Why does Biden get a pass Or ”the donkey in the room ”

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  • #1824278

    klugeryid
    Participant

    can we openly discuss the donkey in the room?
    Joe Biden bragged, on a now widely disseminated video, about threatening to withhold money that was promised to Ukraine, unless a specific prosecutor was fired.
    There was a fear that that prosecutor would make things a bit hot for the interests of at least one of the Bidens .
    Should Joe and his boss Obama, whom he openly implicated, In that same video, have been impeached?
    If yes, why is it OK for Joe to now run for president undisturbed by that?
    If not can we please get a logical rational explanation of why, and how it is materially different than what trump is accused of?
    Reb Eleizer
    Rebbe Debbie
    Amil zola
    CT lawyer

    You have on this forum vociferously advocated for the impeachment of president Trump.
    So I ask specifically if at least one of you can set forth a logical explanation for this example of glaring hypocrisy.
    Yes this is an honest question.
    It is one of the underpinnings of the contention that this entire ”impeachment ”is just a sham partisan low blow.
    Let’s have an open and frank discussion about it.

    #1824478

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Bump

    #1824495

    RebbeDebbie
    Participant

    Just because I do not like Trump does not mean I support Biden. #YangGang2020

    #1824510

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    klugeryid, I don’t know if the moderators will allow the aricle., so google biden fires prosecutor. Read the artiicle from USA Today dated October 3, 2019 tiltled Explainer – Biden, allies pushed out Ukranian prosecutor.

    #1824515

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    I detest Trump’s actions, but that doesn’t mean I support Biden. In fact I shall not be voting for Biden or Sanders in the Primary or CT State Democratic convention. I have made my point in my local Democratic Town Committee that both of these men are too old to start a 4 year term as President. They have had their time in elected office and it time for new faces.

    As to the accusations of the OP. Vice Presidents have no power except to break ties in the Senate. They stand in the wings, fill in for the President at funerals and inaugurations around the world but cannot hire or fire federal officials. I doubt there was an impeachable offense. Much of what Biden is accused of happened when he was not in office (after January 20, 2017 and therefore not subject to impeachment.

    #1824517

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Joe Biden cannot be held responsible for anything that he has done in the past few years.

    #1824520

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Search on the USA Today website on the full title, Explainer – Biden, allies pushed out Ukrainian prosecutor because he didn’t pursue corruption cases.

    #1824528

    Billywee
    Participant

    Maybe they should of been impeached, may be not. That has no bearing on Trumps impeachment. Nor does it prove this impeachment is a sham.

    #1824567

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Amazing let’s recap our rational logic defenses
    Rebbe Debbie doesn’t support Biden. (how that answers the question escapes me) rating? Dodge
    Reb Eleizer sends me to a USA today article. As if I’ll get objective reporting there. Rating , passing the buck
    CT lawyer goes on a verbal tear throwing in who knows what And in the process teaching me much that I was unaware of.
    Such as that the Ukrainian prosecutors work for the United States federal government? Otherwise I fail to understand how that comment is Germain. Additionally, thanks for letting us know that mr. Biden is an out-and-out liar as mr. Biden clearly stated that it was him acting on the say-so of his boss the president of the United States Mr Obama , sending out the message that if they don’t fire the prosecutor then the billions in money will not come if I remember correctly he gave him a time frame of just a few hours by the time I get on the plane I better hear that the prosecutor was fired .but Mr CT lawyer avers that this took place after Obama left office.
    Unless somehow the ukrainians we’re unaware of that this was post election and Obama was no longer president .
    I don’t know I’m still unclear on that after Mr lawyers post.
    Rating, obfuscation
    Reb yid pleads insanity on behalf of another.while it’s probably true, it’s not really comforting, being as he is talking about the democrat front runner to be president. Rating, true but damning

    Reb Eleizer comes back for more but this time I’m totally lost as to his point. Rating , ramble

    Billywee plays the Hillary card ”who cares. It’s over ”
    Only problem with that is trump can really say the same thing.
    Rating, 50-50

    In summation. Nobody from the vocal left on this forum has actually put forth any defense for the glaring hypocrisy.
    I rest my case.

    #1824579

    1
    Participant

    CTL is voting Warren 😒

    #1824614

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Kluger……Biden’s effort to get rid of the corrupt prosecutor in question were consistent with the efforts of ALL the other European countries ‘who were also trying to persuade Ukraine to get rid of the guy before they would contribute additional funds. As others have noted, there is no comparison with the current situation with the Trumpkpf. But even if there was some analogy, what does that have to do with Trump’s claim he was doing so to “fight corruption”. Never in our history have we had a president who has expressed “love” and “great respect” for the world’s most corrupt and evil foreign leaders in Russia, China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, etc. Tonight we learned he ordered the Sec of State to “get rid of the law” (the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act”) that prohibits American countries from bribing foreign government entities. So much for the “Corruption Fighter in Chief”.

