January 20, 2020 11:09 am at 11:09 am #1824278
can we openly discuss the donkey in the room?
Joe Biden bragged, on a now widely disseminated video, about threatening to withhold money that was promised to Ukraine, unless a specific prosecutor was fired.
There was a fear that that prosecutor would make things a bit hot for the interests of at least one of the Bidens .
Should Joe and his boss Obama, whom he openly implicated, In that same video, have been impeached?
If yes, why is it OK for Joe to now run for president undisturbed by that?
If not can we please get a logical rational explanation of why, and how it is materially different than what trump is accused of?
You have on this forum vociferously advocated for the impeachment of president Trump.
So I ask specifically if at least one of you can set forth a logical explanation for this example of glaring hypocrisy.
Yes this is an honest question.
It is one of the underpinnings of the contention that this entire ”impeachment ”is just a sham partisan low blow.
Let’s have an open and frank discussion about it.January 20, 2020 1:38 pm at 1:38 pm #1824478
BumpJanuary 20, 2020 2:57 pm at 2:57 pm #1824495RebbeDebbieParticipant
Just because I do not like Trump does not mean I support Biden. #YangGang2020January 20, 2020 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #1824510
klugeryid, I don’t know if the moderators will allow the aricle., so google biden fires prosecutor. Read the artiicle from USA Today dated October 3, 2019 tiltled Explainer – Biden, allies pushed out Ukranian prosecutor.January 20, 2020 5:19 pm at 5:19 pm #1824515
I detest Trump’s actions, but that doesn’t mean I support Biden. In fact I shall not be voting for Biden or Sanders in the Primary or CT State Democratic convention. I have made my point in my local Democratic Town Committee that both of these men are too old to start a 4 year term as President. They have had their time in elected office and it time for new faces.
As to the accusations of the OP. Vice Presidents have no power except to break ties in the Senate. They stand in the wings, fill in for the President at funerals and inaugurations around the world but cannot hire or fire federal officials. I doubt there was an impeachable offense. Much of what Biden is accused of happened when he was not in office (after January 20, 2017 and therefore not subject to impeachment.January 20, 2020 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #1824517👑RebYidd23Participant
Joe Biden cannot be held responsible for anything that he has done in the past few years.January 20, 2020 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #1824520
Search on the USA Today website on the full title, Explainer – Biden, allies pushed out Ukrainian prosecutor because he didn’t pursue corruption cases.January 20, 2020 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #1824528BillyweeParticipant
Maybe they should of been impeached, may be not. That has no bearing on Trumps impeachment. Nor does it prove this impeachment is a sham.January 20, 2020 8:30 pm at 8:30 pm #1824567
Amazing let’s recap our rational logic defenses
Rebbe Debbie doesn’t support Biden. (how that answers the question escapes me) rating? Dodge
Reb Eleizer sends me to a USA today article. As if I’ll get objective reporting there. Rating , passing the buck
CT lawyer goes on a verbal tear throwing in who knows what And in the process teaching me much that I was unaware of.
Such as that the Ukrainian prosecutors work for the United States federal government? Otherwise I fail to understand how that comment is Germain. Additionally, thanks for letting us know that mr. Biden is an out-and-out liar as mr. Biden clearly stated that it was him acting on the say-so of his boss the president of the United States Mr Obama , sending out the message that if they don’t fire the prosecutor then the billions in money will not come if I remember correctly he gave him a time frame of just a few hours by the time I get on the plane I better hear that the prosecutor was fired .but Mr CT lawyer avers that this took place after Obama left office.
Unless somehow the ukrainians we’re unaware of that this was post election and Obama was no longer president .
I don’t know I’m still unclear on that after Mr lawyers post.
Reb yid pleads insanity on behalf of another.while it’s probably true, it’s not really comforting, being as he is talking about the democrat front runner to be president. Rating, true but damning
Reb Eleizer comes back for more but this time I’m totally lost as to his point. Rating , ramble
Billywee plays the Hillary card ”who cares. It’s over ”
Only problem with that is trump can really say the same thing.
In summation. Nobody from the vocal left on this forum has actually put forth any defense for the glaring hypocrisy.
