November 23, 2022 10:14 am at 10:14 am #2141588
You help the trans movement grow. Biden health secretary is one of them. Drag queens in school – yup that’s something celebrated by Democrats. Infanticide – yup Democrats support late abortion and even upon birth if the mother chooses. So you might not like trump’s tweets but you support furthering the depravity of this country and the destruction of America.November 23, 2022 11:18 am at 11:18 am #2141762jackkParticipant
If you vote Republican you further the proliferation of assault weapons in the hands of every single American.
So you are responsible for all the mass shootings and all the school shootings.
The 19 kids in Uvalde were very alive on May 24th.
So you might love trump’s tweets but you also are supporting furthering the depravity of this country and the destruction of America.November 23, 2022 11:22 am at 11:22 am #2141765
So you are responsible for all the mass shootings and all the school shootings.
Ooo, even for you that’s a stretch. If you want to go there than every car salesman is responsible for every dui4 fatality. Oh please. Mental Healthcare is a shambles, don’t go blaming the guns.November 23, 2022 12:05 pm at 12:05 pm #2141785
I would rather that some goyishe school teach immoral goyishe things (like they’ve always done) than our Yeshivos require beefed up security guards and armed teachers.November 23, 2022 12:06 pm at 12:06 pm #2141779
Are there more people illegally killed by assault weapons every year or legally slaughtered before they’re even born?November 23, 2022 12:16 pm at 12:16 pm #2141796
Also, if Republicans fully get their way, it would completely gut the Kollel system which survives in a large part due to federal handouts like FAFSA, Section 8 HUD, Wellfare, Footstamps, and MedicAid. All of which the GOP has a consistent record of voting against since their belief system is that people should work instead of relying on government aid.November 23, 2022 12:32 pm at 12:32 pm #2141812
You should probably remove the syag and try some chochma. Without guns people with mental health issues won’t kill too many people.November 23, 2022 12:32 pm at 12:32 pm #2141814
You should probably stop reading Rabbi Avigdor Miller’s pamphlets.November 23, 2022 12:40 pm at 12:40 pm #2141821
Hello and welcome.
We weren’t talking about guns, we were talking about gun control laws.November 23, 2022 12:40 pm at 12:40 pm #2141825
Yseribus: That’s a complete fabrication and falsehood. Republicans have consistently voted in favor of funding welfare.November 23, 2022 12:56 pm at 12:56 pm #2141835
alanschwartz: Why would you encourage anyone to stop reading the Torah from a Godol HaDor? Would you rather he read the propaganda and falsehoods you find every day in the New York Times?November 23, 2022 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #2141849
YesNovember 23, 2022 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #2141857
Nelson D Rockefeller was a big proponent of welfare and affordable housingNovember 23, 2022 3:22 pm at 3:22 pm #2141868
Illinois (a republican state) has school vouchers which can be way more benefit than all the other programs combinedNovember 23, 2022 3:22 pm at 3:22 pm #2141869
@ujm Republicans have consistently voted against anything that gives poor people money for decades. Consider literally every healthcare law, from Medicare to Obamacare, that is supposed to eliminate medical debt. They’ve all been pushed by Democrats and fought against by Republicans. Federally funding colleges (which include Yeshivos), increasing handouts like Welfare and Foodstamps, have all been Democrat votes with the GOP firmly standing against it.November 23, 2022 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #2141873
“Illinois (a republican state) has school vouchers”
😳maybe you meant ohio?November 23, 2022 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #2141875
Yseribus: What you are writing is a complete falsehood. Republicans voted to fund Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, WIC, etc.November 23, 2022 5:10 pm at 5:10 pm #2141893
I’m sure you realized by now that for some posters as long as their pushing their party’s agenda the truth is a mere inconvenience.November 23, 2022 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #2141910
Yeah I meant Ohio 🤭November 23, 2022 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #2141911
@ujm I have no love for Democrats, but as Yidden we shouldn’t support baseball teams nor political parties. Both parties are bad. Here are some example headlines:
“Congressional Republicans on Monday… demand a slew of policy changes… including Medicaid funding cuts that could result in millions losing coverage.”
“Why are Republicans attacking WIC: GOP finds new scapegoat for baby formula outrage”
“GOP failure in Congress boosts Medicaid effort in Kansas”
“GOP senator considering blocking school meal funding deal ”
“What happens to the expansion of Medicaid? It would be phased out under all of the Republican bills.”
