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It makes me so sad to read some of the posts. We are such a fragmented community. I understand wanting to primarily be friends with people who are hashkafically similar to us, but choosing not to Daven with MO? Half my family is MO the other half chareidi from Lakewood and yerushalayim. I just don’t understand…….
some people look down at the MO as the “red headed step child”…it’s sad but true. The infighting seems at an all time high.
It is the yetzer horah and people giving in to it. It is the feeling of “i’m better than them” rather than we are all yiddin. It has a lot to do with your heritage and how you were raised. I am second generation holocaust survivor and my mother always reminded us “when they came to round up the Jews they didn’t care if you were FFB, BT, Chasidish, Frei, bearded, not bearded, to them a Jew is a Jew is a Jew” unfortunately that is a lesson we have to learn from them. A Jew is a Jew is a Jew and we should never take that for granted. We are one big family and each one counts and each one is precious.
because its so much fun…?
“Why do we judge each other?”
Because it is easier than judging ourselves.
I don’t know about this.
Judging things is an essential part to having ideals and morals. If you are afraid to call something wrong, then how can you call something right.
To give a funny example- consider this thread. You are criticizing those who judge. Aren’t you judging?
I think we need to differentiate between judging ideas and judging people.
So that, while I try to be understanding of people based on their individual struggles and backgrounds, that does not mean that I approve of the ideas they espouse.
So I will judge ideas. I will judge groups based on the ideas they represent. And I think that means that I have the courage of my convictions to say that this is right and this is wrong.
Popa, great post! MO is a philosophy, therefore we can discuss if their philosophy is right or not, the same way they may discuss why their leaders felt chareidi philosophy is not applicable for today’s day and age. Of course we are not allowed to discuss particular people who believe in the traditional Chareidi ideology but don’t really actually practice it too well. If the MO community would disclaim their ideological beliefs, but would still practice the same behavior as they do, then nobody would have a right to cha”v criticize them on a public forum.
The problem is when someone doing the judging smugly believes ONLY he is right. In fact, he may be very wrong. And that cuts across the board, chareidi and non-chareidi alike.
oomis
Why do suggest something is a problem if there is another side to the argument?
Isn’t it possible that this is not a problem?
are you suggesting that only you are right?
oomis is not suggesting that she is the only one that is right.
She is saying that people judge others on where they daven, how they daven and which minchagim they follow – when in fact, everyone is a Jew, even with different customs. We all read the same Torah, celebrate the same Yomtovim and have the same forefathers. (oomis – I think that is what you meant – that is how I understood it).
Aries – as usual, I agree with you completely.
mommamia: Who claimed in the other thread that they wouldn’t daven in an MO shul? I would definitely daven in a MO shul if I spend Shabbos in the vicinity. I genuinely love all Jews. For me to daven on a permanent basis, I would look for a Shul in which most/many of the members are like minded as myself, so I would feel comfortable in my surroundings.
I think instead of posts trying to figure out how the two groups are different and never the twain shall meet, maybe we should look at what’s similar, try to learn Torah together and increase achdus amongst AM YISRAEL.
mommamia- definitaly! and i feel like we shouldnt make threads like “do u watch movies” because it points out people’s differences.. oh idk maybe that’s just all threads hmm..
Like your favorite bar shattya always says- If you dont hate anyone, you dont stand for anything.
mods is there a rule that you can’t post anything bad about YWN, like in communist russia?
(posted something negative about this site, which is true, and would help people if they knew. But it was deleted by the mods! Even though it was true and helpful, just because it was something that the mods thought was negative about the site.)
Bar shattya: Its Assur to hate anyone. Hatred of people is evil, period. We must despise what the Torah describes as an essence of evil as the posuk in Tehilim says “Ohavei Hashem Sin’u Rah”, but we may never interpet the hatred in a practical way at a specific human being.
Its Assur to hate anyone. Hatred of people is evil, period.
it is sometimes a Mitzvah to hate someone, period.
Mod 80: Please cite sources for your quoted ‘mitzvah’? Its a mitzvah to wipe out Amalek, but its not written in the Torah that its a mitzvah to hate them.
im not talking about amalek. its a Mitzvah to hate a rasha. there are other categories as well. im not a Talmid Chochum, i cant give you sources. perhaps some of our resident lombdim can help.
and its a Mitzvah not a “Mitzvah”
its a very well known one to those who learn.
from Rav Moshe Leib Halberstadt:
“There is a difference of opinions among the Rishonim regarding a Rasha whom it is permitted and a Mitzvah to hate, whether he should be hated totally. It was decided Lehalachah like the opinion that it is a Mitzvah to hate him totally.”
but its well known and pushut.
Mod80: who is Rav Moshe Halberstadt? I need verses from the Torah or Talmud or Midrash; the Rishonim also have to be quoted with exact wording. The Gemara says its “Assur L’histakel Bifnei Rasha” since one can be spiritually harmed from this stare; however it doesn’t say that its a mitzvah or permitted to physically hate him.
80:
I’m not sure about that. I’ve always been told that we hate ????? ??? ??????. Sins but not sinners.
not sinners, a rasha.
what is a rasha halachically?
dont know
im out of this conversation
i dont know enough.
carry on men
Mod80: I’m not well versed either. I just want to point out that the end of the possuk which popa qouted(“Yitamu Chataim Min Haaretz”)says “U’Rishaim Oid Einam”, so the posuk is discussing Rishaim.
hopefully someone will enter and clarify matters
we tend to judge each other because we have no right to. And people often do what they should not. So, lets all work on ourselves to be more accepting of one another.
What does the passuk in koheles “es lisno” refer to? There is a time to hate who or what? What does rashi say on the passuk?
mommamia, many people here’s strange idea of “fun” is to write troll comments bashing people for whatever reason. You should not take those comments seriously.
its a Mitzvah to hate a rasha
Ah, that explains why some people hate me.
The Wolf
are you suggesting that only you are right? “
Oh, please….We both know that is not true. And that is precisely my point. You made that judgment.
Minyan Gal got it right.
It’s a mitzvah to hate apikorsum and mosrim after an attempt was made to have them do teshuva and they rejected the overture.
I think you mean bashing, not judging. You’re completely right.
I might hate some things you do, but that doesn’t mean I hate you.
(you in a general sense)
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