    #1824610

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    klugeryid. did you read the article which answers your question?

    #1824624

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    klugeryid, I am sending you to the article that answers your question. The moderators don’t accept the artucle or a web link.

    #1824664

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    klugeryid, GH says the same thing. Why are you asking the question, if you don’t want to accept the answer from anyone?

    #1824663

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Reb Eleizer
    No. I don’t believe one word of what they write so I didn’t bother looking for it

    GH.
    Firstly, you win the prize. An actual rational response. I gave up on that happening.
    I wouldn’t say ”never In our history …”
    We just had Obama and his obeisance tour of the worlds despots.

    Again. Though. If it’s OK to use our countries money to leverage our position, I don’t see what’s wrong with doing so when it also serves my purposes.
    Had he said, if you don’t smear the bidens then I won’t give you the money, well that would be corruption.
    But here he maximum said, I believe the bidens had corrupt dealings in your country. If you won’t investigate, no more cash. What is wrong?????

    #1824681

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Correction to my prior post….Trump the Corruption Fighter tried to get former Sec of State Tillerson to get rid of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act which prohibits American COMPANIES from bribing foreign officials (See documentation in new book entitled “Trump the Stable Genius” which went on sale in the past hour on Amazon and other booksites)
    Also, with respect to the Bidens, if a President’s/Vice President’s family making money from the WH connections was an impeachable offense, Trump would be back selling condos in Moscow by now. While there were episodes throughout American history of this kind of “corriuption” including with Carter (remember Billy Beer), the Bushes (Neil and the Banks) etc. The Trumpkopf kids and in-laws are making more $$ from their Daddy’s position than any of their predecessors.

    #1824675

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    klugeryid, I would not have pointed out to you, if it wasn’t worthwhile. You are insulting me by not reading it that I am so naive to believe everything.

    #1824705

    klugeryid
    Participant

    OK Reb Eleizer.
    Even though no offense was meant, I read the article you alluded to.
    Typical liberal white wash. Exactly as I suspected it would be. The more so since you were pushing me to read it and knowing your general positions
    But once I read it, a few comments if I may. I’ll put my comments in caps to differentiate from the text of the article.

    But sources ranging from former Obama administration officials to an anti-corruption advocate in Ukraine say the official, Viktor Shokin, was ousted for the opposite reason Trump and his allies claim. MAJOR SOURCE THERE. OBAMA OFFICIALS AVER THAT BIDEN DID NOTHING WRONG AND TRUMP IS LYING. WOW. NOW I’M CONVINCED. TOTALLY.

    You saw the vice president begin to emerge as really sort of the senior policy lead on Ukraine,” Pifer said. “It’s good to have attention at that level.” UM, CT LAWYER? DON’T VICE PRESIDENTS DO NOTHING? NOT LIKE LEAD POLICY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

    Burisma Holdings was not under scrutiny at the time Joe Biden called for Shokin’s ouster, according to the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine, an independent agency set up in 2014 that has worked closely with the FBI.SO NOW WE ARE TRUSTING A RANDOM BUREAU IN UKRAINE TO ESTABLISH FACTS, TO GO FORWARD AND IMPEACH OUR PRESIDENT.

    Shokin’s office had investigated Burisma, but the probe focused on a period before Hunter Biden joined the company, according to the anti-corruption bureau. RIGHT. AND THE DECISION TO HIRE BIDEN JR WAS MADE IN ABOUT TWENTY MIN. THE DAY BEFORE HE STARTED WORKING THERE. SO IF THIS PROBE WAS FOCUSED ON THE TIME RIGHT BEFORE BIDEN STARTED WORKING THERE, THERE IS NO WAY IT COULD HAVE BEEN CONNECTED.

    happy now? I read the article
    Rating whitewash and snow job.

    I asked a simple question. Biden held back money because of supposed corruption in a foreign country, he is lauded.
    Trump is accused of holding up money to a foreign country because of corruption, he is impeached.
    And a reasonable person is supposed to think it’s not a revenge job by sore losers (especially when they have been promising to find a reason to impeach him since the day he was elected)

    #1824709

    jackk
    Participant

    Ky,

    You have a point. The House of Representatives rejected it.
    That is the reason for a FULL trial in the senate.
    Let us all hear from all the witnesses on both sides and let them determine which reasoning is more compelling.
    Was it Trump really caring about corruption or as many have testified that it was a tactic to knock off Biden.

