Why are people still smoking?

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  • #592882

    Jam
    Participant

    Everybody knows smoking is dangerous. Smoking doesn’t discriminate. If u smoke, you will be affected by it in numerous negative ways. If not today, then tomorrow. Its a proven fact. With this in mind, why are there people, especially in our community that are still smoking?

    #845803

    blinky
    Participant

    Everyone knows eating pizza and fries clogs up arteries….

    #845804

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Physical addiction.

    The Wolf

    #845805

    the.nurse
    Member

    peer pressure peer pressure peer pressure peer pressure

    its still considered cool in a lot of boys yeshivos

    #845806

    WIY
    Member

    Jam

    Because once you start its hard to quit and people have little self control. Smoking is addictive its very hard to quit. My bigger question is the kids that start. Any yeshiva kid that starts is a certifiable moron and his parents should teach him a lesson. No more money whatever it takes. Its easy to break the habit in the beginning, but once it gets in there its really tough.

    From an ex smoker.

    #845807

    Sacrilege
    Member

    Why are people still asking these questions?

    #845808

    Homeowner
    Member

    Blinky, actually eating excessive amounts of fatty foods is bad for you. I eat pizza occasionally and my total cholesterol is generally in the 120s.

    Jam, you are correct. I had a rebbe in yeshiva who told us that he believed were the Sanhedrin around today they would asser smoking.

    I have an additional question, unrelated to health. How can you put something in your mouth if you don’t know if it’s kosher? For that matter, how about on Pesach?

    #845809

    blinky
    Participant

    Homeowner- thats right excessive fatty foods is dangerous. I would imagine the same is with excessive smoking no?

    #845810

    Sacrilege
    Member

    At least fatty foods generally smell yummy 🙂

    #845811

    ronrsr
    Member

    everyone who could easily quit has quit. The people who smoke today are either incredibly oblivious to the dangers, or are among those unfortunate souls who have a horrible addiction to nicotine.

    Not everybody’s body reacts to addictive substances the same way. Some people have very strong addictions, and would need much help in overcoming them. Others can just give up an addictive substance and never look back.

    #845812

    Jam
    Participant

    Blinki – There are ways to lower cholesteral and unclog arteries from pizza and fries. Smoking is much more sever, because there isn’t a lot one can do to undue the garbage in their lungs.

    WIY – I understand its an addiction, but wouldn’t a sober person who understands how serious it is find a way to stop? or perhaps is it that people dont think its so sever?

    Sacrilege – I really want to know WHY poeple are still smoking. Not because i’m concerned for the smokers, because i’m concerned for myself. Recent studies show that second hand smoke is just as dangerous, and i am fed up with having to hypoventilate when i am around smokers.

    #845813

    arc
    Participant

    In medicine, hyperventilation (or overbreathing) is the state of breathing faster and/or deeper than normal. It can result from a psychological state such as a panic attack, from a physiological condition such as metabolic acidosis, or can be brought about voluntarily.

    Why do you hyperventilate.

    #845814

    do you mean what good does it do? when you are functioning non-pathologically?

    i imagine in a state of normal panic there is probably some threat present, always a good idea to increase respiration and oxygen levels to run or fight or whatever.

    #845815

    twisted
    Participant

    arc, she wrote hypoventillate, as in holding your breath till out of range of the mazik polluter.

    #845816

    Jam
    Participant

    Thankyou twisted. Yes, i wrote hypOventilate.

    (btw twisted, what makes you think i’m a “she”?)

    #845817

    Sacrilege
    Member

    Jam

    No disrespect for your thread but i feel like we just go in circles on this one. Smoking is an addiction and those who dont quit are either too lazy to stop or dont care enouth too. Simple as that.

    Recent studies DO NOT show that second hand smoke is just as dangerous as smoking. Recent studies do show however, that if you live with a smoker and you breathe in his second hand smoke all day you have a 25% increased chance in getting cancer. Now, unless you live with a smoker I really dont think there is reason to hyper or hypo ventilate.

    #845818

    Homeowner
    Member

    Blinky, is there a point to your sarcasm?

    #845819

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    blah blah blah lung cancer blah blah blah heart disease blah blah blah nicotine.

    Why does smoking bother people so much?

    It seems to make people angry that others smoke.

    Why do you think that is?

    #845820

    good.jew
    Member

    Popa,

    The ones that get angry are the ones that want to smoke themselves, and are jealous of those that do

    #845821

    ronrsr
    Member

    <<Smoking is an addiction and those who dont quit are either too lazy to stop or dont care enouth too.>>

    addiction effects different people differently. Some people can quit at the drop of a hat, other people can not quit without extreme difficulty.

    There is no use in getting angry with these people; compassion and support are more appropriate ways of dealing with them.

