Why did kimchis have seven sons who were kohen gadol

Home Forums Bais Medrash Daf Yomi Yuma Why did kimchis have seven sons who were kohen gadol

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  • #611858

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Or, why is popa 20 blatt behind.

    In any event, it isn’t because she covered her hair, as the gemara says ???? ??? ?? ??? ???? ????.

    In other news, whatever she did was apparently something many women did, as the gemara says.

    #1001618

    squeak
    Participant
    #1001619

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Yes, but as those of us 20 behind in the daf know, and as was pointed out in that thread, the 2nd and 3rd became kohen gadol when the first was tamei.

    #1001620

    goldersgreener
    Participant

    ???? ???’ ???? ??? ?? ??? ??? ????, ?????? ????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ??, ???? ????? ??’ ???? ??”?, ???? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ???????, ??? ?’ ???? ???? ?? ?? ?? ???? ????? ???? ????? ??????, ?????? ??? ????? ??? ???, ??? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?’ ???? ???? ??????? ????, ?????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????.

    ????”? ?? ???? ???? ????? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ????, ?????? ????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ????, ??? ?? ????? ???? ??? ?????

    .

    [?? ?? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ???] ?

    #1001621

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    golders: who wrote that?

    Continuing on the 20 blatt ago theme, so the proof that he was a expert doctor is that he was never able to cure a mule bite.

    #1001622

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Popa, at the end of goldersgreener’s, post, it days it’s from the

    author of the Hafla’ah.

    #1001623

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    It says al pi

    #1001624

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    That’s probably a mistake. The abbreviation ?”? was probably read wrong. It’s probably supposed to mean ?? ?????.

    http://hebrewbooks.org/39757

    #1001625

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    you linked to the whole book!

    #1001626

    miritchka
    Member

    popa_bar_abba: at least you cant say DY left something out!!

    #1001627

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    That’s pretty funny. I actually have no idea where it is. I can’t find where he wrote on Rus. The link was just to show where I think the ?”? got mixed up.

    #1001628

    apushatayid
    Participant

    next time someone says, say it dont spray it, think of kimchis and her sons.

    #1001629

    It was my theory that Kimchis was the absolute ?????, in hiding all her good deeds – ????? ??? ?? ??????. She mentioned one (maybe common to others too) positive modesty attribute she was accustomed to, while cleverly concealing her true unique great qualities. – just my theory

    #1001630

    mobico
    Participant

    “Continuing on the 20 blatt ago theme, so the proof that he was a expert doctor is that he was never able to cure a mule bite.”

    No, no, no. The proof that he was a expert doctor was that he knew that a certain kind of mule bite was not curable – the proof of THAT being that he was able to cure any other kind of wound.

    #1001631

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    The proof is that if he had the issue of not being able to cure someone of something, he was obviously a doctor.

    #1001632

    goldersgreener
    Participant

    ??’ ??’ ???? ???? ???? ??????.

    #1001633

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Goldersgreener, where?

    #1001634

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    goldersgreener:

    who wrote the words that you copied and pasted?

    #1001635

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    In any event, it isn’t because she covered her hair, as the gemara says ???? ??? ?? ??? ???? ????.

    This seemed wrong to me, as they asked her (they obviously valued her opinion), and the Gemara records her answer. I found an Ohr Zarua who says that she had another z’chus as well, but certainly her tznius was part of it.

    http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=8726&st=&pgnum=8

    ?”? at the end.

    #1001636

    DY, read what I wrote. (Maybe. Could even be.)

    #1001637

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Rashi explains why it should make a difference. They were just telling her that obviously it isn’t as simple as she made it sound. But nobody suggested that she lied.

    #1001638

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    ????? seems to learn that although it wasn’t the reason, the Gemara is still trying to teach us the importance of tzniyus (and the the walls never seeing her hair is just an example of her tzniyus).

    ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ?????. ????? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?? ??? ????? ???? ????? ????. ????? ??? ????? ???? ??????. ????? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ???????. ???? ???? ??? ??????? ?????? ???? ??????

    ????. ?????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ?? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ????? [????? ??? ?”?] ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???. ?????? ??? ??? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ???????:

    http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40775&st=&pgnum=77

    #1001639

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    LF, yes, similar, but you seemed to be focusing on her concealing her other attributes (as an act of modesty in and of itself), while the Ohr Zarua seems to be saying that she thought it was only because of one attribute, and the Chachomim told her that it could not be only that.

    #1001640

    oomis
    Participant

    How did a Kohein Godol become appointed as such? Wasn’t it through the death of the previous one, or because he was not Tahor? Was there another way?

    #1001641

    Right, through both. Or if he was somehow invalidated.

    #1001642

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    The Gemara (???? ?”?) says that two of them were due to their brother becoming tamei (on two separate occasions).

    ???? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??????

    ???? ?? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ???? (??) ???? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ?”? ???? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??? ?? ??? ??????

    #1001643

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Back to the OP. Why is popa 20 blatt behind? I shouldn’t complain. I don’t even do daf yomi.

    Tell you what popa, if I agreed to join in for Sukkah, would you catch up, and then we can talk about it here?

