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Feminist or no? How many of you do it? What’s your thoughts?
Women were also present at Matan Torah.
I don’t feel the need to, I feel just as good saying Tehillim, but I don’t think it’s necessarily feminist.
We were given Sh’loshah Y’mei Hagbalah in order for the women to be Tahor at Mattan Torah.
Torah
You stay up all night? Or just say the whole Tehillim and then go to sleep?
My wife attends one shiur at the beginning of the evening and then goes to sleep.
My oldest daughter (who has been throught midrasha and is now in Tzahal) stays up all night, learns, and then davens with the early minyan.
My second daughter (second year sheerut leumi) does not stay up at all.
My third daughter (ulpana senior) stays up all night, learns, and then davens with the early minyan.
I am proud of both girls who stay up because they actually learn all night – no hanging out or walking about in the streets through the night.
Takah i hope your middle daughter doesn’t read your post she will think you are not proud of her.
I have stayed up all night attending the shiurim at my shul, for many years. Some years I am so tired from yom tov preps, that I can only make it to 2 AM, but this year BE”H I want to especially try to stay up and learn all night, in the zechus of a relative of mine who is ill and beginning treatment. Women also received the Torah at Har Sinai, and we are not really “shteiging,” we are fulfilling the reenactment of Kabbalas HaTorah and our commitment to Torah.
No.
Women are part of klal yisroel, why shouldn’t they have a chelek in Talmud Torah? It’s everyone’s yerushah.
rationalfrummie, the gemora says a woman’s chelek in talmud Torah comes from her encouraging her husband and sons to learn Torah.
Just a mem, you are technically correct, but methinks quoting “Nashim be’mai zachyan..” (apologies for awkward transliteration) in this venue will result in you being handed your head on a platter.
Just pointing it out, before you get into deeper trouble…
“head on a platter”
That idiom is from a Christian source; we really should not use it here. However, your point is well taken; we do not discourage women from learning Torah in our times.
Just a member: the Chida says that if a woman wants to learn, she is allowed to, and its a mitzvah to teach her. The chafetz Chaim wrote that because times had changed, women should now learn Torah and Mussar to combat the evils of assimilation and remain frum. This is the shitah of the heilige chofetz Chaim!!
huh? normative halacha is that woman shouldnt learn Torah shebal peh. so nowadays, bdieved, we make some exceptions and allow certain things due to the shas hadchak situation we are in. but dont make a lchatchila out of a bdieved! dont add things that shouldnt be added, and under normal circumstances shouldnt be done altogether.
just a member- ultimateskier said to learn megilas rus. That’s in ksuvim- torah shebichsav. Totally lichatchila.
This is not a feminist issue. It’s a Jewish issue. Although women have no obligation to learn there is no doubt in my mind that those who do turn out to be the leading teachers and the strongholds of families that remain Jewish al-pi HaDerech. The women I’ve most respected since coming to a Torah way of life are those who could have been rebbeim in their own right had they been men. They are tzidkonios and they bring others to emulate them.
gamanit, she also added to read it with some meforshim, which is not Torah shebicsav. anyways, if it was only rus it would be okay, but the idea of staying up shvuos night is traditionally a male practice.
I would do it for sure if I weren’t so exhausted from school. I’m still going to try. Probably Rus, like ultimateskier said.
Meforshim doesn’t necessarily equal assur torah she’ba’al peh- should girls not be learning Rashi? I happen to love learning meforshim be’iyun- there’s a satisfaction to coming to the answer on my own or bechavrusa. In a way, it’s a bit like what I imagine learning Gemara to possibly be like. It’s awesome.
just a member, I’m confident that ultimateskier will be contacting you to confirm that her learning choices are okay… 🙂 And why not stay up the whole night?
Look, honestly, women who are doing this aren’t trying to be “feminist” (whatever that may mean in a frum context)- they just want to learn because they think the men are on to a good thing, and it’s a very neutral thing- not a man’s mitzvah at all. it’s limud Torah, which is considered MORE THAN FINE in this day and age.