    #1824734

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @1
    Wrong as usual
    Not a fan of Senator Warren……she has yet to show how she can fund her Medicare for All plans in a fiscally sound way
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That said, if she is the nominee and is running against Trump, I will vote against Trump
    But…….
    There are other choices besides, Warren, Sanders, Biden, Buttigieg……
    Steyer, and Bloomberg are more to my liking. I don’t buy Yang’s $1000 month welfare for all.

    #1824759

    1
    Participant

    Lol Bloomberg. Thanks for playing. If you vote for any Democrat you vote against Jews.

    #1824761

    CTL: I know you dont agree with nor with his moral values but yet you would consider voting for Buttigieg? Biden who has a son that has fathered a child out of wedlock (and denied it?)

    #1824763

    1
    Participant

    Steyer invests in private prisons. If that’s your guy, you lose any respect.

    #1824783

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Jackk,

    Interesting because Democrats like to only hear from people that agree with their views

    CTlawyer,

    I wanted to start a new thread on this but here’s a good place to put my question

    “Why do you hate trump so much?”

    I don’t think any republican here hated Obama with as much passion as you hate trump

    #1824799

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    klugeeyid, Biden followed other allies of the US who wanted this Ukrainian prosecutor gone because of corruptiion and it was not because of Biden’s son because he did not prosecute Burisma and his son, so for that there was no reason to get rid of him.

    #1824814

    I realize I did not write a coherent sentence. “CTL: I know you dont agree with nor with his moral values but yet you would” should have read I know you dont agree with Trump nor with his moral values but yet you would”

    #1824910

    jackk
    Participant

    CA,

    You call spending 8 years questioning whether Obama was even an American (and some R’s still believe this) and declaring him a closet Muslim as not hating him so much ?
    Read some posts whenever the name Obama gets mentioned even in passing and you will hear real sinah to him , his wife and his kids.
    Obama is hated by R’s just as much as D’s Trump.
    The hypocrisy is that when Trump does the exact same thing as Obama did , Trump supporters love it.

    #1824894

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I don’t really understand why anyone who has seen or heard from Biden lately would vote for him. I’d maybe understand voting for him back when he was alive, but now that the DNC has reanimated his corpse in order to keep the Democratic Party bland, I just don’t get it.

    #1824930

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    I didn’t say I will vote for Biden, but If he is innocent, we should acknowledge that.

    #1824934

    1
    Participant

    Because Trump outdid him politically

    #1824987

    RebbeDebbie
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer, there’s no way Biden is innocent.

    Your point about our “allies” wishes reminds me of something we teach our children. If all of our allies wanted someone to jump off of a bridge, should we encourage the potential jumper in the name of peaceful diplomatic relations, or encourage the individual to do the right thing?

    #1824988

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Reb Eleizer
    Perhaps the allies wanted him out. But why did Biden get involved??
    Was it Maybe because he had a personal interest to keep his son out of trouble?? Hmmmm.where have I heard such a thing before?
    Casting aspersions, on someone making allegations with zero proof, just someone’s conjecture .
    I don’t know , where have I heard such a thing before ?
    you think maybe such things would be impeachable?

    Oh! Wait you say. There is no proof that his son ever would have been the subject of an investigation? Ah that must be it.
    Cause in the hypothetical case you are loaded with proof of his intent I get it.
    What a foolish position

    #1824994

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @Lowerourtuition
    I don’t care about Biden’s grandchild, it wasn’t fathered by Joe Biden
    I think Buttigieg would make an excellent VP candidate. He needs more years and experience before being Presidential material….especially foreign affairs

    I put Bloomberg and Steyer’s names in my post to make people realize there are other candidates. Not one word appears in this thread about Senator Klobuchar…she has promise.

    #1824995

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @coffeeaddict

    I’ve posted before I don’t hate Trump, I hate his actions.
    He cost my family more than 300K in unpaid invoices when he filed bankruptcy for properties in Atlantic City. Our telecommunications equipment company had supplied the phone systems for two casinos. He appointed Linda McMahon of WWE to a major post. She beat our company for 200K in her corporate bankruptcy.

    My brother started the company back in 1977. I was an investor and partner and shared in the losses.
    Trump is an adulterer, liar, deadbeat, etc. That’s enough reasons for me to dislike his actions.

