why is it fair for a younger daughter to have to wait for the older daughter?

Home Forums Shidduchim why is it fair for a younger daughter to have to wait for the older daughter?

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  • #597368

    lcohen18
    Member

    I have two daughters, one is 18 and one is 19. The 19 year old attended seminary in isreal the 18 year old couldnt attend because of financial diffuclties and had to attend a community college, as a result this year turned her into a very mature younglady. Recently, a great shidduch was offerd to us for her, the 18 year old and my 19 year old doesnt want to hear of it and absolutly doesnt allow (she has been dating for almost two years). I know she is young but we are sephardi and its normal to get married at 18. Who made up this rule anyhow? where is our emunah and bitachon?

    #776278

    shlishi
    Member

    Many Gedolim were against marrying off a younger child first. Some Gedolim allowed it in extenuating circumstances. But at such a young age its hard to see extenuating circumstances. Especially considering the older daughters not being agreeable to it.

    #776279

    am yisrael chai
    Participant

    Ask your chacham for advice.

    (I know of a case where the older didn’t give permission…neither of the 2 sisters ended up getting married)

    #776280

    get a life
    Member

    Not that I think it is fair but the source is probably from Rachel and Leah. When Laven switched them and Yackov asks why Laven answers “lo yaasa ken bmkominu” it is not done in our community to marry off the younger before the elder.

    Is there someone your older daughter is close with that she can discuss this with? Someone who is objective? perhaps someone for her seminary in Isreal?

    As to Emuna, If you have emuna perhaps this is not the shidduch for the younger one.

    #776281

    real-brisker
    Member

    It’s not fair either way.

    #776282

    wanderingchana
    Participant

    The 18 yo didn’t get to go to seminary like her big sister and now she should let go of her b’shert because of her big sister? Who is the 19 yo to “not allow” her sister to get married??

    #776283

    RedNails19
    Participant

    I had a very similar issue- my older sister did not allow me to go when shidduchim were coming up for me…i asked a rav and he really guided me the right way. You should definitly ask a Rav/Chacham.

    (to end off, bh my sister is marreid bh and there never issue of the younger one getting married before the older)

    #776284

    aries2756
    Participant

    There shouldn’t be machlokes between sisters. If the older daughter does not give her blessing to he sister to go ahead with the shidduch then there will be “kinnah” and bad feelings. That is something to avoid at all costs. These sisters have to love each other first, and they have to want the best for both.

    #776285

    wanderingchana
    Participant

    What if the younger has bad feelings toward the older for not giving her blessing? Why can’t the older sister just be happy that the younger sister found her b’shert?

    #776286

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Why is it fair for an older sister to suffer the tremendous humiliation of seeing her younger sister get married first?

    #776287

    yoyo56
    Member

    i know of a family who had an issue that the oldest girl was going out for awhile and she didnt find her bashert and it was time for the next girl to start dating and the mother decided that she will allow her thinking that maybe her shidduch would come through her and it did

    #776288

    RedNails19
    Participant

    wanderinchana- I understand what your saying but is this in a case where the sister has found her bashert and is engaged?

    #776289

    IUseBrains
    Participant

    My advice would be to allow the younger one to go out , and tell the older one to remember the sacrifice of Rochel Imeinu for Leah.

    Hashem will surely send her a zivug hogun bekorov!

    #776290

    IUseBrains
    Participant

    btw i am a shadchan, u can get my info from the mod.

    #776291

    charliehall
    Participant

    ‘Who is the 19 yo to “not allow” her sister to get married??’

    I was wondering the same thing!

    #776292

    IUseBrains
    Participant

    My advice would be to allow the younger one to go out , and tell the older one to remember the sacrifice of Rochel Imeinu for Leah.

    Hashem will surely send her a zivug hogun bekorov!

    btw i am a shadchan, u can get my info from the mod.

    #776293

    aries2756
    Participant

    Wanderingchana, as outsiders this is not something we can help with. This is something that they have to work on as a family, maybe with the help of a Rav or a family therapist.

    #776295

    mom of a few
    Member

    They are both young. Wait at least another year. It won’t look good for shidduchim for the older one if the younger one went when she was not even that old.

    #776296

    Brucklyn Jewess
    Participant

    I think you should go ahead with the shidduch for the 18 yr old. It is unfair to withhold a shidduch from her because she has an older sister. I am in the same predicament (have a younger sister in shidduchim and I am in shidduchim) and would be absolutely horrified if I was the reason that prevented my sister from even meeting a shidduch possibiity.

    You, or someone else, needs to speak to the older daughter, because this seems to be a deeper issue. Your 19 yr old needs to come to terms with the fact that life events do not always play out the way we’d like. And this is probably not the last time she will face something like this (although we all wish it was).

    By the way, involvement lessens feelings of jealousy. Meaning, if the older daughter is quite involved in the goings-on of the shidduch, it will help her overcome her hard feelings. (Contrary to the instinctive reaction of hiding things…)

    #776297

    twisted
    Participant

    Why is it fair? Because it is the holy minhag going back to Lavan the idolater uncle of ours, and everybody knows, you dare not ster the holy minhagim!

    #776298

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Who said life must be “fair”?