I rest my case.January 20, 2020 8:30 pm at 8:30 pm #1824579
CTL is voting Warren 😒January 20, 2020 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #1824614GadolhadorahParticipant
Kluger……Biden’s effort to get rid of the corrupt prosecutor in question were consistent with the efforts of ALL the other European countries ‘who were also trying to persuade Ukraine to get rid of the guy before they would contribute additional funds. As others have noted, there is no comparison with the current situation with the Trumpkpf. But even if there was some analogy, what does that have to do with Trump’s claim he was doing so to “fight corruption”. Never in our history have we had a president who has expressed “love” and “great respect” for the world’s most corrupt and evil foreign leaders in Russia, China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, etc. Tonight we learned he ordered the Sec of State to “get rid of the law” (the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act”) that prohibits American countries from bribing foreign government entities. So much for the “Corruption Fighter in Chief”.January 20, 2020 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #1824610
klugeryid. did you read the article which answers your question?January 20, 2020 11:49 pm at 11:49 pm #1824624
klugeryid, I am sending you to the article that answers your question. The moderators don’t accept the artucle or a web link.January 20, 2020 11:49 pm at 11:49 pm #1824664
klugeryid, GH says the same thing. Why are you asking the question, if you don’t want to accept the answer from anyone?January 20, 2020 11:51 pm at 11:51 pm #1824663
No. I don’t believe one word of what they write so I didn’t bother looking for it
Firstly, you win the prize. An actual rational response. I gave up on that happening.
I wouldn’t say ”never In our history …”
We just had Obama and his obeisance tour of the worlds despots.
Again. Though. If it’s OK to use our countries money to leverage our position, I don’t see what’s wrong with doing so when it also serves my purposes.
Had he said, if you don’t smear the bidens then I won’t give you the money, well that would be corruption.
But here he maximum said, I believe the bidens had corrupt dealings in your country. If you won’t investigate, no more cash. What is wrong?????January 21, 2020 1:19 am at 1:19 am #1824681GadolhadorahParticipant
Correction to my prior post….Trump the Corruption Fighter tried to get former Sec of State Tillerson to get rid of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act which prohibits American COMPANIES from bribing foreign officials (See documentation in new book entitled “Trump the Stable Genius” which went on sale in the past hour on Amazon and other booksites)
Also, with respect to the Bidens, if a President’s/Vice President’s family making money from the WH connections was an impeachable offense, Trump would be back selling condos in Moscow by now. While there were episodes throughout American history of this kind of “corriuption” including with Carter (remember Billy Beer), the Bushes (Neil and the Banks) etc. The Trumpkopf kids and in-laws are making more $$ from their Daddy’s position than any of their predecessors.January 21, 2020 1:20 am at 1:20 am #1824675
klugeryid, I would not have pointed out to you, if it wasn’t worthwhile. You are insulting me by not reading it that I am so naive to believe everything.January 21, 2020 11:39 am at 11:39 am #1824705
OK Reb Eleizer.
Even though no offense was meant, I read the article you alluded to.
Typical liberal white wash. Exactly as I suspected it would be. The more so since you were pushing me to read it and knowing your general positions
But once I read it, a few comments if I may. I’ll put my comments in caps to differentiate from the text of the article.
But sources ranging from former Obama administration officials to an anti-corruption advocate in Ukraine say the official, Viktor Shokin, was ousted for the opposite reason Trump and his allies claim. MAJOR SOURCE THERE. OBAMA OFFICIALS AVER THAT BIDEN DID NOTHING WRONG AND TRUMP IS LYING. WOW. NOW I’M CONVINCED. TOTALLY.
You saw the vice president begin to emerge as really sort of the senior policy lead on Ukraine,” Pifer said. “It’s good to have attention at that level.” UM, CT LAWYER? DON’T VICE PRESIDENTS DO NOTHING? NOT LIKE LEAD POLICY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
Burisma Holdings was not under scrutiny at the time Joe Biden called for Shokin’s ouster, according to the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine, an independent agency set up in 2014 that has worked closely with the FBI.SO NOW WE ARE TRUSTING A RANDOM BUREAU IN UKRAINE TO ESTABLISH FACTS, TO GO FORWARD AND IMPEACH OUR PRESIDENT.
Shokin’s office had investigated Burisma, but the probe focused on a period before Hunter Biden joined the company, according to the anti-corruption bureau. RIGHT. AND THE DECISION TO HIRE BIDEN JR WAS MADE IN ABOUT TWENTY MIN. THE DAY BEFORE HE STARTED WORKING THERE. SO IF THIS PROBE WAS FOCUSED ON THE TIME RIGHT BEFORE BIDEN STARTED WORKING THERE, THERE IS NO WAY IT COULD HAVE BEEN CONNECTED.
happy now? I read the article
Rating whitewash and snow job.
I asked a simple question. Biden held back money because of supposed corruption in a foreign country, he is lauded.
Trump is accused of holding up money to a foreign country because of corruption, he is impeached.
And a reasonable person is supposed to think it’s not a revenge job by sore losers (especially when they have been promising to find a reason to impeach him since the day he was elected)January 21, 2020 11:39 am at 11:39 am #1824709jackkParticipant
You have a point. The House of Representatives rejected it.
That is the reason for a FULL trial in the senate.
