:58 pm at 8:58 pm #1625773TASParticipant
After american_yerushalmi, what more needs to be said? He is 100% correct.November 18, 2018 8:58 pm at 8:58 pm #1625777TASParticipant
Couldn’t have said it better.November 18, 2018 9:28 pm at 9:28 pm #1625793DrYiddParticipant
the chareidi world has created many batting crowns, sar hatorah, posek hador, gadol hador, rashbehag, etc. etc. typically those so designated are past the age that chazal would allow them to sit on a sanhedrin.
think about it and stop asking meaningless questions. each community needs to choose who to turn to with sheailot. invariably it is your LOR, who should turn to greater individuals as he sees fit.November 18, 2018 11:40 pm at 11:40 pm #1625819YapchikParticipant
Yy JacobsonNovember 18, 2018 11:41 pm at 11:41 pm #1625820Reb EliezerParticipant
DrYidd, It says in Pirkei Avos עשה לך רב which seems to agree with you. The importance is to trust your morei haroeh that he will give you the correct ruling when you need it.November 19, 2018 9:27 am at 9:27 am #1625932MrSarahLevine613Participant
Like many of these discussions, the answer wholly depends on the “definition”. So — in one sense AY is correct, “regarding gadlus ba’Torah [t]he opinion of laymen, of frum professionals, or various shul rabbis is immaterial.” It is meaningless for someone who is not a doctor to opine on who the best doctor is — when it comes to medical knowledge and accumen. However, laymen can give opinions on who is the best doctor when it comes to bedside manner, thoroughness, or attentiveness. I do not have the credentials to determine who knows the most Torah etc. But, i dont think Gadol Ha-Dor, as it is used, means the person with the most knowledge. I understand it to mean who is the leader of the generation that cuts across the spectrum. Certainly , Rav Moshe Feinstein fit the bill. Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach also came close. I dont think that its clear that there is always such a person at any given time.
My charedi child often gives me a hard time on my not having “emunas chachomim” or whatever phrase you prefer (da’as Torah). My friend went to go see a very well known Rabbi in Israel. My friend is a prominent professional and is — for lack of a better description — right wing modern orthodox. He has neither has a beard or a hat. The Rabbi advised him — if i recall the story — to grow peyot and a beard. Why am I bringing this up — and what does this have to do with Gadol HaDor or Emunas Chachomim? It would seem to me — that if you are going to be the Rabbi of All (the Gadol HaDor) then you have to “earn” (maybe there is a better word) — the acceptance of all. If you dont get the acceptance of all and you dont resonate with the greatest number of people (at least within the Orthodox world), then I think the title is not fitting. And most importantly, if i dont believe that a certain Rov understands me — or understands my world — then I do not think that I would/could accept him (whatever that means) as the Gadol Hador. To that end, Rav Moshe and the Lubavitcher Rebbe apparently both had the ability to understand the world outside their own enclaves.
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