I’m sure you’re also conveniently forgetting 2014 where the Affordable Care Act was supposed to be the biggest federal medical aid to people who coulndn’t afford insurance and was relentlessly blocked by the Republicans over and over again.November 24, 2022 12:55 am at 12:55 am #2141963
Yseribus: “Headlines” are your Toras Moshe MiSinai? The New York Times is your bible? You believe everything you read? All the headlines and media articles start with a presumption of being misleading, biased and very possibly outright untruthful.
Now you are arguing who wants to give *more* welfare money versus who thinks a lesser dollar figure is the appropriate amount of welfare. That is a completely different question than your previous false assertion that one party ever proposed to completely eliminate welfare, food stamps, Medicaid or Medicare. If Republicans want to fund, let’s hypothetically say, $500 billion a year for welfare whereas Democrats want to fund it with $600 billion, that doesn’t make Democrats better. Otherwise, if someone else proposes to fund it for $700 billion, suddenly the Democrats are the bad guys.November 24, 2022 10:20 am at 10:20 am #2142025
The sink and swim mentality of the Republicans is not Torah view. Similarly, the social liberal view of the Democrats is also not Torah view but that can be avoided.November 24, 2022 10:26 am at 10:26 am #2142027
Really, it can be avoided? How do we avoid seeing men in women’s public bathrooms? How do we avoid being told to call our coworkers they? How can we avoid being obligated to be supportive of little boy clients who talk excitedly about transitioning? Etc etc.November 24, 2022 10:39 am at 10:39 am #2142029
It can be avoided if you live in a very sheltered and restrictive life in KJ or New Square which isn’t the practical really for most people and don’t have any business activity beyond thatNovember 24, 2022 12:31 pm at 12:31 pm #2142057
Except possibly for those who are physically or mentally challenged the US provides many opportunities for everyone to swim on their own. If the only ones getting handouts were those who are truly unable to swim on their own and those who are temporarily in a rough spot- the whole entitlement disaster would be a non-issue.November 24, 2022 12:31 pm at 12:31 pm #2142053LostsparkParticipant
“It can be avoided if you live in a very sheltered and restrictive life in KJ or New Square which isn’t the practical really for most people and don’t have any business activity beyond that”
And this method only biding time before legislation is passed to infiltrate yeshivos to teach our children the goyish “mitzvah” of toivah.November 24, 2022 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #2142077
>>>The sink and swim mentality of the Republicans is not Torah view.
Azov Tozev is only when the person is making his own effort. And it is true that most poskim agree that you have to support a ani who is too lazy to work they don’t suggest it on a societal level. I was also told by Rav Tuvia Godstein ztz’l not to give tzedoka to someone who says he can make more money collecting than working (ask your own shaalos!) I know of plenty of people who say they don’t work because they make more off the programs
And politicians obtaining or staying in power by giving other peoples money to those who will vote for them is certainly not the Torah view. In fact the Gemorah gives that practice as one of the meanings of “Chesed L’Umim Chatas”.November 24, 2022 2:36 pm at 2:36 pm #2142082
He can’t make his own effort if one has no skills and requires a springboard to gain those skills. A person will drown if not taught how to swim before thrown into the water.November 24, 2022 2:39 pm at 2:39 pm #2142084
According to the Torah the father has to teach his son how to swim but if he can’t afford to pay for it, the rich were responsible. Currently the rich don’t do it themselves but pay through taxes that the government should do it. If the government does not do it, the money is not well spent.November 24, 2022 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #2142081
We need a springboard to jump from to be able to swim on our own. I was educated through the CETA training program which was eliminated by President Reagan because he was shortsighted by not seeing an immediate payback. It was instituted by President Nixon. It was the best investment in government training to be able to acquire the skills to gain those jobs which was paid back through taxes.November 24, 2022 2:49 pm at 2:49 pm #2142091
When I took unemployment, I was required to show that I am looking for a job.November 24, 2022 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #2142094
When we talk about toeiva isn’t it a toeiva to hear the views above about helping the less fortunate through your taxes?November 24, 2022 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #2142096Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
It is easy to exaggerate the position of your opponent and make it look ridiculous. Everyone reasonable understands that there is a need for balance between helping and self-sufficiency. I am thinking that every time handouts are given without any controls, we reduce help that might be available to those who truly needs it.November 24, 2022 3:04 pm at 3:04 pm #2142098Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
RebE, unemployment is not a handout, it is a state-run insurance funded by your employer as percentage of your salary.November 24, 2022 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #2142100
There are plenty of entry level openings out there that require no skills (e.g. flipping burgers and stocking shelves). One can easily get a job without even graduating high school that will let them swim and grow from there. There are enough public schools out there that just about anyone can get a high school diploma for practically nothing. So, yes, he can make it on his own without skills or a springboard.