Let us all hear from all the witnesses on both sides and let them determine which reasoning is more compelling.
Was it Trump really caring about corruption or as many have testified that it was a tactic to knock off Biden.January 21, 2020 11:40 am at 11:40 am #1824734
Wrong as usual
Not a fan of Senator Warren……she has yet to show how she can fund her Medicare for All plans in a fiscally sound way
That said, if she is the nominee and is running against Trump, I will vote against Trump
There are other choices besides, Warren, Sanders, Biden, Buttigieg……
Steyer, and Bloomberg are more to my liking. I don’t buy Yang’s $1000 month welfare for all.January 21, 2020 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #1824759
Lol Bloomberg. Thanks for playing. If you vote for any Democrat you vote against Jews.January 21, 2020 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #1824761
CTL: I know you dont agree with nor with his moral values but yet you would consider voting for Buttigieg? Biden who has a son that has fathered a child out of wedlock (and denied it?)January 21, 2020 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #1824763
Steyer invests in private prisons. If that’s your guy, you lose any respect.January 21, 2020 2:53 pm at 2:53 pm #1824783
Interesting because Democrats like to only hear from people that agree with their views
I wanted to start a new thread on this but here’s a good place to put my question
“Why do you hate trump so much?”
I don’t think any republican here hated Obama with as much passion as you hate trumpJanuary 21, 2020 2:53 pm at 2:53 pm #1824799
klugeeyid, Biden followed other allies of the US who wanted this Ukrainian prosecutor gone because of corruptiion and it was not because of Biden’s son because he did not prosecute Burisma and his son, so for that there was no reason to get rid of him.January 21, 2020 2:53 pm at 2:53 pm #1824814
I realize I did not write a coherent sentence. “CTL: I know you dont agree with nor with his moral values but yet you would” should have read I know you dont agree with Trump nor with his moral values but yet you would”January 21, 2020 4:40 pm at 4:40 pm #1824910jackkParticipant
You call spending 8 years questioning whether Obama was even an American (and some R’s still believe this) and declaring him a closet Muslim as not hating him so much ?
Read some posts whenever the name Obama gets mentioned even in passing and you will hear real sinah to him , his wife and his kids.
Obama is hated by R’s just as much as D’s Trump.
The hypocrisy is that when Trump does the exact same thing as Obama did , Trump supporters love it.January 21, 2020 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #1824894👑RebYidd23Participant
I don’t really understand why anyone who has seen or heard from Biden lately would vote for him. I’d maybe understand voting for him back when he was alive, but now that the DNC has reanimated his corpse in order to keep the Democratic Party bland, I just don’t get it.January 21, 2020 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #1824930
I didn’t say I will vote for Biden, but If he is innocent, we should acknowledge that.January 21, 2020 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #1824934
Because Trump outdid him politicallyJanuary 21, 2020 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #1824987RebbeDebbieParticipant
Reb Eliezer, there’s no way Biden is innocent.
Your point about our “allies” wishes reminds me of something we teach our children. If all of our allies wanted someone to jump off of a bridge, should we encourage the potential jumper in the name of peaceful diplomatic relations, or encourage the individual to do the right thing?January 21, 2020 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #1824988
Perhaps the allies wanted him out. But why did Biden get involved??
Was it Maybe because he had a personal interest to keep his son out of trouble?? Hmmmm.where have I heard such a thing before?
Casting aspersions, on someone making allegations with zero proof, just someone’s conjecture .
I don’t know , where have I heard such a thing before ?
you think maybe such things would be impeachable?
Oh! Wait you say. There is no proof that his son ever would have been the subject of an investigation? Ah that must be it.
Cause in the hypothetical case you are loaded with proof of his intent I get it.
What a foolish positionJanuary 21, 2020 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #1824994
I don’t care about Biden’s grandchild, it wasn’t fathered by Joe Biden
I think Buttigieg would make an excellent VP candidate. He needs more years and experience before being Presidential material….especially foreign affairs
I put Bloomberg and Steyer’s names in my post to make people realize there are other candidates. Not one word appears in this thread about Senator Klobuchar…she has promise.January 21, 2020 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #1824995
I’ve posted before I don’t hate Trump, I hate his actions.
He cost my family more than 300K in unpaid invoices when he filed bankruptcy for properties in Atlantic City. Our telecommunications equipment company had supplied the phone systems for two casinos. He appointed Linda McMahon of WWE to a major post. She beat our company for 200K in her corporate bankruptcy.
My brother started the company back in 1977. I was an investor and partner and shared in the losses.