You know what- I should totally make a Shavuos learning party in my neighborhood. And make extra cheesecake :).
wiy- curious how long it takes you to say the whole tehillim
staying up the whole night learning traditionally was only done by the greatest torah scholars. see the shlah’s description of the base yosef’s shavuos night. it is an american thing that so many men stay up and an even newer american thing that women do as well. no one has a problem with women learning its just interseting that this is one of the few mitzvos that are more relegated to the males and this is where some females choose to be active in. why not take something in which you are actually chayav and work on being mehadar it? as for the chafetz chaim alleged quote that women should indeed learn more to stay on the derech that would be as much as would be needed
“dont make a lchatchila out of a bdieved!”
Rav Soloveitchik z’tz’l insisted that it wasn’t just a l’chatchila, it was a chiyuv for all!
“staying up the whole night learning traditionally was only done by the greatest torah scholars”
And even then, only from the time of the later rishonim after the arrival of coffee to the Jewish world. 😉
SaysMe
I can say “the whole Tehillim” in less than a second. I dont really know its been a long time since I said the whole Tehillim in one go and Im no speed reader. I hope I can say it in under 3 hours.
Feminist or no?
It depends on the intention of the one doing it.
i can’t. takes me much longer than that
If women are staying up all night, who is going to have the energy to make yontiff at home, as far as cooking, etc. goes?
Saysme
The speed isn’t what’s important. The main thing is to know what you are saying.
wiy- was asking re”Or just say the whole Tehillim and then go to sleep”. Last year, tehillim took me 4.5hours because i did most with reading along the English. It’s a full-night endeavor for me, though i know i’m not a fast reader
My wife stays up all night cleaning the house to make sure there is no milchigs at all. Milchigs is assur on yontiff even if only a ????.
Women are part of klal yisroel, why shouldn’t they have a chelek in Talmud Torah? It’s everyone’s yerushah.
Well, since that squarely conflicts with chazal, it is wrong. However, your logic is compelling so you are left with several options:
1. They aren’t part of klal yisroel
2. Only some people in klal yisroel get the torah
3. They get their chelek through some other means (the men in their lives).
I suppose if you think choice 3 (which the gemara says) is impossible, you are left with only choices one or two. So you pick.
2.
popa, you picked 2?
no, that 2 on the bottom is there by mistake.
Popa: I find it hilarious that you’re making excuses to prevent Jews from learning Torah. Why are you so opposed to it? If 50% of klal yisroel listened to you, and didn’t learn Torah, Yiddishkeit would be weak and deeply lacking.
WIY: I say edit: sefer Tehillim during the day. Only a little bit at night.
If 50% of klal yisroel listened to you, and didn’t learn Torah, Yiddishkeit would be weak and deeply lacking.
That sounds perfect actually. And exactly what the gemara says.
Ask your wife to explain it to you.
“Milchigs is assur on yontiff even if only a ????.”
I have been trying to convince my wife of this for years. Do you have any good sources?
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/are-women-reallyjewish
I had embedded that link in my post, in the words, Popa already picked #1.
…. So you want yiddishkeit to be deeply lacking and weak, because in your world 1/2 of all frum Jews will have no by-the-book knowledge of Halacha.
Reb donniel, if the men are up all night, who is going to be there for davening with kavonnah and energy, and who is going to be there to honor the halacha OC 529 (tav kuf kaf tet)?
but this year BE”H I want to especially try to stay up and learn all night, in the zechus of a relative of mine who is ill and beginning treatment.
oomis:- How about attributing your special effort to staying up all nite this year, simply because this Shovu’os is a Silver Jubilee, being exactly 33&1/4 centuries since Mattan Toroh [Not factoring in if off by a day being an intricate topic].
Some years I am so tired from yom tov preps, that I can only make it to 2 AM
How about last year oomis? when Erev Shovu’os was on a Shabbos.
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