    #1824997

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Jackk,

    Hypocrisy is also when trump does the same thing as Obama the democrats scream but not when Obama did it

    I don’t remember any sinah towards his family but hey it was a while ago

    #1825068

    1
    Participant

    Bankruptcy happens in business.

    #1825087

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    CTlawyer,

    “If you think this thrice married adulterer, bankrupt liar is a proper role model for the country I feel sorry for your lack of morals.”

    “I never used the term deport………………
    I said he should pack up his fractured family and leave the country.“

    “The Adulterer in Chief, Liar in Chief wouldn’t know how to do an honorable thing. It is time for him and his despicable fractured family to pack up and leave the country. Let his buddy (puppeteer) Putin resettle them in Siberia“

    “I don’t support the thrice married adulterer who spews lies every time he opens his mouth.“

    You don’t hate him, you DESPISE him

    #1825369

    klugeryid
    Participant

    You know what part of the issue is?
    People who think ANY of the umos haolam are role models.
    So along comes someone like this and they can pretend to become champions of morality to cover for their personal animus towards him.
    Realize that our role models are our rabbanim and all we need is politicians who don’t hurt us. Kal vachomer if their policies are good for us (like trump)
    And by the way, if you want to know how you can have trump be a role model, if you really need to. View him a a ”Baal teshuva”
    All the moral failings he is called out for are old. In the white house he has had no moral failings, unlike a hero called Billy boy who’s enables wife was championed as the one who should be president now by the very ones who shout about trumps moral failings.
    He has been nothing short of a ruthless businessman with his business being the United States.
    He is not a Jew. Don’t hold him to the Torah standards for jews

    #1825372

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @coffeeaddict
    after all, Trump is despicable

    #1825437

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    klugeryid, you don’t appear as klug as your name. A president is required to be examplary role model to look up to, which he is not.

    #1825451

    RE: I don recall that “A president is required to be examplary role model to look up to, which he is not.” all that is required is to be a natural born US citizen and be 35 year old. I am pretty sure that Bill “I have caused pain in my marriage” Clinton didnt meet your requirement.

    #1825456

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Reb eliezer,

    Were you saying the same thing when Clinton was President and wanted him impeached?

    #1825493

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    As I am listening to the impeachment trial, they say that there is no validity to the allegations against Biden, and by removing the prosecuror creates more chance with the new prosecuter that Burisma and his son would be investigated. Biden followed the existing US policy at his time together with the EU and other US allies. Biden’s son was aquited by Ukrainian officials indicating that he did nothing wrong. This was after the prosecutor Sholkin was removed.

    #1825532

    RE: how does your response in 1825493 answer the questions in 1825456 and 1825451?

    #1825565

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Two wrongs don’t make a right. People want to look up to their president. I will only vote for someone I can look up to.

    #1825568

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    I did not agree with all policies of Bush as the Iraq War, but he was an honorable person.

    #1825583

    klugeryid
    Participant

    I will vote based on many things morality being high on the list. But not the way you view it a Serial adulterer who leaves public policy alone in my opinion is a lot more beneficial for the moral fabric of our country than somebody who like ,Obama, for example example, in his personal life at least during the eight years of his presidency had no morality failings.
    Yet his policies of rainbow inclusion for alphabet soup degenerates (lbgtq…) and redefinition of marriage make him in my opinion an amoral scumbag lower than old dirt.
    Whereas trump can adulterate himself to purgatory, doesn’t make him an amoral person.. Just a ‘baal tavah ‘
    And honestly as a non Jew what exactly did he do so bad??
    Just visceral hate.

    #1825587

    klugeryid
    Participant

    ”Reb ” Eliezer
    Who would you rather have as a role model in the white house
    ”Mr Obama ” stable family man wife two kids and a dog who supports gay marriage, gender fluidity, onerous wealth taxes, government regulation of private activities (styrofoam , white wheat flour…. ”) understanding and ” compassion” for criminals at the expense of law abiding citizens?

    Or trump, serial adulterer, thrice married dysfunctional family, who supports traditional marriage, gender as gender, personal property rights, the right to feel safe from nefarious activity by others personal freedom?

    I call Trump a moral man with human Failings
    He is a role model if you want one

    Obama is an evil degenerate with a skewered moral compass that is so perverse he can’t even bring himself to live by it
    An awful role model for humanity

    #1825625

    bsharg2
    Participant

    I am voting for Trump

    however, I am just curious—-which of the Democratic nominees is best for Israel?
    Reb Eleizer
    Rebbe Debbie
    Amil zola
    CT lawyer

    #1825633

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    klugeryid, you don’t know your histoty. Obama was against same gender until Biden forced him to change his mind.

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