    #845822

    AinOhdMilvado
    Participant

    In Pirkei Avos it teaches…

    Aizeh hu chacham – Ha’roeh es ha’nolad.

    It is a well known, undisputed, highly publicized fact what the results of smoking are:

    Heart disease, Lung cancer, emphysema, oral cancers, and more horrific life-ending diseases.

    These are not speculation. These are “ha’nolad”, – the indisputable results of smoking.

    So… if the “nolad” is known and clear for everyone to “roeh”, to see, anyone with any chachma at all, would stay far away from smoking.

    Anyone who does NOT, is not only the opposite of a chacham, but has apparently decided that his taiyveh for smoking is MORE important to him than his being around for his children’s weddings or the birth of his grandchildren.

    Life is dangerous enough from things that are beyond our control, so to be as blunt as can be…

    Anyone who smokes is a SELFISH FOOL.

    #845823

    Jam
    Participant

    Sacrilege,

    Just because i initiated this thread it doesn’t make it mine. Its public. So you dont have to worry about being offensive- feel free to share your thoughts.

    I agree with you that “Smoking is an addiction and those who dont quit are either too lazy to stop or dont care enouth too”. However, it bothers me that this addiction is so rampant in our community in which we are raised to value health(v’neshmartem…) and to work on self control.

    Perhaps you haven’t come across the recent studies that i have. Yes, obviously one would have to be exposed to excessive amount of smoke for it to have an effect on him like the smoker. Unfortunately, for part of my day i am exposed to way to much smoke, as i’m sure many others are too.

    (And btw, cancer is just one of the many many pathologies that smokers (and 2nd hand smokers) are at high risk for)

    #845824

    oomis
    Participant

    “Why does smoking bother people so much?

    It seems to make people angry that others smoke.

    Why do you think that is? “

    Do you REALLY need to ask? It bothers us because 1) IT STINKS

    2) it pollutes the air that I have to breathe, so even if a smoker does not care about what he is breathing, I DO 3) it makes people sick from breathing in second-hand smoke, and babies and young children have a measurably higher incidence of serious upper respiratory infections, when in the home with a smoker 4) it causes SEVERAL different types of cancer, emphysema, exacerbates asthma, and stains the teeth and nails, the nasty stench clings to the clothing of anyone unlucky enough to be nearby… I could go on and on. The most important thing is that smokers, like public cell phone users, tend to be incredibly self-absorbed, selfish, and oblivious and uncaring of the people around them. They will light up, and expect everyone else to adjust to their nasty habit. If they would smoke in a self-contained bubble, I wouldn’t care if they smoked their guts out. But since we share the same space, and it endangers mine and makes it unpleasant to be in that same space, I have a serious objection to it. Yes, it makes me VERY angry. BTW, I don;t want them to die, either.

    #845825

    real-brisker
    Member

    Forget about danger, what about all the wasted $$$$$$$$$$? How can all these people afford it?

    #845826

    Yalah
    Member

    Why not?

    #845827

    AinOhdMilvado
    Participant

    To: Good Jew…

    You wrote… “The ones that get angry are the ones that want to smoke themselves, and are jealous of those that do”

    Do you really believe that?!?

    You could NOT be further from the truth!

    The ones that get angry MAY be angry if you are polluting the air THEY are breathing, but MANY, like ME, get angry for the same reason I would be angry if I saw a Jew shooting up heroine or smoking crack, i.e. because you are MURDERING a Jew (even if it’s yourself).

    You are voluntarily doing exactly the same thing to yourself that the nazis and the yishmaelim, yimach shemam, did (and do) to Jews!

    If some arab was attacking you with a knife, I’m sure you would want someone to grab that knife out of his hand. Well, the knife is in YOUR hand, – yet if someone pulled that cancer stick from your hand you would react angrily, wouldn’t you?

    Do you really think you will be the one in a million who smokes and doesn’t get a deadly disease from it?

    Or… is your life so horrible that you WANT to die?

    Or, is your taiyva just more important to you than your family members whose lives will be destroyed when one day some doctor gives you the news that you’ve got the machla and it’s too late to do anything about it?

    Will you still think smoking is “cool” when you’re gaunt and pale and lying in a hospital bed hooked up to I.V. lines and wheezing on your oxygen tube?

    I know… quitting is so hard. Seeing your family watch you die is even harder.

    #845828

    but why don’t the yeshivas start the boys off young with anti smoking?

    rather i hear hs boys saying

    ” oh did you see/ smell so and so smoking and rabbi _______ didn’t even comment when theres no way he didn’t notice!”