Trump is an adulterer, liar, deadbeat, etc. That’s enough reasons for me to dislike his actions.January 21, 2020 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #1824997
Hypocrisy is also when trump does the same thing as Obama the democrats scream but not when Obama did it
I don’t remember any sinah towards his family but hey it was a while agoJanuary 22, 2020 8:07 am at 8:07 am #1825068
Bankruptcy happens in business.January 22, 2020 10:22 am at 10:22 am #1825087
“If you think this thrice married adulterer, bankrupt liar is a proper role model for the country I feel sorry for your lack of morals.”
“I never used the term deport………………
I said he should pack up his fractured family and leave the country.“
“The Adulterer in Chief, Liar in Chief wouldn’t know how to do an honorable thing. It is time for him and his despicable fractured family to pack up and leave the country. Let his buddy (puppeteer) Putin resettle them in Siberia“
“I don’t support the thrice married adulterer who spews lies every time he opens his mouth.“
You don’t hate him, you DESPISE himJanuary 23, 2020 10:40 am at 10:40 am #1825369
You know what part of the issue is?
People who think ANY of the umos haolam are role models.
So along comes someone like this and they can pretend to become champions of morality to cover for their personal animus towards him.
Realize that our role models are our rabbanim and all we need is politicians who don’t hurt us. Kal vachomer if their policies are good for us (like trump)
And by the way, if you want to know how you can have trump be a role model, if you really need to. View him a a ”Baal teshuva”
All the moral failings he is called out for are old. In the white house he has had no moral failings, unlike a hero called Billy boy who’s enables wife was championed as the one who should be president now by the very ones who shout about trumps moral failings.
He has been nothing short of a ruthless businessman with his business being the United States.
He is not a Jew. Don’t hold him to the Torah standards for jewsJanuary 23, 2020 10:41 am at 10:41 am #1825372January 23, 2020 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm #1825437
klugeryid, you don’t appear as klug as your name. A president is required to be examplary role model to look up to, which he is not.January 23, 2020 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #1825451
RE: I don recall that “A president is required to be examplary role model to look up to, which he is not.” all that is required is to be a natural born US citizen and be 35 year old. I am pretty sure that Bill “I have caused pain in my marriage” Clinton didnt meet your requirement.January 23, 2020 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #1825456
Were you saying the same thing when Clinton was President and wanted him impeached?January 23, 2020 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #1825493
As I am listening to the impeachment trial, they say that there is no validity to the allegations against Biden, and by removing the prosecuror creates more chance with the new prosecuter that Burisma and his son would be investigated. Biden followed the existing US policy at his time together with the EU and other US allies. Biden’s son was aquited by Ukrainian officials indicating that he did nothing wrong. This was after the prosecutor Sholkin was removed.January 23, 2020 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #1825532
RE: how does your response in 1825493 answer the questions in 1825456 and 1825451?January 23, 2020 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #1825565
Two wrongs don’t make a right. People want to look up to their president. I will only vote for someone I can look up to.January 23, 2020 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #1825568
I did not agree with all policies of Bush as the Iraq War, but he was an honorable person.January 23, 2020 8:48 pm at 8:48 pm #1825583
I will vote based on many things morality being high on the list. But not the way you view it a Serial adulterer who leaves public policy alone in my opinion is a lot more beneficial for the moral fabric of our country than somebody who like ,Obama, for example example, in his personal life at least during the eight years of his presidency had no morality failings.
Yet his policies of rainbow inclusion for alphabet soup degenerates (lbgtq…) and redefinition of marriage make him in my opinion an amoral scumbag lower than old dirt.
Whereas trump can adulterate himself to purgatory, doesn’t make him an amoral person.. Just a ‘baal tavah ‘
And honestly as a non Jew what exactly did he do so bad??
Just visceral hate.January 23, 2020 8:48 pm at 8:48 pm #1825587
”Reb ” Eliezer
Who would you rather have as a role model in the white house
”Mr Obama ” stable family man wife two kids and a dog who supports gay marriage, gender fluidity, onerous wealth taxes, government regulation of private activities (styrofoam , white wheat flour…. ”) understanding and ” compassion” for criminals at the expense of law abiding citizens?
Or trump, serial adulterer, thrice married dysfunctional family, who supports traditional marriage, gender as gender, personal property rights, the right to feel safe from nefarious activity by others personal freedom?
I call Trump a moral man with human Failings
He is a role model if you want one
Obama is an evil degenerate with a skewered moral compass that is so perverse he can’t even bring himself to live by it
An awful role model for humanityJanuary 24, 2020 8:53 am at 8:53 am #1825625bsharg2Participant
I am voting for Trump
however, I am just curious—-which of the Democratic nominees is best for Israel?
CT lawyerJanuary 24, 2020 8:54 am at 8:54 am #1825633
klugeryid, you don’t know your histoty. Obama was against same gender until Biden forced him to change his mind.
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