who is "The Gadol Haddar" of America

There is no “Gadol Hador” in America. Ki MITZION tetze Torah. You cannot compare the level of Torah of Israel to that of America. It’s like comparing a Av Bet Din to a Bar Mitzvah boy. Besides, Gadol Hador is a recent (Ashkenazic) invention. Back in the day, there was a Rav of one’s city, community, etc and that’s who people would go to for questions.

If you read the frum media you would conclude that it is Donald Trump.

how about rav yaakov bender and rabbi pinchos lipshutz?
they lead in giving daas torah every week

Skulener Rebbe.

Toi: Rav Aharon added Rav Dovid to the Moetzes and Rav Dovid generally aligns with Rav Aharon (who apparently is the most powerful voice) on it.

Joseph; When & where do the Moetzes make their deliberations public?

Joseph- R Dovid is the foremost posek in NA, regarded as such by everyone afaik. I suppose R’ Shmuel and R Shloime Miller would come in 2nd/3rd in whatever order you decide. I don’t pretend to be privy to the deliberations of any moetzeses, and you can believe what you want, but R Dovid is held in higher regard than R Ahron. You just like him because he’s also a pretty intense kanoi. Say it aint so, joe.

On the Moetzes Rav Aharon, Rav Dovid, Rav Wachtfogel, Rav Feldman and Rav Kotler are generally on the same page with each other.

JosephParticipant
On the Moetzes Rav Aharon, Rav Dovid, Rav Wachtfogel, Rav Feldman and Rav Kotler are generally on the same page with each other.
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Same book ? Maybe.
Same page hardly ever.
Especially rav ahron and rav dovid. These 2 are never on the same page, even when thier signature’s appear on a kol korey

I think Rav Dovid and Rabbi Kamenetsky are more referenced as gadolim at least in the Balhabatish world. Along with the Israeli poskim, of course. I do not often hear people bring down shittas from most of the other names being mentioned here.

It’s all just anecdotal evidence, though. Most people don’t try to call the biggest rabbi of the generation every time they have a shailah.

I have one question that no one will be able to properly answer. Who decides who is and who is not the “Gadol”?
Is there some sort of council that we are all bound to that decides? And isn’t it a little yehoradik to even have an opinion on the matter? Who are we to decide such things?

Furthermore, it is possible that there is a Talmid Chacham in some town that no one talks about who is greater in chochma than who we consider the Gedolim. Because he is not mefursam, does that take away from his Gadlus?

Like I say, “Gadol Hador” is a recent (Ashkenazic) invention. La haya velo nivra. Yes there were people that were Gadol BaTorah and whose opinions we follow (Rambam, Noda BIhuda, etc.) but for the VAST majority of Jews, they consulted with their local rav or Dayan. They did not travel to Jerusalem and line up to ask a 3 second question to a rabbi.

Finally, what do you guys mean by “Kanoi”? If you mean someone who is fanatical, then why is that a Ma’ala that should be valued? In our lands, fanaticism did not exist and was not valued. All of our rabbis were pleasant, wise and moderate. Rabbis who scream “Reshoim! Gevaald!” do not impress us. It shows a lack of substance. You guys will never understand this point of view because it is not in your spiritual DNA to understand it. Hamevin yavin.

Yabia:

Rating Gedolim

“Is a recent invention”
False
though it wasn’t relatively realistic until

Rav Yitzchok Elchonon At his hesped was mourned repeatedly
as Rabban Shel Kol Bnei HaGolah

They asked the Maspid “Why did you go at length to say this why didn’t you just say The Gadol Hadar”
Response:
אז רב יהושע לייב ווינט בירושלים

Stewart Rosen. He is President. (thank you Manta).

Joe- Honestly, when you categorically state that people don’t know what they’re talking about, you’re trying to win an argument with a sledgehammer. Why in the world would anyone take you seriously when you base your opinions on some sort of secret access to how other Gedolim relate to each other. Funny that you think R” Shteinman wasthe GH, I definitely had you pinned for an eitznik…

Joseph has no clue what he is talking about. I truthfully do not know where to even start from.