    #1001644

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    If you agree to join for sukkah, I will catch up by monday morning (I’m meikel that the night can count for either day, for daf yomi purposes).

    And then we can talk about it here. But then you will take all the blame if they skip another mesechta and you don’t post to tell me.

    #1001645

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Agreed!

    You should really get yourself a calendar, though (I don’t like being called a big fat jerk).

    #1001646

    oomis
    Participant

    So if someone has several sons and they all become K”G, would that not mean that either at least some or most of them died in her lifetime, or they became tamei while serving as K”G? How could either of those scenarios be considered a sachar for her tznius? Not trying to be disrespectful – I am having real difficulty understanding the positive aspect of this quote in the Gemarah, when obviously something not so good had to have occurred in order for Kimchis to have so many sons who served in that capacity within her lifetime.

    #1001647

    apushatayid
    Participant

    They didnt die. The gemara relates that twice on yom kippur (2 different years) the kohen gadol (her son) had to leave the beis hamikdash, and in the process became tamei requiring his brother to take over. That would account for at least three of her sons serving as kohen gadol with none dead. The story the gemara relates as to how the KG became tamei is not a negative either. The spittle of a non jew landed on him.

    #1001648

    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    wasnt a dirty tissue?

    #1001649

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Thr Gemara doesn’t actually say it was Yom Kippur; Rashi does. I think Rashi knew that because otherwise, they wouldn’t need to appoint another Kohen Gadol.

    #1001650

    Logician
    Participant

    Meiri says “baruch ba’al hamuznayim”, which I think means that while it was the reason, we cannot question why someone who does something doesn’t get the schar associated with it.

    Interesting ohr zarua – implication seems to be that she herself didn’t know the true reason (which is interesting of itself – from the fact that they asked her it seems that Chazal assumed she was able to properly judge which of her actions bring a particular schar).

    As to the actual association – O.Z. is saying that an important attribute of the Kohein Gadol was to be a Tahor (clearly) and a Tzanua (?)

    #1001651

    Logician
    Participant

    I personally always thought that while she did it from her innate midah of tznius, others “macht nuch”.

    And the Mishna Brurah quotes the gemara (without the ending!) in relation to the midah of tznius, so he’s clearly understanding that it was actually a cause.

    #1001652

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Meiri says “baruch ba’al hamuznayim”, which I think means that while it was the reason, we cannot question why someone who does something doesn’t get the schar associated with it.

    Maybe. The reason I thought differently is because he writes,???? ???? ??? ??????? ??????. What’s the ??? ???? if that reason remained?

    #1001653

    oomis
    Participant

    Thank you, APY for the clarification. Very helpful. 🙂

    #1001654

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    ?????? ??? ??? ?? ??? should be, ?????? ??? ???? ?? ???.

    Anyhow, I read it like Logician but then I had Daas Yochid’s problem. Now, looking back, I see that he says, ???? ????, not, ??? ????. It is not an answer to, ??”?. He answers that by saying, ???? ??? ??????, which clearly means that Hashem judges the heart and each individual’s Nisyonos and rewards accordingly. Then he goes on to say that we see from here how great Tznius is.

    #1001655

    Sam2
    Participant

    DY and Popa: Ooh, I could join in too. I don’t actually do Daf Yomi but the last time I tested myself (which was 7 years ago) I knew Sukkah pretty well.

    #1001656

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    HaLeiVi, yes, OCR error which I didn’t catch.

    I think I like your pshat in the Meiri better than mine. Shkoyach.

    Sam, that’ll be great!

    #1001657

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Excellent!

    I printed out 10 blatt to learn today at this thing I’m going to for the day. (it’s 8 hours long)

    #1001658

    apushatayid
    Participant

    What he appears to be saying is that hashem knows the reason why people are rewarded a certain way even if their actions are not necessarily different that others around them (the chachamim told her, others do the same and did not merit this).

    #1001659

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    How did it go, popa?

    #1001660

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant
    #1001661

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Now Sam’s gonna say it’s bal tosif or something.

    (very impressive)

    #1001662

    Sam2
    Participant

    DY: Please. I know what Bal Tosif is. It’s not my fault that no one else seems to understand the importance and potential prevalence of Chukas Akum.

    I just have a logistical question: How did you do 11.5 Blatt if you only printed 10? And if you have a gemara/dafyomi.org, then why did you need to print out the 10 Blatt in the first place?

    #1001663

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Sam, I was completely joking. I actually think you bring up important points regarding chukas akum.

    Popa probably didn’t realize how much he would get done, and when he ran out of printed sheets, he wrote the last three amudim from memory and then chazzered them.

    #1001664

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    1. I didn’t print exactly 10–I wasn’t counting and I knew it was about 10.

    2. 64b didn’t print so I did it off hebrewbooks on my blackberry.

    3. It is less obtrusive to read printouts on the table in front of you, than to look at your phone for 8 hours during speeches.

    #1001665


    Participant

    Or, why is popa 20 blatt behind.

    Is it because you followed the Vilna Shas?

    #1001666

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    You learned instead of listening to eight hours of boring speeches? I’m not quite as impressed any more. (Still impressed that you accomplished so much, though.)

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