    #845829

    World Saver
    Member

    I agree with popa. Why does it bother people so much? Even more, why do other terrible things that people do, not bother people nearly as much? Do you know that I know of a doctor who said that smoking 2 a day is GOOD for you?! The only reason they make such an issue against it is because most people cannot smoke 2 a day and it usually results in smoking much more, which is indeed dangerous. Just chill out. I think most of our youth that smoke do not remain permanent smokers and end up stopping around marriage age or a little later. I really do not consider this a serious issue in our community.

    #845830

    Homeowner
    Member

    World Saver, if there is indeed a “doctor” who says smoking two cigarettes a day “is good for you,” I hope he or she is not a doctor of medicine. Otherwise, that fool may be subject to a license revocation proceeding or worse.

    What shtus!

    #845831

    dd
    Member

    Popa asked why it bothers people so much when others smoke?

    Here’s why:

    My wife grew up without a father because he smoked.(She barely remembers him.)

    My mother in law had to raise her children on her own because her husband smoked.

    My children never knew their grandfather because he smoked.

    When you see someone smoking, how can it not bother you? How can it not make you angry?

    #845832

    adorable
    Participant

    What do you do if your father smokes? not all day, but about 2-3 times a day? how dangerous is that?

    #845833

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Do you really think you will be the one in a million who smokes and doesn’t get a deadly disease from it?

    I’d say it’s more than one in a million. Some smokers get hit by buses before they develop diseases.

    Or… is your life so horrible that you WANT to die?

    For some people, the answer is yes.

    The Wolf

    #845834

    AinOhdMilvado
    Participant

    To: “adorable”

    How dangerous is it? VERY dangerous!

    I don’t know how old you are, but I would suggest speaking to your father in the following way (as applicable, of course)…

    -Dad, I know you’ve been smoking for a long time. I know you enjoy your smokes, and I know it’s really hard for you to quit, but you DO know what the consequences will be, there’s no denying or escaping the facts. Dad, I need you around. I will be devastated if you get sick, I will be lost if you die. I need you here for my chasna, please don’t make me stand under the chupa without you there by my side. I need you here to be a zaideh to my children. I don’t want you to be someone they only hear about from the past, someone whose picture they see in an album, – I want you to be part of their lives. I want them to know you. I want you to know them. PLEASE don’t put smoking ahead of us. PLEASE don’t wait until it’s too late.

    “adorable” – MY grandfather was a smoker. He died of lung cancer when he was 54 years old. I was only 4 months old at the time, and I never got to know him.

    #845835

    bpt
    Participant

    For the same reason people sin, yet *know* that its bad for them. False sense of security, becuase they can point out people who do so, yet seem to beat the odds, and at the same time, see people who do not (meaning non-smokers and sin avoiders), yet fall victim to all sorts of trouble.

    Bechira is a tricky and powerful tool; use it wisely!

    #845836

    blinky
    Participant

    Blinky, is there a point to your sarcasm?

    Homeowner- im sorry if I sounded harsh, that was not my intention (I was agreeing with you), I was just trying to give an example. The OP wanted to know if smoking is proven bad why are there still ppl doing it? So I was just trying to say the same is with eating excessive fatty foods- ppl know its bad but they do it anyway. No way am I advocating smoking! I am against smoking too, Its just that human nature is to continue doing it even if they know its bad.

    Again my apologies if i sounded sarcastic 🙂

    #845837

    arc
    Participant

    My 5 year old saw someone he likes smoking and told him “I’m sure you dont know that smoking is dangerous but my zaidy had to have an operation because he smoked”.

    #845838

    its_me
    Member

    smokers are morons. not worth being accepted into yeshivas, or going out on a date with a beis yaakov girl.

    the reason : hashem put early warning signals into all harmful things in this world that shout THIS IS BAD DONT DO IT AGAIN! this includes smoking (is there ANYONE who didnt cough his brains out after the first puff?) and drinking (i wont forget the first [and last] taste of shnaps as a kid- yuk!)

    so in shomayim the smoking father dead at 45 cant taina ‘i couldn’t stop i was addicted’. it wont work. the eibishter will reply- why did you disregard my warnings, BEFORE you became addicted? i would love to hear some smokers brag how they ‘enjoyed’ the first puff. mamish gan eden huh?

    #845839

    dd
    Member

    Here are the results of some large studies:

    On average, smokers die 14 years younger than nonsmokers.

    Approximately 50% of smokers ultimately die from smoking, and 50% die from other causes.

    In other words, if you are a smoker, you have a 50% chance of avoiding death due to smoking (although you will likely suffer from health problems. If you are a smoker, you have a 50% chance of dying due to smoking – at an average age of about 28 years younger than you would have otherwise died.

    I don’t know how to encourage someone how to get over the addiction, but the statistics are terrifying.

    #845840

    arc
    Participant

    what does drinking have to do with your rant?