#1- Rav Wachtfogel has never in his entire life even been to a Moetzes meeting. He has nothing to do with the Agudah. he has never even been to an Agudah convention, nor a Agudah dinner.

#2- Rav Dovid hasnever in his entire life ever said one word other tahn “when is Mincha” at a meeting. So no idea where anyone can possibly know who he sides with.

#3- Rav Aron is not “apparently is the most powerful voice” on the Moetzes. Perhaps 10 years ago.

I forgot, can someone remind me, what is it that the Agudah does for us?

To make a point:Why would Sephardim not count are they not jewish!? Do they not have gdolim!? Start thinking with achdus.

The Rashkebhag is the Godol HaDor, of course.

The Agudah is more of a political organization than a Halachic one

Yes Joseph.
Very wholy indeed.
More wholy then a slice of swiss cheese

To ascertain who is the premier orthopedic surgeon in the U.S. (or anywhere else), do we ask the Uber drivers in NY, the restaurant owners, or maybe the medical students studying in the local medical schools? Answer: none of the above. The top orthopedic surgeons all know who among them is the greatest expert. It is THEIR opinion that decides the matter. That’s how we determine the most qualified orthopedic surgeon.
Le’havdil, it’s similar regarding gadlus ba’Torah. The opinion of laymen, of frum professionals, or various shul rabbis is immaterial. The biggest Talmidei Chachomim all know who among them is the greatest. That person (or persons — could be more than one) is the gadol hador. It is reasonable that the Talmidei Chachomim in Eretz Yisroel are better acquainted with someone from their midst, and so it’s likely that they will recognize someone who lives in EY. While the scholars in the U.S. might recognize one of their own compatriots as the greatest in the group. So, we can and usually do have different Gedolim for different continents. The main point is that it is determined by other experts, not by non-experts. How wide the rav smiles. how well he sings, how many secular degrees he possesses are not relevant. Greatness in Torah counts — something that can only be measured by others who truly understand greatness in Torah.

american_yerushalmi +1
Couldn’t have said it better.

Yy Jacobson

Like many of these discussions, the answer wholly depends on the “definition”. So — in one sense AY is correct, “regarding gadlus ba’Torah [t]he opinion of laymen, of frum professionals, or various shul rabbis is immaterial.” It is meaningless for someone who is not a doctor to opine on who the best doctor is — when it comes to medical knowledge and accumen. However, laymen can give opinions on who is the best doctor when it comes to bedside manner, thoroughness, or attentiveness. I do not have the credentials to determine who knows the most Torah etc. But, i dont think Gadol Ha-Dor, as it is used, means the person with the most knowledge. I understand it to mean who is the leader of the generation that cuts across the spectrum. Certainly , Rav Moshe Feinstein fit the bill. Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach also came close. I dont think that its clear that there is always such a person at any given time.

My charedi child often gives me a hard time on my not having “emunas chachomim” or whatever phrase you prefer (da’as Torah). My friend went to go see a very well known Rabbi in Israel. My friend is a prominent professional and is — for lack of a better description — right wing modern orthodox. He has neither has a beard or a hat. The Rabbi advised him — if i recall the story — to grow peyot and a beard. Why am I bringing this up — and what does this have to do with Gadol HaDor or Emunas Chachomim? It would seem to me — that if you are going to be the Rabbi of All (the Gadol HaDor) then you have to “earn” (maybe there is a better word) — the acceptance of all. If you dont get the acceptance of all and you dont resonate with the greatest number of people (at least within the Orthodox world), then I think the title is not fitting. And most importantly, if i dont believe that a certain Rov understands me — or understands my world — then I do not think that I would/could accept him (whatever that means) as the Gadol Hador. To that end, Rav Moshe and the Lubavitcher Rebbe apparently both had the ability to understand the world outside their own enclaves.