    I dobt know what Rabbanim say about younger sisters marrying before older, but, is Lavan a legitimate source for anything?

    #776299

    bezalel
    Participant

    I dobt know what Rabbanim say about younger sisters marrying before older, but, is Lavan a legitimate source for anything?

    I don’t recall the meforshim saying that Lavan was lieing about the local costoms.

    #776301

    real-brisker
    Member

    DY – I agree with you, check out my earlier post.

    #776302

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    r-b,

    Yes, I was just pointing out the perspective of the older sibling.

    Of course, it’s not a simple matter, and each case must be evaluated separately.

    I know a family in which the older sister met a young man but felt he wasn’t for her, so she suggested him for her sister. They are now married, but the older sister is still single several tears later.

    I know of a different story in which the younger brother married before his older sister, who refused to speak to him until the day she died (a spinster).

    Another story I’m familiar with involved two brothers. The younger one was told that he does not have to wait, but he chose to, regardless. The older one finally got engaged, and two months later, the younger one found his bashert.

    I could go on, but my point is that it’s a complex issue, and one never knows how much pain could be caused to either party/

    #776303

    cherrybim
    Participant

    What about a younger brother waiting for the older brother?

    #776304

    Pac-Man
    Member

    No different.

    #776306

    veteran
    Member

    Joseph- get a hold of yourself! Of course it’s different, since stopping the younger brother means delaying a kiyyum mitzvah.

    #776307

    Midwest2
    Participant

    And my apologies to Dorothy, Toto, the Wizard and the rest of the gang. Probably not too many people in the CR remember “The Wizard of Oz.”

    #776308

    Pac-Man
    Member

    Vet – So you are saying that a younger brother shouldn’t wait for an older sister, even if a younger sister is made to wait?

    #776309

    TweetTweet
    Participant

    You can’t blame the older sister for not wanting her younger sister to get married before her. It has nothing to do with jealousy. The reality is that if the younger sister goes first, it will hurt the shidduchim of the older one. People will assume something is wrong with her, even if nothing is. After all, why else would they let the younger one go first. Also, it hurts to hear every single person say IY”H by you. People will look at her and say “nebach, she needs a shidduch”. Waiting a year won’t hurt anybody. Why assume that the younger one will “miss” her bashert at 18 years old? There does come a time however when even if it will hurt the older one, she may have to just be skipped, and this has to be discussed with a Rav.

    #776310

    IUseBrains
    Participant

    Rochel actually gave away her simonim to leah even thow this meant givung away her husband!

    In that zechus, klal yisroel will be redeemed!

    #776311

    Gadolseeker
    Member

    I am the youngest and have a sister above me who is single. In my case, she WANTS me to start dating. She doesn’t want me to wait for her to find the one just because she hasn’t found hers yet. I didn’t tell her this but, I’m not starting to date because I can’t possibly imagine me getting engaged before her. I couldn’t be happy if I was engaged and she wasn’t. Of course she would be happy for me if I were to get engaged before her, but she would deep down be hurt. It’s hard enough when all the girls your age are married, she doesn’t need a younger sister married first. I told her I wasn’t ready to start dating, really it’s just because I want her to go first. Obviously at a certain point I’m going to have to go out even if chas ve’shalom she’s not married…that’s why I’m praying hard that she gets engaged before it gets to that point.

    #776312

    eman
    Participant

    I heard a story where an older brother was having a hard time finding his bashert. His younger brother was redd a shiduch and asked the older brother for reshus, which was granted. A year later the younger brothers shvigger made a shiduch for the older brother.

    #776313

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Betzalel. Let’s assume he was truthful about the minhag hamakom, who said we adopted the minhag of naharam naharaim?

    #776314

    missfrizzle
    Member

    As a younger sister who was/is waiting for her older sister, I want to share my opinion. Someone asked why is it fair for the older girl if the younger one get married first. So I want to answer that it is all in Hashem’s hands. I am now dating as is my sister. When Hashem determines it is the right time for each of us it will happen. Whoever might go first. But we will look into and go out whenever a shidduch is arranged. Our Tefillos are what matter. Maybe if we daven for each other it will happen for us both. Good Luck with whatever is decided.

    #776315

    blinky
    Participant
    #776317

    I’m an older sister in a similar situation (except she’s 2 years younger) and I firmly believe that each of us will find our shidduch in the right time, and there is no point in rushing it or holding back.

    In your case, since the younger one went to college, they are probably already in different tracks in life and looking for different things. It’s good to nip in the bud the feeling of keeping up with the joneses, everyone gets what’s meant for them.

    But of course, ask your Rabbi / Chacham.

    #776318

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I wouldn’t wait.

    #776319

    yeshivabochur123
    Participant

    Don’t know about your specific case but often times the two brothers or sisters who are so close in age are both similar in personality and character. Obviously you have the same parents and I presume went to the same schools so though each person is a little different it is possible that the shidduchim suggested for you could be shayach for your sister too. By competing against your sister you are potentially disadvantaging her in getting dates that would be suggested to her for yourself. Wait a little it’s not going to matter in the long run if you are married at 18 or 20 or (gasp) 21 if it makes your sister happy.

    #776320

    bezalel
    Participant

    apushatayid:

    I don’t know, I was just reponding to your previous post.

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