    #845841

    squeak
    Participant

    Smoking is different from drinking (alcohol) and eating fatty foods in that the latter 2 can be consumed in moderation with no ill effect. But with smoking there is no “golden mean” for two reasons- it is not a controllable habit (i.e. no one is able to smoke only 1 or 2 cigarette a day after a while) and also because even moderate smoking poses severe health risks.

    If someone needs to smoke, at least switch to a pipe or cigar. No tar and no deep inhaling, it’s not good but it’s better.

    #845842

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Anyone who smokes is a SELFISH FOOL.

    and

    smokers are morons.

    You know, while I understand you mean well, it might pay to realize that there are those of us who have relatives that we *greatly admire* and who, aside from the unfortunate smoking habit, are looked up to by those who love them.

    My mother started smoking as a teen many, many years ago. She is a truly remarkable woman — I’m not going to go into her life story, the adversities she’s faced (and continues to face) throughout her life. Suffice it to say that she is a woman who is looked up to and admired by many both in her family and in her community.

    Believe me, she would LOVE to quit smoking. She has tried many times in the past, without success. I (and just about all who love her) would LOVE for her to quit smoking as well — but, whatever reason, she has been unable to quit.

    Is this a weakness on her part? Most assuredly. But if you knew her, and knew of the self-sacrifice she went through in bringing up her kids, you would not call her selfish. If you knew of her inner wisdom, you would not call her a “fool” or a “moron.” She is a person who, to this day, guides me in my life, someone I can turn to for advice, for wisdom and for guidance. And I don’t turn to fools or morons. I turn to people MORE intelligent and wise than myself, not less.

    The Wolf

    #845843

    AinOhdMilvado
    Participant

    “squeak”…

    You made some good, valid points about the bad food comparison!

    And yeah, cigars and pipes ARE a LITTLE better…

    Probably wont die from lung cancer –

    just mouth or throat cancer.

    #845844

    AinOhdMilvado
    Participant

    To all those who’ve spoken about how hard it is to quit:

    I’m sure that is true, but just remember the profound message I once saw on a bumper sticker…

    Cancer Cures Smoking!

    #845845

    Be Happy
    Participant

    No excuses. STOP smoking now. Go to your doctor and get help. I have cancer (no I dont smoke) Its a very very painful road. I lost my job. I just had my fourth operation this year.My whole family are suffering. It hurts me so much to see people smoke. A smoker is most likely to end up with cancer. I am yet to meet a smoker in perfect health – no cough, no phlegm , no loss of teeth etc. How many children suffer from illness due to their parents smoking?

    Rav Wosner shlita said someone who smokes is a murderer.

    Please get help now.

    #845848

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I think good.jew is right. You are angry because you are jealous.

    Smoking is not nearly as bad for you as being fat. My grandfather died at a young age of heart disease, so I think I will get angry at people who are fat. I will say they should be taxed heavily and also are not worthy to marry a by girl or a yeshiva guy. Or maybe the fat people should marry smokers.

    Bad fat people!!

    #845849

    squeak
    Participant

    Fat people are bad, but that doesn’t make smokers good. Bad smokers, bad fat people.

    It’s not jealousy, it’s impinging on others’ rights that creates the anger. When I’m walking down a street and the guy in front of me is smoking (causing me to breathe in his smoke), I’m angry. When I’m on an airplane or bus and a fat guy sits down next to me, I’m angry that his bulbous thighs are resting on my lap.

    The amount that your badness affects me is directly proportional to the anger it causes.

    #845850

    bombmaniac
    Participant

    people smoke because they are too weak to quit. don’t deny it…saying it’s hard and that i wouldn’t understand is just reinforcing what i said. smokers are too weak to quit.

    why do they start? its a combination of youthful stupidity, influence, peer pressure, and a desire to conform to a certain group. all very stupid reasons when analyzed properly.

    #845851

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    squeak:

    I agree there is anger when the smoke is in your presence, but don’t you think there is also a certain general anger?

    Why are cigarettes taxed to $10 a pack and people cheer? Why do people sneer at smokers? Isn’t there something more there?

    I think so.

    #845852

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Popa:

    Tobacco smoke (all types) gives me headaches, even when I smell it on someone’s clothing. And I’m not the only one.

    The real answer (I think) is because the government has figured it can make more money on taxes than it will pay out in health costs.

    #845853

    squeak
    Participant

    I think the general anger is something created by the media. Smokers are portrayed in the media as the second greatest evil (Republicans are the first, terrorism is third). They kill innocent people with second-hand smoke (inconclusive evidence of that), they drive up medical costs and redirect heathcare resources (probably mostly true), they pollute the environment and the ecology (maybe), etc.

    This is separate from the individual anger that is natural when the guy next to you in the restaurant lights up, or the guy ahead of you on the street.

    People can’t help regurgitating what they are fed, and falling into step with the crowd in hating a “public enemy”.

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