March 6, 2011 9:36 pm at 9:36 pm #747819
ofcourse: So if you’re not naturally beautiful you’re allowed to wear less tzniusdike clothing? And if you do have a nice figure or a beautiful face, what r u supposed to do then?March 6, 2011 9:41 pm at 9:41 pm #747820
i’m not a guy, so i could be wrong, but it seems to me that when a girl (even if attractive) truly dresses and walks tznius, she does not turn heads. i’ve seen some very tznius people – their whole demeanor is one of tznius and they are not attracting (although they are pretty). whereas, even people who dress according to laws of tznius, somehow, by way walk etc. – people are likely to look at them. it seems like the energy level of these people are different. truly tznius people seem to keep their energy level close to them. does this make any sense? (these are just my own thoughts, may not be true at all).March 6, 2011 9:49 pm at 9:49 pm #747821
looking2grow: i think that if person seems like an amazing, growing person, can try her. (definitely does not have to be a rebbetzin). i think you should trust your instincts. if someone says something that you don’t feel will work, don’t do it. look for someone that you truly feel can understand you and know how to give advice. but as you get closer to the person, see if person has someone who they ask advice. the point of “aseh lecha rav” is that you are getting da’as torah from someone else who got da’as torah from someone else, going all the way back to moshe rabeinu, and it’s more of a straight line thinking, not messed up by our environment and psychology, like most of our thinking is.March 6, 2011 10:03 pm at 10:03 pm #747822
Ofcourse: I think we gotta ask the men on this one.
The best I can say on this is that if a woman who is naturally pretty is really keeping to all the halachos and sensitivities of tznius, she has done all she can and from here on out it’s up to the men to see her for what her dress says she is, and nothing less. Then again, I may be wrong as maybe there is always something you can do.
The average/not too pretty woman I guess should really just focus on the “Tznius is for yourself” aspect, if she really feels that it doesn’t make a difference to men what she wears. Even though I feel that it always does. It’s never good to lessen men’s sensitivities to parts of our bodies that should be covered, no matter how attractive or unattractive they may be. If a great rav saw an ugly lady’s ugly knee, don’t you think he would still cringe and look away?
Oomis: I just saw your comment to looking2grow. She said in one of her posts that she wants to lengthen her skirts because sometimes when she’s sitting or getting out of a car she feels her skirts can ride up and get untznius. If her skirts become untznius when she is in everyday positions then those 2″ inch below the knee skirts are NOT tznius for her k’halahca. So how can she keep wearing them for kibud eim??
looking2grow: I have an mp3 of a really good tznius shiur I heard in sem by R’ Osher Zelig Rubenstein. It was pretty powerful (it was actually the very last shiur we heard in sem) and he did mention mothers a bit. If you’re interested I’d love to send it to you with the mods’ help.March 6, 2011 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #747823OfcourseMember
observanteen, ofcourse: So if you’re not naturally beautiful you’re allowed to wear less tzniusdike clothing? And if you do have a nice figure or a beautiful face, what r u supposed to do then?
Not at all. Tznius rules should be followed. Im just pointing out facts of life. What Im saying is that the really pretty girls (and they know who they are), when they dont follow Tznius rules, they are really taking advantage of the G-d given gifts from Hashem. It’s a test for them! Because theyre the ones who wreak havoc most!March 6, 2011 11:33 pm at 11:33 pm #747824
Ofcourse: True, but, it’s sooo much harder for the slim/pretty girl! The nisyonos are so much greater!March 7, 2011 3:23 pm at 3:23 pm #747825mytakeMember
I love the way you’re honest with yourself when it comes to challenges in Tznius-good luck in the future and thanks so much for sharing the jumper story-it’s a tremendous chizuk for me!
Regarding wearing tight clothes: Is it my imagination, or do the slim women get more criticism for wearing tighter clothes than the average, or not so slim girls and women?
Somehow, I feel that people are much more critical with this particular halacha when it comes to slim girls/women. If the average woman is told to have her skirt or top x inches wider than her figure, than the skinny woman is told to leave x + 2 inches.
Any thoughts?March 7, 2011 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm #747826Be HappyParticipant
I have an article discussing what happens when Moshiach comes?? _ Will you be happy with what you are wearing or will you run and change?March 7, 2011 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #747827
mytake: thanks, and your honesty with yourself also gives me chizuk. But though I wish I could get credit for your chizuk from the jumper story, that was actually observanteen…March 7, 2011 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm #747828mytakeMember
Sorry, meant the weekday dress w/ longer zipper…although all other posts are really inspirational as well…March 8, 2011 5:24 am at 5:24 am #747829
Oh ok, well in that case! Glad I could be of service. And btw, thanks for opening this thread, I’ve heard some really nice stuff here I might have never come across.
Oh, and I would love to offer comments on your recent question but I thought about it and I guess because I haven’t really come across it I pretty much have nothing to say… but I would be interested to hear if anyone else did
Just wanted to wish a public shout out of good luck to everyone.
Just like men’s mitzvah is torah, ours is tznius; it’s the hallmark of what women are and what they stand for. If we keep that in mind hopefully we’ll be able to keep our heads on straight throughout all the cute *almost perfect* clothes we’ll encounter and remember to dress our best all the time. Hatzlocha everyone!March 8, 2011 5:29 am at 5:29 am #747830
mytake: Slim and pretty girls/women will get more schar. But there is something to it. Y’know if an overweight girl puts on tight clothing it doesn’t really make that much of a difference (it’s still not tznua, but it doesn’t scream”look at me!”). But when the pretty/slim girl puts on tight clothing… She definitely turns heads.
Lefum Tzara Agra!March 8, 2011 9:49 am at 9:49 am #747831
sorry guys, i disagree. i think it’s equally wrong for anyone to wear a too tight outfit or to show one’s legs, but could be embarrassing to tell overweight person that their clothes are too tight – they may have gained more weight recently and/or can’t find bigger thing that will fit them. or, if they believe that they are size X, to tell them that they should really be wearing 2 sizes bigger than that may be extremely humiliating to the person. telling someone slimmer to be more careful can easily be said in positive way: you have such an attractive figure, legs, etc. – but….March 8, 2011 9:50 am at 9:50 am #747832
slim girls may have a greater yetzer hora to dress not tzniously. but so what? others may have greater yetzer hora to speak loshon harah. others have more yetzer harah to be stingy, get angry, look at girls who don’t dress tzniously ;)…March 8, 2011 11:32 pm at 11:32 pm #747833
binah: The yetzer hora of L”H is really great. BUT the nisayon of a girl/woman is tznius. ALL nisyonos are hard, but tznius is particularly hard (to most women).
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