Who Would You Vote For?

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Viewing 26 posts - 1 through 26 (of 26 total)
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  • #615934

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Two candidates are running in a meaningful election.

    One has vowed to do whatever he can to ban or severely restrict bris milah (and in this hypothetical scenario, has the ability to do so).

    The other will defend bris milah, but has supported immorality, or even lives an immoral life him/herself.

    Do you compromise on values for the sake of pragmatism?

    For which one do you pull the lever?

    #1089689

    I write in Mickey mouse

    #1089690

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I write in Mickey mouse

    Even at risk of the anti-milah candidate getting elected?

    #1089691

    akuperma
    Participant

    We have traditionally support leaders who are friendly to us. This seems to go back very far, noting how hazal speaks favorably of some Romans who were friendly to us, even though we know from other sources that their private lives were hardly indicative of meeting the requirements for Bnei Noach. Whether our historicans consider a leader to be “good” or “bad” is based on whether they were “good for the Jews” or “bad for the Jews” — not on their basis of their private lives, or even how well they did their jobs in areas that didn’t particularly affect us.

    #1089692

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    You need to be pragmatic, In general its better to support a winning candidate than a losing candidate, If you support the losing candidate it can be hard to get what you want and need.

    Would you support a candidate who supports this but is also a friend to the frum community or would you support someone who is against this marriage and does not support things the frum community might need

    #1089693

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Akuperma, that is precisely what I heard from a European born Rosh Hayeshiva.

    So, although I would “hold my nose”, I would vote for the pro-milah candidate, on practical grounds.

    #1089694

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Franz Joseph of Austria one of the last emperors was very good to the Jews but he was a terrible Emperor in the general scheme of things (Like Causing World War I)

    #1089695

    I write in Mickey Mouse

    Even at risk of the anti-milah candidate getting elected?

    Fine then I’ll write in Elmo.

    #1089696

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Fine then I’ll write in Elmo.

    Even at the risk of the immoral candidate being elected?

    #1089697

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I think the only right thing to do if neither candidate fits your values is run in that election.

    #1089698

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Daas Yochid, I need more information. Is the second candidate personally immoral, but his immorality does not affect/influence his political positions? Or are his political positions immoral (ex. he promotes “Shechivas Behaimah” amongst the general populace)?

    #1089699

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    RY, I’m not looking at the anti-milah candidate as a value issue, but as a practical one.

    Also, I was knocked out in the primary.

    #1089700

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Good question, gavra. Nu, so answer for both.

    My question didn’t actually make mention of how his/her immoral beliefs or lifestyle would affect his/her job performance, but sure, you can factor that in.

    Perhaps, depending on the degree, my position might change.

    #1089701

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    I don’t care what a pollution does in the bedroom if he votes the Torah way. Us that as a guideline, and “Ten L’Chacham V’Yachkim Od”.

    (typo intended)

    #1089702

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    You intended to misspell the word “use”?

    #1089703

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    You intended to misspell the word “use”?

    😛

    #1089704

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Politics is one thing, a better is when you come into personal contact

    What if you boss was one, calling your boss an abomination likely wont get you a raise and might get your fired

    What if one comes in for a job interview or wants to rent an apartment from you, Its against the law to discriminate

    Or just what if a co-worker is one and you call them an abomnination (creating a hostile workforce)

    #1089706

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    You can’t be “knocked out in the primary” unless you are running as Republican or Democrat.

    #1089707

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Or just what if a co-worker is one and you call them an abomination (creating a hostile workforce)

    Abominable Lobster Eater! 🙂

    #1089709

    YW Moderator-127
    Moderator

    Re-submitting deleted posts is grounds for blocking.

    #1089710

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    ZD, I agree that it’s not a good idea to insult someone to his face, especially not your boss.

    #1089712

    About Time
    Participant

    zahavasdad,

    It’s a difficult quandary.

    But standing up for your basic precepts ought to mean more than money

    Yes?

    #1089713

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I once worked at a frum place

    a customer walked in wearing a “pride” button and the frum salesperson asked about the button and the person said in the affirmative. The salesman then said yeech and walked away from the customer.

    The customer then complained to the store manager.

    I take my position because this is the law of the land, teaching people to be how evil they are may cost you, not them. If you think someone is an abomination when you meet one in a situation you may act as such either verbally or non-verbally and it will hurt you, not them

    #1089717

    Joseph
    Participant

    It isn’t against the law to tell a pervert that he is a pervert. (Even if much of secular society disagrees with that designation. It would not be wise though if it will engender violence.) It is also best not to work for a pervert.

    #1089718

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    a customer walked in wearing a “pride” button and the frum salesperson asked about the button and the person said in the affirmative. The salesman then said yeech and walked away from the customer.

    Stupid AND Anti-Torah. Where does it say that you can’t sell good to people who do Avairos? If the customer had a pin saying “I eat live lobster”, would the salesman do the same?

    #1089719

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    You dont always know who your boss might be and it , you might find out later .

    It isn’t against the law to tell a pervert that he is a pervert.

    On the job it certainly is and it might be in the street as well as it might be considered harassment.

    I dont know if the store incident is anti-torah or not, but thankfully the manager (he was frum) diffused the situation and it did not become a greater incident. It would not be a good situation if a bunch of people protested a frum store calling them bigots and it became a news story.

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