As I said earlier but you failed to address in your numerous posts-
“If the only ones getting handouts were those who are truly unable to swim on their own and those who are temporarily in a rough spot- the whole entitlement disaster would be a non-issue.”November 24, 2022 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #2142102
>>>When we talk about toeiva isn’t it a toeiva to hear the views above about helping the less fortunate through your taxes?
There are no liberal groups who preach giving YOUR money to the less fortunate. They preach giving OTHER peoples money away to do so . They talk about the obligation “society” has to avoid taking responsiblity as individuals to help others
It is a toeiva to hear people talking about helping themselves through OTHER peoples taxes. And it is certainly no Mitzva to forcibly take money from one person to help another.
Gezel is a teoiva too. ..
The gemara does not give it that as one of the explanations for what “Chesed L’Umim Chatas” means but I was told there is a Medrash that says “Chesed L’Umim Chatas” is because they consider forcibly taking money from “A” to give to “B” to be an act of “chesed”November 24, 2022 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #2142117
Smerel and Pepper you seem to agree with Trump so vote for him. I don’t. I am happy to be retired and get Social Security which was instituted by the Democrats who are there to protect it.November 24, 2022 3:38 pm at 3:38 pm #2142120
Nobody mentioned Trump. Is that just the way it goes when someone disagrees with your politics, or maybe proves you wrong on some views you have to be insulting? I keep seeing that but I’m not understanding it.November 24, 2022 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm #2142124
Syag, I would like you to live up to your screen name as silence is golden.November 24, 2022 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #2142128
Why is it so hard for a Liberal to have a normal discussion? You claim to be an intelligent person and I have yet to hear a Liberal back up their beliefs with a valid claim.
I’ve tried having diplomatic discussions with you and other posters who share your political views but I either get no response, an attempt at a personal attack to try and discredit me, a lame excuse (e.g. I have a response but I’m not going to write it) or some sort of mussar that we’re all Yidden so we should try to get along.
Trust me, I love everyone here and would drop everything to help anyone in anyway that I can. I daven for all you Liberals that you should do Teshuva before it’s too late. I judge everyone לכף זכות but השם knows the truth.
When Social Security was created the Democratic Party could be looked up to. The Democratic leadership of those days would be considered Republicans if they were still around.November 24, 2022 4:42 pm at 4:42 pm #2142132
It says in one place that there won’t be any evyon, needy and in another place when there will be a needy? So Rashi resolves the contradiction in depends whether they do the will of Hashem. However, we know that tazadikim who follow the will of Hashem sometimes have to rely on others. Maybe the one who does the will of Hashem refers to the rich who are suppose to support the poor.November 24, 2022 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #2142134
Why does the neshama who has everything come down to this world? Because it doesn’t want nehame dekesufa, bread of shame. People don’t like to take a handout.November 24, 2022 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #2142160
Ask people if they want government handouts
The neshoma doesn’t want handouts but the body doesNovember 24, 2022 9:44 pm at 9:44 pm #2142189
The handouts should be a temporary springboard.November 24, 2022 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #2142197
Reb Eliezer, so you believe government programs/hand outs should be time limited for use only as a temporary springboard period?November 25, 2022 12:10 am at 12:10 am #2142206November 25, 2022 10:04 am at 10:04 am #2142250
>>>The handouts should be a temporary springboard.
If they were I would strongly support them too. But that isn’t remotely what they are.November 25, 2022 10:29 am at 10:29 am #2142253
I’m surprised that you haven’t heard of מופס
פוד סטאמף (food stamps)
סקטון 8 (section 8)
That’s how people survive without going to workNovember 26, 2022 7:29 pm at 7:29 pm #2142383
I get Medicaid when I pay the surplus.November 26, 2022 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #2142392unomminParticipant
Armed populations don’t voluntarily allow themselves to be put
In train boxcars.
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