July 19, 2012 1:56 am at 1:56 am #604168choppyParticipant
With today’s devastating loss of the manhig hador, who is the current manhig hador who will get us through these difficult times?July 19, 2012 2:41 am at 2:41 am #898974RSRHMember
I have my manhig, you have your manhig, and yennem has his manhig. With the utmost respect, R. Elyashiv was not really your manhig, though he may have been your manhig’s manhig (or perhaps the connection was even more attenuated). I imagine your own Rav will decide who to refer major questions to now, assuming he ever referred his questions to R. Elyashiv. In any case, I don’t think R. Elyashiv was being manhig anyone for the last year or so, and that those who previously relied on his age direction already chose new poskim, and teachers to fill the void.
Yehi Zichro Baruch. But let us not despair. We have lost leaders before, and new ones are chosen to take their place – often, the new ones already are in place.July 19, 2012 2:49 am at 2:49 am #898975☕️coffee addictParticipant
I think R Aaron Leib Shteirman fits that descriptionJuly 19, 2012 2:58 am at 2:58 am #898976WIYMember
Rav ShteinmanJuly 19, 2012 3:15 am at 3:15 am #898977
Are we having elections? (IOW, I don’t see anything productive coming out of this discussion.)July 19, 2012 3:39 am at 3:39 am #898978
RSRH: I met Rav Eliashev in late January, and he was answering Shailos as strong as ever. (A few weeks later he went to the hospital for the last time.)July 19, 2012 3:39 am at 3:39 am #898979popa_bar_abbaParticipant
1. This is stupid.
2. It doesn’t matter who we think; it matters who the people we listen to think. As RSRH eloquently said.
So you see, nothing has changed for us; I still listen to who I listen to, and you still listen to who you listen to.
But, it seems as if Rav Shteinman is currently being listened to by the Israeli chareidi litvish world. So, I guess he’s up. I don’t think he has the cache that Rav Elyashiv had–yet. Also, I’m not aware that he is a posek the way Rav Elyashiv was.July 19, 2012 3:50 am at 3:50 am #898980choppyParticipant
popa: I don’t think Rav Elazar Menachem Man Shach ztvk’l was famous for being a posek either, yet he was certainly recognized as the manhig hador.July 19, 2012 3:50 am at 3:50 am #898981
#1 should have precluded a #2.July 19, 2012 3:56 am at 3:56 am #898982EnglishmanMember
If Rav Chaim can issue a public letter addressing this issue, I see no reason it isn’t a valid topic.
Rav Chaim Kanievsky: Rav Shteinman Is The Manhig HaDorJuly 19, 2012 4:32 am at 4:32 am #898983147Participant
Rav Ovadiah Yosef shlita as of 4.37PM Israel time, is the current Godol haDor & Manhig haDor.
The Ba’al Mussar haDor clearly is Rav Shlomo Brevda may he have a quick & speedy & full recovery, to recommence his speeches in English to enlighten this weakened generation..July 19, 2012 4:38 am at 4:38 am #898984
It’s valid to quote what R’ Chaim has to say on the matter. I just don’t want to see people expressing their own opinions on who should or shouldn’t be the manhig hador.July 19, 2012 4:40 am at 4:40 am #898985HaLeiViParticipant
Who are we to discuss this complicated question? This is for the newspapers to decide.July 19, 2012 11:26 am at 11:26 am #898986ToiParticipant
oh 147 has spoken. ok guys, lets head on home.July 19, 2012 1:43 pm at 1:43 pm #898987ChortkovParticipant
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Maran-Ks-letter.jpg [PHOTO OF LETTER FROM R’ CHAIM KANIEVSKY SHLITA]
The letter which arrived at the Yated office on Monday, 21 Sivan 5772 from HaGaon HaRav Chaim Kanievsky Shlita was clear, stating the leadership of the generation has been handed over from Maran Posek HaDor HaGaon HaRav Yosef Sholom Elyashiv Shlita to HaGaon HaRav Aaron Leib Shteinman Shlita,July 19, 2012 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #898988
DY: Ad’raba. It is for the generation to choose it’s Manhigim. The Manhig or Posek Hador is not always necessarily the one who knows the most Torah. It’s the people who know incredible amounts of Torah that the people are drawn to and accept. Now, the K’lal for the most part has chosen to listen to whoever R’ Chaim tells them to listen to. But if the K’lal would feel that R’ Shteinman is too moderate (you see the Shteinman=Kook graffiti all over Meah Shearim) then people might not be drawn to him even if R’ Chaim thinks that he is who we should be listening to.July 19, 2012 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #898989Be HappyParticipant
I don’t think we can decide….July 19, 2012 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #898990
It is for the generation to choose it’s Manhigim.
