August 1, 2016 3:00 pm at 3:00 pm #1163757
Maybe women should stop reading women’s magazines (which are obviously for men, anyway. They even conveniently leave out pictures of women.)August 1, 2016 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #1163758
It is forbidden to give tochacha if it is unlikely to be well-received.
I am not sure in what universe one might think that approaching a random woman and telling her “You look terrible” is likely to be well-received.August 1, 2016 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm #1163759
Whatever decisions she made in front of the mirror that morning is irrelevant. Telling her “you look terrible” is not tochacha.August 1, 2016 3:26 pm at 3:26 pm #1163760
Figure out a better way to gently reprimand her. But don’t neglect tochacha.
apy’s suggestion to approach her rebbetzin is a wonderful and great idea, if that’s possible. But many of these public sinners have no rebbetzin they listen to. That doesn’t relieve one of their obligation.August 1, 2016 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #1163761🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
But don’t neglect tochacha.
I don’t, you’re just not usually very receptiveAugust 1, 2016 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #1163762
I am not sure that giving tochacha to strangers is ever a good idea. I know I certainly would not be motivated to change if I were the recipient of tochacha from a stranger, no matter how “gentle”.August 1, 2016 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #1163763
Do I ever complain that I was given tochacha? Be advised I appreciate receiving tochacha. Including your bateling reprimand.August 1, 2016 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #1163764
I strongly suspect you are in the minority there.August 1, 2016 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #1163765
Here are the halachic guidelines for the obligation to give tochacha:August 1, 2016 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #1163766🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Including your bateling reprimand.
🙂August 1, 2016 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #1163767
See, I pickup the cues even when indirect.
You’re a good tochacha giver. 😉August 2, 2016 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #1163769Abba_SParticipant
I don’t understand what the lady did. She wore a long blond wig and platform shoes. What was her great sin that you have to publicly rebuke her? Are you the fashion Police? Be advised that you may lose all credits you earned for Mitzvas you performed to this women if you shamed her for nothing.August 5, 2016 12:28 am at 12:28 am #1163770Francorachel3Participant
It’s well known that when a woman dresses “to kill,” ie. Very long, fancy styled sheitel, VERY high spike heels (platforms etc), tight clothes (even if they cover knees and elbows) , this is a sign of insecurity and low self esteem. She is screaming out for attention, “hey, look at me!” Obviously she’s not getting enough validation or attention from her husband and she needs it from others; in some cases I’ve heard that the husbands themselves tell the wives to dress like that because THEY, THE HUSBANDS ARE THE ONES WHO ARE INSECURE and they want all their buddies and other men to look at their wife and lust after her. In all these cases therapy is in order. In addition they’re unfortunately racking up aveiros by causing men to have forbidden thoughts or gaze at them too long…August 5, 2016 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm #1163771
None of the above is “well known” at all.
Usually when women choose their clothing and accessories, they do so based on what THEY think looks good. Not because they want attention or are insecure or need to make a “statement”. (I’m sure that does happen– but it is not the experience of most women on most days.)
Incidentally, it’s the man’s responsibility not to “gaze at the women”. Not the women’s responsibility to accept extra tznius chumras for the sake of the men’s neshamos.August 5, 2016 9:40 pm at 9:40 pm #1163772
Incidentally, it’s the man’s responsibility not to “gaze at the women”. Not the women’s responsibility to accept extra tznius chumras for the sake of the men’s neshamos.
It is explicit in the halachas that the reason women need to dress tzniusdik is in order that men not overly look at her.August 7, 2016 3:22 am at 3:22 am #1163773
Where?August 7, 2016 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #1163774a maminParticipant
Jewish Feminist: You are way off target. Women need to take into account that men can look at them and dress appropriately. THAT IS THE WOMAN’S RESPONSIBILITY! If woman feel a need to dress in a way to make mens’ head turn, she is sinning and needs to look at her insecurities to see why she needs this negative attention. A married woman’s purpose is to look beautiful for her husband NOT every man who walks on the street. Unfortunately the description of Tznius has not been taught in the proper light. It is the most beautiful thing to be tzniusdig and should not be looked down upon.It is not a punishment! I once heard a beautiful example; Would you put the most expensive jewels out in an open showcase? No, you wouldn’t they need protection. So does a Yiddishe Woman.August 8, 2016 3:20 am at 3:20 am #1163775
Yes, I would put the most expensive jewels in an open showcase. They are useless in the dark.August 9, 2016 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm #1163777
A woman is not an expensive jewel. A woman is a person. Her purpose is not “to look beautiful for her husband” nor anyone else.
Just because a woman doesn’t feel a responsibility to look out for men’s neshamos doesn’t automatically mean that she “feel
a need to dress in a way to make mens’ head [sic] turn”.
Most women don’t dress to excite other men. They wear what THEY like.August 9, 2016 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #1163778August 9, 2016 4:15 pm at 4:15 pm #1163779
According to my sisters. Men think women dress to impress men, when in fact all they care about is what other women think of their look.August 9, 2016 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #1163780
How do your sisters know what men think?August 9, 2016 4:56 pm at 4:56 pm #1163781
It’s silly to dress to impress people. Clothing is worn to avoid nudity.August 9, 2016 5:19 pm at 5:19 pm #1163782
“How do your sisters know what men think?”
They read comments such as your recent one “women need to dress tzniusdik is in order that men not overly look at her” and say silly men, we could care less what you think we are concerned with what other women think whether we are dressed for a wedding or a trip to the supermarket.August 9, 2016 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #1163783
“Clothing is worn to avoid nudity.”
Lichavod, Ulitiferes.August 9, 2016 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #1163784
we could care less what you think we are concerned with what other women think whether we are dressed for a wedding or a trip to the supermarket.
They dress to kill other women?August 9, 2016 8:25 pm at 8:25 pm #1163786
So, in your mind women stand in front of the mirror every morning agonizing over which top to wear with the singular thought, will this get Joseph to stare, or will the other one?
You really do have an over inflated ego.August 9, 2016 10:04 pm at 10:04 pm #1163787
apy, zicher a tzadik like you who keeps his eyes always focused on the ground wouldn’t have any hasaga on this inyan. But the seforim hakedoshim are abundant in admonitions on the mode and choices women make in dressing.August 10, 2016 12:47 am at 12:47 am #1163788
Agree. But those decisions are not normally made with men in mind. Women have their obligation, men have theirs. Sometimes women don’t make it easy on men with the choices they make. The average woman doesn’t have enticing men in mind when getting dresssed in the morning.
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