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July 23, 2018 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #1563358Reb EliezerParticipant
David Hamelech says אבן מאסו הבונים היתה לראש פנה the rock that the builders despised was placed at the head corner.July 23, 2018 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #1563357
shlucha-“It was quite a shock to the family when he was anointed let alone the country’s reaction when he became king. I guess that’s why it took him so long to establish his kingship. If there was such a shock factor when it came to just the ancestor of moshiach, imagine how it’ll be by moshiach himself. ”
-You mean when the Rebbe gets anointed? And this is why its taking so long because it is such a shock factor? I dont think you couldve been any clearer here. Also where in Daniel does it say that Moshiach will be dead? Theres a difference between concealed or not living.
Anyway can you just stop forcing this on everyone?July 23, 2018 7:31 pm at 7:31 pm #1563387CSParticipant
Icemelter I didn’t say anything about the Rebbe you did. I responded to one poster who said theres no such thing as coming a second time with the Rashi and my own thoughts based on history that however moshiach is gonna come that’s will probably be some major shock element and we should expect the unexpected. That’s all. Not interested in debating about the Rebbe back and forth because that’s not anything worth arguing about as it isn’t the main point.July 23, 2018 7:57 pm at 7:57 pm #1563430☕️coffee addictParticipant
Anyways coming a second time has the be the rebbe 🙄
It can’t be chizkiyah or bar kochba or the countless other people that could’ve been moshiach before the rebbeJuly 23, 2018 7:59 pm at 7:59 pm #1563436
It probably wont be such a shock since if we see whoever Moshiach is fighting a physical war and leading us we will probably know who it is and be able to point out”zehu Moshiach”! But ya it would definitely be exciting ; )July 23, 2018 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #1563440🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Concealed means hidden. The only thing that sounds like another religion is ch”v substituting concealed for dead.July 23, 2018 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #1563454
Wait, back up, did Gadolhador actually just make CR history by making the first ever pro-talking-in-shul post?
No, you did not or it would not have been approved
Did I miss something? I mean, I can clearly see tons of people talk when they shouldn’t in davening, but I never thought I’d see them take to the internet and take a stand against the Rabbi’s telling them to stop talking and follow the halachah.
Is there really a group of people who look at those of us who don’t talk as grumpy guys who can’t get with the times and realize that in 2018 davening is “happy hour?”July 24, 2018 12:29 am at 12:29 am #1563486
shlucha-you still didnt answer any of the questions. You also made some strong hints with your previous posts.July 24, 2018 8:23 am at 8:23 am #1563539
Wait, I did not what?July 24, 2018 10:35 am at 10:35 am #1563616CSParticipant
“It probably wont be such a shock since if we see whoever Moshiach is fighting a physical war and leading us we will probably know who it is and be able to point out”zehu Moshiach”! But ya it would definitely be exciting ; )”
Yes or no. Dovid Hamelech fought many years before the whole klal Yisrael accepted him. Also if the wars end up being fought on a spiritual realm then that could also be a surprise factor. Either way it definitely will be exciting and I’m so sick of waiting!!
“shlucha-you still didnt answer any of the questions…”
Yeah I’m not into pointless arguing or wasting time trying to hash things out with someone who’s mind is made up on the topic to begin with…forgive me if my assessment of you is wrong. I love exchanging ideas, and information, all Torah viewpoints. I don’t like needless arguing. I’ve already contributed allot to threads that discuss this sort of thing. It’s nice to just be able to post as a person a thought that occurred to me without
Every controversial topic being brought in needlessly. As a person I comment on threads I find relevant or interesting. Those include women, moshiach and any other Torah discussion I find relevant enough to me personally to comment on.July 24, 2018 11:29 am at 11:29 am #1563685It is Time for TruthParticipant
When it comes to Aggadah
there is a preponderant acceptable position
Those who seek to find it out, check in yotzros ,piyut,,and kinos
In this case that moshiach has not
come at allJuly 24, 2018 12:04 pm at 12:04 pm #1563742Reb EliezerParticipant
That the Lubavitcher Rebbe will be Moshiach is only according to Hillel whose view is that techiyas hamesim will coincide with the comming of the Moshiach, otherwise there will be forty years in between.July 24, 2018 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #1563783
“That the Lubavitcher Rebbe will be Moshiach is only according to Hillel whose view is that techiyas hamesim will coincide with the comming of the Moshiach”
No, it’s only according to Chabad Meshichist’s interpretation of that daf.August 3, 2020 11:58 am at 11:58 am #1889004ychParticipant
I would like to return the conversation to the original question and share a thought with the readership. I ask that my words be reflected upon even if it is not the popular way of thinking. I also ask that this not turn into a bashing/defense of the State of Israel. To be sure, the presentation is certainly תלוי באשלי רברבי, but please listen to the words themselves and see if they resonate with you after some time. This is being written in the midst of the Corona pandemic which served as an impetus to crystallize these thoughts in my mind. ד’ ישלח ישועות לכל בנ”י בקרוב!
The Gemara in Megilla (17b) states in explaining the order of the brachos of Shemone Esrei that the second step in the Geula process is Kibbutz Galuyos as alluded to by the blessing of תקע בשופר, the first is the blossoming of the trees on the mountains on Eretz Yisrael alluded to by ברך עלינו. Only later, after more intermediate steps, comes the arrival of Mashiach. The Beis HaMikdash is built either before or after Mashiach comes. (See Rashi (carefully) vs. Maharsha on that Gemara.) Perhaps one of the עיכובים of Mashiach’s coming, is the fact that the majority of Jewry has not taken up the call of Kibutz Galuyos. (See עיון תפילה in the סידור אוצר התפילות who takes it for granted that one cannot meaningfully daven for Kibutz Galuyos and simultaneously not seek the opportunity to move to Eretz Yisrael – I add : at least minimally to investigate if it can be feasible.) To be sure, as many Rabbanim have pointed out, one must be careful in making Aliya to provide for a proper environment for his family and proper educational frameworks for children. But it would appear to me that not enough are seriously considering this important opportunity which Hashem HaTov has provided for us and to are too quick to dismiss it either based on apathy or problems they’ve heard of without investigation if they can be overcome. Making a decision based on כאן נמצא כאן היה when there are indications that Hashem’s will might just be otherwise is never advisable.
Such a move requires great motivation: to uproot one’s family, environment, cultural framework and daily habits. I humbly recommend to read “To Dwell in the Palace” available here: link removed and/or “A Drop in the Ocean” by Rav Moshe Lichtman to awaken the love of Eretz Yisrael. These hopefully will provide the inspiration to start one’s journey which hopefully will result in transplantation of more families to the Holy Land which hopefully, in addition to Klal Yisrael’s fulfilling more fully the mitzvah of Yishuv Eretz Yisrael, will bring the redemption closer.
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