Not through discussion; it kind of happens m’meila, and certainly not online in an anonymous forum.July 19, 2012 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #898991ohr chodeshMember
Rav Shmuel Auerbach shlita
(Who said there is only one manhig hador?)July 19, 2012 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #898992HaLeiViParticipant
Sam, they had that about Reb Elyashiv z”l as well. This whole Gadol Hador concept is mainly for the yeshivishe crowd, and definitely not for Yerushalmis.July 19, 2012 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #898993golferParticipant
Sam2, democracy is not a Jewish concept.
Achrei Rabim LeHatos among a group of talmidei chachamim deciding Halaha or Din.
But the masses, the people, the “klal” are not always to be followed. They chose Shabtai Zvi!
I liked Haleivi’s idea.
Going out to buy a newspaper…July 19, 2012 5:51 pm at 5:51 pm #898994BaalHaboozeParticipant
I can’t beleive no one voted for me yet….
just saying…July 19, 2012 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #898995apushatayidParticipant
At the risk of sounding like a parrot, this thread is foolish. It doesn’t matter who the manhig hador is. What matters is, who your personal manhig is (I hope I am not guilty in assuming you have a manhig). The manhig hador doesn’t answer the shaylos that arise in your kitchen, that come up with respect to the chinuch of your children, your shalom bayis, shidduchim and all other aspects that affect your daily living.July 19, 2012 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #898996
HaLeiVi: The Chasidishe Oilem, just as the Yeshivishe Oilem, have the concept of a Gadol HaDor too. Even if it is done slightly differently.July 19, 2012 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #898997
DY: Good point.July 19, 2012 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #898998repharimMember
A minhag doesn’t get determined by a rabbi but by the majority. If the majority of people in your town davens in a way you don’t normally daven – you have to switch to their way.July 19, 2012 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #898999
Golfer: See what the Abarbanel has to say about “Som Tasim Alecha Melech”.July 19, 2012 7:28 pm at 7:28 pm #899000ToiParticipant
I heard from my rabbeim that klal yisroel chooses the gedolim/manhigim. obviously, this doesn refer to people that dont take halacha and yiras shomayim seriously. so i guess we’l see who becomes the new address for klal yisroels shailos and thats how we’ll know.July 19, 2012 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #899001RSRHMember
Democracy is a very, very Jewish concept. Learn through the hundreds of teshuvos dealing with kehillos – elections, taxes, legislation of takkanos ha-kahal, choosing poskim and dayanim, punishment, individuals freedom and their obligation to the community.July 19, 2012 9:32 pm at 9:32 pm #899002
Repahrim: I don’t think that’s true. Source?July 19, 2012 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm #899003dash™Participant
Who coined that term? And what is the relationship between an ordinary individual (whatever that means) and whoever the Manhig Hador is?July 20, 2012 1:50 am at 1:50 am #899004pcozMember
gadol hador occurs in the gemara in relation to someone who can be dan yechidi
Hashem showed Adam the manhigim of every generationJuly 20, 2012 3:13 am at 3:13 am #899005147Participant
This whole Gadol Hador concept is mainly for the yeshivishe crowd, and definitely not for Yerushalmis.
Actually this entire concept, leHavdil Eleph Havdolos, is for catholics, who specifically elect a pope to be their official manhig.July 20, 2012 3:31 am at 3:31 am #899006
what is the relationship between an ordinary individual and whoever the Manhig Hador is?
Like a father to a son. Or a Rebbe to a Talmid.July 20, 2012 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #899007repharimMember
@sam2 I don’t remember the source, could be the shulchan auruch, ask a rav im sure he will know.
It’s like that popular story where it was a rabbi vs. a court of rabbis were arguing about the halacha. So lone rabbi says if im wrong let the (im using fake examples cuz i don’t remember what they really are) let the walls bend(though i think this one was real), and the walls bent. But the court still said you’re wrong, the rabbi then said let this happen and that happen and it all happened but the court still rejected his claim. So he asks them how can you deny me even after even heaven shows that it is on my side. They simply respond that even if you ARE right you are still wrong because we are the majority and you have to follow us.
And I think there was a commentary on this story saying that when this happened Hashem was smiling in heaven and said my children won against my torah….or something like that. I probably missed a lot of detail and butchered the story horribly but that’s the gist of it.July 20, 2012 9:38 pm at 9:38 pm #899008
Repharim: That story is Bava Metzia 59b, if I recall correctly. And that has nothing to do with a Minhag. And I can guarantee you that it says nowhere in the SH”A that a person who comes to a new community has to change his Nusach Hat’fillah. I believe I recall seeing a T’shuvah which says the opposite of your claim, but I can’t recall where. I’ll look.July 23, 2012 1:11 pm at 1:11 pm #899009ChortkovParticipant
Never mind that – Now that R’ Eliyashiv zt”l was niftar, who will be the new Fiveish of Va’ad Harabannim????October 11, 2012 12:15 am at 12:15 am #899010fortheloveoftorahMember
rav shteimanMay 3, 2022 8:10 am at 8:10 am #2082096n0mesorahParticipant
I wonder if this whole topic is relevant to the present or the past. Both then and now.
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